[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Kaitzilla]

Unfortunately we can only build explorer.

How about canal doing a 3-pop whip a treb for max overflow after forge?

Canal City draft on T145 goes to 8 pop, 3-pop whip forge goes to 5 pop, no way to 3-pop treb.
It gets drafted again T148.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I don't think so..assuming we plan to bring him into the war after Eng.

Testing shows that the embargo bought from Peter against SB cancels open borders between Peter and SB, cancels trade between them, and causes Sitting Bull to give -1 diplo to Peter and -1 diplo to us.

I think they can still trade techs and sign open borders and trade resources again right away, but I'm not certain how trade embargos work precisely.

 

[Kaitzilla]

How best to handle Sitting Bull's capital?
It is on a hill with 60% culture defenses and a Castle.

We will have 132 left after a city revolt in Poverty Point T147.

If the Spy survives the return to our capital, send it back down T148 to try and blow up SBs Walls for 300.
We can bombard down his 60% easily without walls or castle slowing us down.

If it fails, probably wait for Frigates and pillage the countryside.
Target the 3 southern cities.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Argg, we need siege from somewhere!

I am haplessly mapless right now. I like a cat from science, teleporting his scout to the wheat area, placing our great people so that the scout can only enter our borders in one direction after DOW and then attacking with our cat for two XP. Possible?

 

[LowtherCastle]

How best to handle Sitting Bull's capital?
It is on a hill with 60% culture defenses and a Castle.

We will have 132 left after a city revolt in Poverty Point T147.

If the Spy survives the return to our capital, send it back down T148 to try and blow up SBs Walls for 300.
We can bombard down his 60% easily without walls or castle slowing us down.

If it fails, probably wait for Frigates and pillage the countryside.
Target the 3 southern cities.

Keep eps on SB for now. After PP, put the spy in Cahokia until 50%, pillage, attack, harvest xp elsewhere, but time the Cahokia attack to the 50% spy and enough eps.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I am haplessly mapless right now. I like a cat from science, teleporting his scout to the wheat area, placing our great people so that the scout can only enter our borders in one direction after DOW and then attacking with our cat for two XP. Possible?

Maybe we only need 1 accuracy cat for now. Plan a revolt for Cahokia. The cat can become accuracy along its fastest path to battle. ( the wheat area is lacking roads, right? Take forever for our scout to arrive?)

 

[WastinTime]

Keep eps on SB for now. After PP, put the spy in Cahokia until 50%, pillage, attack, harvest xp elsewhere, but time the Cahokia attack to the 50% spy and enough eps.

Nah, Once an AI is down to 1 city, you want to steal all their gold. We can just pillage and slowly beat down the capital. Walls are meaningless to Muskets. Remember, we can get shared war bonus by dragging this war out.
Important: don't have too many units in his BFC. That way he should keep making workers, settlers, or buildings, etc. instead of a stack of longbows.

I would not even bother with a cat. Just wait for Frigates. Clear out and let him build some cottages. We can attack when he sends out his settler+escort and leaves the captial under-defended.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Nah, Once an AI is down to 1 city, you want to steal all their gold. We can just pillage and slowly beat down the capital. Walls are meaningless to Muskets. Remember, we can get shared war bonus by dragging this war out.
Important: don't have too many units in his BFC. That way he should keep making workers, settlers, or buildings, etc. instead of a stack of longbows.

I would not even bother with a cat. Just wait for Frigates. Clear out and let him build some cottages. We can attack when he sends out his settler+escort and leaves the captial under-defended.

I’m okay with that too. We definitely need to maintain a perspective on the speed of our research advance.

One thing I’ve never understood is how the AIs get their gold. How do they accumulate it? If we pillage Cahokia back to the Stone Age, how can he accumulate gold for us to steal?

 

[WastinTime]

Wow, we only have 12 1/2 techs to go after this turnset
I was trying to figure out when we drop slavery for caste. Probably around T180, or right after Communism so we can make our final whip IntelAgency. Some late things need to be built without whipping.

The order is pretty obvious other than a possible debate after Astron

(assuming free drama)
Astron
Steel (drydock)
MilTrad (because we need to do a couple whip OF into WestPoint)
Communism (so we can whip IntelAgency and switch to caste)
Refrig (water move +1)
Physics (beeline Radio)
Electr (beeline Radio)
Radio (Eiffel, Clams hits the workshops hard)
RepParts
Steam
AssLine
Industrialism (IndPark, easy build for Cows)
SuperCond (chop NPark for Lab, game over)

 

[LowtherCastle]

Eventually Cahokia will shrink in population. That will cost us capture gold. Stealing gold requires a spy and and all that. What’s the optimal solution?

 

[WastinTime]

I’m okay with that too. We definitely need to maintain a perspective on the speed of our research advance.

