[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

OMG. So good and yet a little bad. We should count our blessings tho. 3000+ free beakers. It could have been GunP, Constit, or worst case: Div Right.
So the GS will bulb like 1900+ for Electricity....some day.

We probably should do Constitution trade soon and bribe REP instead of Free Market 165. Then free market 175.
Maybe we can get Astro 174? Or he might bulb it

100% MT then?

We don’t have to wait till T165 to flip Peter to Rep, do we? That’s just the latest to prevent him flipping to Merc.

 

[WastinTime]

We don’t have to wait till T165 to flip Peter to Rep, do we? That’s just the latest to prevent him flipping to Merc.

Maybe, but we're still hoping for a harbor, so we have to wait another turn or two, then we might as well do 165 to buy the most time. if we do it now, then he gets another anarchy turn 171.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Whoa, my namesake survived and was recaptured!
Captured Workers get deleted all the time, so not sure how.


Great work Mitchum, bagged a 2nd Scout and spread Sushi to all but 1 city.
I know the city overflows must have been a pain.
Moscow too!

Kind of hilarious that our war with Sitting Bull turned into Scout Punching Bag Ultra™
How absurd.


Russia has a good chance to pop a Great Scientist thanks to building the Great Library 18 turns ago.
He went through 2 turns? of Anarchy, so I expect a Great Person by T171 at the very latest.
Hopefully a lot sooner if Peter ran a Scientist in Moscow.

Yes, I agree with Representation bribe for Peter on T165. (Get us Drama!)
He can hardly switch to Democracy, and the tech boost should be noticeable.
Hopefully he gets Astro done before T175.


Uh, attack with the 0xp Caravel?
80% odds I think.
In the worse-case loss, our 1xp Caravel can finish things off and get Combat 1.

The healing Chariot should probably return to Canal City to heal up Caravels.
Any ship we put in a city with healing Chariot will heal 30%hp per turn instead of 15%.

 

[WastinTime]

PPP T161-171

Techs
T161-T165 100% Military Tradition
T166+ Steel

Workers
Cowboy
(notice how I shuffled workers so Cowboy goes back home to CowsCity)
T162 - T163 Preserve forest at Science-SE
T164 -`166 finish Workshop Cows-2E
T167+ Cow's forest preserve ?
T167 - 169 finish workshop at Cows-2N

Shepherd
T161 Road forest at Science-SE
T162 - Move to forest at Science-2E
T163 - T166 - Preserve forest at Science-2E
T167 - help with Clams' preserve.

Rex
T161 -T162 Preserve forest at Science-SE (after Shepherd has finished the road)
T163 - Move to forest at Science-2E
T164 - T166 - Preserve forest at Science-2E
T167 - pChop
T168 -172 Preserve 3N1E forest

Heretic
T161 -T162 Preserve forest at Science-SE (after Shepherd has finished the road)
T163 - Move to forest at Science-2E
T164 - T166 - Preserve forest at Science-2E
T167 - pChop
T168 -172 Preserve 3N1E forest

Phillip
T161 -T162 Preserve forest at Science-SE (after Shepherd has finished the road)
T163-164 cottage oil
T165-166 pWorkshop Cows-2E, STOP
T167 goto fort, board
T169-173 Preserve Whales' forest
T174-180 Preserve Silver's forest

T181+ An ice-mine for silver? and preserve Silver's other forest (for happy)

Joan Dark
T161 -T162 Preserve forest at Science-SE (after Shepherd has finished the road)
T163-164 cottage oil
T165-166 pWorkshop Cows-2E, STOP
T167 goto fort, board
T169-173 Preserve Whales' forest
T174-180 Preserve Silver's forest
T181+ An ice-mine for silver? and preserve Silver's other forest (for happy)

Captured workers
T167? Preserve Clams's forest

Cities

General thoughts:
With CH and execs off the todo lists, cities should grow to work their food tiles and scientists/engineer, fill up coastal tiles only to whip them away.
Exception: Silver's market and grocer are too strong to delay long and we need the merch slots.
Question: do we have sooo much food we should work scientists/engineer first and not things like Deer? We're gonna be growing into anger, right?