One thing I’ve never understood is how the AIs get their gold. How do they accumulate it? If we pillage Cahokia back to the Stone Age, how can he accumulate gold for us to steal?

It might not be much. Ideally, we woulda mowed down all his cities before longbows, so he would have hardly any units to upgrade. But he will probably spend most of his bank. We'll see how that works out.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Astron

For a minute there I was like, what is Astron?

 

[WastinTime]

Eventually Cahokia will shrink in population. That will cost us capture gold. Stealing gold requires a spy and and all that. What’s the optimal solution?

We leave the Rice(s) so we have the option cease fire and get it if we need 1 more resource (sometimes 1 more is meaningless due to rounding)
That should keep the pop up, but he will probably whip it eventually.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I am haplessly mapless right now. I like a cat from science, teleporting his scout to the wheat area, placing our great people so that the scout can only enter our borders in one direction after DOW and then attacking with our cat for two XP. Possible?

Yes, it does appear this solution lines up with 3 forest preserves, early 3xp catapult, and 3-pop National Park whip.

 

[Kaitzilla]

PPP
T145 - T147​

Continuing from LowtherCastle's turnset
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-home-slices.657330/page-194#post-15843289

Empire Screenshots

Spoiler :

Civic Changes
T148 - After final 3 drafts, change to Bureaucracy, Slavery, Free Market, and Organized Religion

Techs
T145 - Printing Press
T146 - Corporation
T147 - Printing Press
T148 - Chemistry (1 bulb)
T149 - Scientific Method (2 bulbs) // Will lose monastery bonus and Parthenon bonus
T150 - Biology (3 bulbs) -> get Calender in trade -> 1 bulb for Astro after discussing with team about Peter's tech choices
T151 - Liberalism
T152 - Liberalism
T153 - Liberalism
T154 - Liberalism (Choose Medicine as free tech)
T155 - ??? next turnset's choice (Using Great Merchant, Sushi founded in Silver City on T155!)

Workers
Cowboy (Starts 1S of Silver City)
T145 - Road Deer and Stop!
T146 - Move to forest 3S2W of Silver City
T147 - T149 Chop forest (+20) (Combined with T148 Forge Whip, this chop stored in Wealth will give us a 2-pop Sushi Exec whip on T156)
Cold whipping a Sushi Exec. immediately with a Forge is still a 5-pop whip
T150 - Board Galley 2S of Silver City and sail to Cow City fort
T151 - Exit Galley at fort 3W1N of Cow City and move to 1E of Cow City
T152 - T153 Preserve forest 2S1E of Science City
T154 - T155 Preserve forest 1N2E of Science City

Shepherd (Starts 3W1N of Cow City)
T145 - T146 Fort 3W1N of Cow City
T147 - T148 Road fur camp 2W1N of Cow City (this road serves a lot of purposes)
T149 - Workshop river tundra 2E of Cow City and Stop!
T150 - Move to jungle 2W1S of Science City
T151 - T154 Preserve Jungle (Yes, still 8 turns just like forest)
T155 - Preserve Forest 2S1E of Science City

Rex (Starts 3W1N of Cow City)
T145 - T146 Fort 3W1N of Cow City
T147 - Road fur camp 2W1N of Cow City
T148 - Workshop river tundra 2E of Cow City and Stop!
T149 - Move to jungle 2W1S of Science City
T150 - T153 Preserve Jungle
T154 - T155 Preserve Forest 2S1E of Science City

Phillip (Starts 3N1E of Science City)
T145 - Move to forest 1N2E of Science City
T146 - T148 Road forest
T149 - Move to forest 4N2E of Science City
T150 - 151 Chop forest
T152 - Move to roaded fur 2N3E of Science City
T153 - T155 Preserve forest 1N2E of Science City

Joan Dark (Starts 2N1E of Clam City)
T145 - Move to hill 1N3E of Science City
T146 - T148 Road fur 2N3E of Science City
T149 - Move to forest 4N2E of Science City
T150 - T151 Chop forest
T152 - Move to roaded fur 2N3E of Science City
T153 - T155 Preserve forest 1N2E of Science City

Heretic (Starts 1N2E of Clam City)
T145 - T146 Road 1N2E of Clam City
T147 - Finish workshop 2N of Clam City
T148 - Using Engineering movement bonus, move to forest 4S of Science City
T149 - T152 Chop forest
T153 - T155 Preserve forest 2S1E of Science City

Draft Schedule

Spoiler :

Here is the look at drafting.
The city order and the 5 cities getting +3 from Representation are kind of hard to juggle as the populations drop.

Cow City can grow 1 pop at any time and regain the +3 Rep. bonus.

The anger decay is:
Science City has no anger to decay.

Canal City loses its final whip anger in 1 turn.
Whale City loses whip anger in 4 turns and then another whip anger 10 turns after that.
Silvery City loses its final whip anger in 2 turns.

Clam City loses its draft anger in 3 turns.
Cow City loses draft anger in 3 turns.
Profit City loses draft anger in 3 turns and then another draft anger 10 turns after that.

If Canal drafts twice, it will lose the Rep. bonus and have 1 angry citizen.

T145 - Canal City
T147 - Clam City, Cow City, Silver City
T148 - Whale City, Profit City, Canal City

Cities
Science City
T145 - Catapult (goes to 33/50 due to +7 overflow from earlier); Rice, Sheep, Horse, Wine, Riverplainsfarm, x2Gem Mine, x2Riverplainscottage, Scientist
T146 - Forge (goes to 26/120); Rice, Sheep, Horse, Wine, Riverplainsfarm, x2Gem Mine, x2Riverplainscottage, Scientist
T147 - Catapult (goes to 59/50); Rice, Sheep, Horse, Wine, Riverplainsfarm, x2Gem Mine, x2Riverplainscottage, Scientist
T148 - Forge; (goes to 87/120) Rice, Sheep, Horse, Wine, Riverplainsfarm, x2Gem Mine, x2Riverplainscottage
T149 - Forge; (goes to 115/120) Rice, Sheep, Horse, Wine, Riverplainsfarm, x2Gem Mine, x2Riverplainscottage
T150 - Forge; (goes to 143/120) Rice, Sheep, Horse, Wine, Riverplainsfarm, x2Gem Mine, x2Riverplainscottage
T151 - National Park (+29 from chops land, goes to (114/300); Rice, Sheep, Horse, Wine, Riverplainsfarm, x2Gem Mine, Riverplainscottage, Engineer (Biology Online! +1 from farms)
T152 - National Park (goes to 148/300); Rice, Sheep, Horse, Wine, Riverplainsfarm, x2Gem Mine, Riverplainscottage, Engineer
T153 - National Park (goes to 180/300); Rice, Sheep, Horse, Wine, Riverplainsfarm, x2Gem Mine, x2Riverplainscottage
T154 - 3-pop whip National Park; Rice, Sheep, Riverplainsfarm or Horse?, Wine, x2Gem Mine (Yes, the city can whip at precisely 180/300)
T155 - Courthouse; Rice, Sheep, Wine, x2Gem Mine (Workers will have all 3 forest preserves done by this turn )

Cow City
T145 - T146 Wealth; Crab, Cow, Deer, x2Riverplainsfarm, x3Fur, Scientist

Canal City
T145 - Forge; Crab, x2Clam, x6 Scientist (Draft)
T146 - Forge; Crab, x2Clam, x6 Scientist

Clam City
T145 - T146 Forge; x2Clam, x2Coast, x6 Scientist (Starve -2 each turn)

Profit City
T145 - T146 Wealth; Crab, Whale, x5 Coast, Scientist

Silver City
T145 - Forge; x2 Crab, Clam, x10 Scientist (Starve -7 from 16 bin)
T146 - Forge; x2 Crab, Clam, Deer , x9 Scientist (Starve -3 from 9 bin) (100% Great Scientist will be born in between turns!)
T147 - Forge; x2 Crab, Clam, Deer , x8 Scientist (Starve -3 from 6 bin) (Draft)

Whale City
T145 - T147 Forge; x2 Crab, Clam, x9 Scientist (89% Great Scientist will be born in between turns)

Units

Spoiler :

T148 Catapult vs. Scout Plan
Testing indicates that the Sitting Bull Scout will teleport to 3 different tiles.
If any of our units are standing on those tiles when we DOW, they get pushed out of the way to make room for Sitting Bull's Scout.
Scouts can not capture great people or workers.

Spoiler :

Using our Workers and the new road going northeast of our capital T148, our Catapult can go up the road T148 and hammer that Sitting Bull Scout.
Depending on the 3 places it teleports, a wall of units will be constructed on T146 2N of horse, 3N of horse, or 4N of horse.
If the scout teleports near the wheat, the wall will be Worker, Warrior, Great Scientist, Scout all north of Rice. (2N,3N,4N, and 5N)
No matter what happens, the scout should funnel south towards our roads or Clam City.
Our Catapult will pounce on the scout when it comes out of Science City T148 and get that 1xp and the Accuracy Promotion!
The low-odds teleport to the southwest corner will require Great Scientists to stand on our gems.

Sitting Bull War
Caravel 1
T145 - Picks up Great Scientist, drops him in Canal City, then sails to 1S1E of Canal City
This Great Scientist goes west T146 to help with the scout funnel 1 turn, before bulbing on T148.
T146 - Covers the 2 Galleys 1W of Poverty Point.

Galley
T145 - Drops off Chariot on wine near Poverty Point, sail to 1E of Canal City to pick up drafted Musket, sail back to 1N of wine
T146 - After DOW, sail to 1W of Poverty Point, drop off 2 Muskets 1S of Poverty Point, then sail to 2S2E of Canal City

Galley + Galley
T145 - Sail to 1S1E of Canal City
T146 - After DOW, sail to 1W of Poverty Point, drop off 3 Muskets and 1 Chariot 1S of Poverty Point.

Chariot
T146 - After DOW, move from wine to 1S of Poverty Point.
No point in pillaging and then getting picked off by Dog Warrior from capital.

Spy
T145 - T146 Stays in Poverty Point building bonus.
T147 - Discuss with team

Trireme
T145 - Stays in place keeping an eye on SB capital.
T146 - After DOW, blockades Sitting Bull 3W1N of his capital.

Other Places
Caravel 2
T145 - Sail southwest
T146 - Drop off Great Scientist in Aachen
T147 - Sail towards Cow City and kill that Sitting Bull workboat!
Great Scientist walks west to make contact with France T150

Galley 10W of Whale City
T145 - T146 Sail east to pick up Worker and then sail to fort west of Cow City

Great Merchant in Moscow
T145 - T148 Wait for Harbor

Diplomacy
T145 - All of our on Sitting Bull as long as Peter is just putting +1 on us.
T145 - Trade Nationalism to Sitting Bull for 30 + map
Trade Metal Casting to Sitting Bull for switch to Nationhood
Gift Sitting Bull Currency so he can't trade Nationalism to Peter for Machinery + Currency + Fuedalism (1 turn)
T146 - If Holy Roman Empire still 744 and Arabian Empire 754, trade Machinery to Sitting Bull for + map to get him higher on the scoreboard.
After Machinery, Sitting Bull should be at 740 points and if necessary, we can trade him Music to go up to 758 points.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-home-slices.657330/page-207#post-15849983

T146 - If Peter is Cautious with Sitting Bull and SB has 1 turn left to tech Feudalism, DOW Sitting Bull!

Don't accept any Calendar gift!

All Peter demands will be accepted.
All Sitting Bull demands will be denied
All new world AI demands will be accepted? Hmm, I'll discuss with team if they make a demand.

Check Every Turn
Record values
Screenshot Sitting Bull's buildings and cities
Did Moscow build a Harbor yet?
A new fist appears on scoreboard (Arabs might hit us 40 turns later if they target us and get Astro some day)
Did Peter spend more than 1 against us? If so adjust slider.
Save at start and end of turn

Stopping Point
T146 - If Holy Roman Empire went higher than 744 or Arabs went higher than 754 points
T146 - If Sitting Bull got Feudalism by paying Peter or begging
T146 - If Music + Machinery to Sitting Bull did not get Peter Cautious with him.
T147 - Start of T147 is reached.
Anything unexpected happens.

**Edit**
100% Done!

 

[WastinTime]

farm cows tundra? or workshop. Cows needs to build IW.

I can't wait to see this cat and mouse (cat and scout) chase I have a feeling it will get out of control.

 

[Mitchum]

I'm not sure that we should jump through hoops for a single promotion. It sounds like a lot of trouble and possible lose of worker turns?

 

[WastinTime]

I'm not sure that we should jump through hoops for a single promotion. It sounds like a lot of trouble and possible lose of worker turns?

That was my first thought too, but Kait looks like he's having so much fun, so I didn't wanna pee in his Cheerios. I'm fine with either way. Preserves are all that really matter and we can't start those.
We have to start playing tho, it's been a week with no turns; Only about 8 weeks to go, right? And I hate rushing the end, so let's think 6 weeks. One turnset every 5 days.

 

[Mitchum]

Agreed, Kait was going to play 2 turns at a time so we only have to really approve the next 2 turns... I'm anxious to see how the DoW goes.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I'm not sure that we should jump through hoops for a single promotion. It sounds like a lot of trouble and possible lose of worker turns?

Nope, the workers were going to do that road anyway.
All the workers needing the chops to go into capital T151 and get 3 forest preserves done by T155 made very harsh demands.

The Scout funnel it just weird luck.
It won't last very long either due to Great Scientists bulbing.
If things seem out of hand, Chariot will finish Scout fast.

I need some help with the draft table.
As things currently stand, I think Cow City will have 1 angry citizen 1 turn on T147?
It seems due to city order and population I always have 1 angry citizen somewhere for 1 turn.

I think 1 angry citizen in Cow City might be for the best T147.
Cow City can grow back to Size 8 by T148 and take away the Rep. happiness from Clam City.
But then Clam Cities' previous +3 anger from drafting will vanish T148 so it will be ok.
Won't need to whip forges anyway I don't think until T150 or later.

farm cows tundra? or workshop. Cows needs to build IW.

Ok, workshop then, not farm.