Science
T161- Chichen
T162 Wealth (to get to size 11 for 1500g)
T163-164 5xp cat
T165-167 just one exec (whales takes over the other 2) This one sails on a caravel east from SB area to Louis.

(If we had copper, I'd do cathedral for Sankore +6 and priest slots, but copper is virtually impossible.)
When Astro: Observatory
5xp cat?
T170 (size 13) Is there TR boost at size 14? should we finish the cottage replacing farm now or at size 14? or never?

Cow
T161 whip exec
T162+ temple
harbor
IWorks

Canal
T161 whip ch
T162-165 wealth (to save maxOF for WestPoint)
T166 West Point
T167 temple
whip temple? No, I think grow city for a while and work 2 sci + eng
harbor

Silver
(Get to size 10 first and then whip, so more specialists are worked)
I'm not sure we want to whip this city beyond grocer, market, drydock, and maybe observatory.
That would carry anger past T220.
It can do 9hpt with engineer and fur. More with citizens?
T161 - Grocer, fur (no deer?) sci
T162 - Grocer, 2sci
T163- Market, 2sci
T164 Market, nofur, eng, 2sci
T165 whip Market
T166 temple, work 2 merch from now on (and 2 sci?)
T167 finish Temple
T168 whip grocer
T169 Harbor, work 4 merch from now on (and 2 sci?)
barracks, Dun, HE, Drydock
whip observatory? supermarket?

Profit
Gets Sushi T163
T161 Courthouse
T162 whip ch
T163 OF into ??
T164-166 Temple prep
T167-169 Harbor prep
When it makes sense (near happy cap?), 2whip temple & Harbor
into ConfuAcademy--no copper coming so git er done.
Aqueduct
?Observatory?
?University?
?Hospital?
?some day...grocer + Supermarket?

Whales
(This city has no regard for anger, so it should convert as much food as possible to hammers. i.e. whip. I'm even gonna 1-whip the temple eventually and the barracks. OF goes into Globe and HE)
T161 Temple, Theater, University, harbor, barracks, Globe, aqueduct, hospital
T170-ish start 2 execs for galleon ride to Bis and Sal
+ horse archer escort?
When astro: observatory

Clams
T161 Bank (max 19/200)
T??? prep Temple (34/80)
T??? prep Harbor (34/80)
T??? Market (max 14/150)
whip OF into WallSt. (bank 1st. then temple, then harbor, then market)
Future: UN

Sitting Bull War

T161 Attack Tri with 0xp caravel for 2xp
T161 Tri move 3SE and T162 Blockade
T161 Caravel: kill workboat, T162 cover Tri

Muskets try to pick off longbows between Caho and Mound
3rd Musket can join them and the healer can join when needed.

Galleys try to make it north. Pickup 2 muskets and 20xp cat and 5xp cat ~T167-169.
Or, might take 2 cats to MoundCity and 2 units to SnakeTown.
If there's a lull in the trireme action, I'll try to sneak a caravel up there for a peek.

Cats
T168 board if at 20xp (promote so we can do WestPoint)
T170 unload at MoundCity
T171-172 bombard
Mound City razed T172-ish

After 20xp, Kill the scout on Clams' oil tile and workshop it.


Units

GS
161 move to Science
162 Academy

Great Merchant in Moscow
163? Trade Mission for 1500 or 1300
No! Science is size 11 on T166 for 1500

Galley 2
Get exec to Profit T163 when musket boards. Drop musket 164 on the way back to Cows' fort
T167 goto Fort-2N1W
T168 take 2 workers, unload in Silver 169
T169-171 goto Whales to become a galleon some day for 2 execs (and 1 musket.? or a horse archer escort for execs...also a good pillager)
Then to Profit to get muskets for HRE (around T180)

2nd Great General
Settle in Science

Diplomacy

As long as Peter is just putting +1 on us.
Eps back to SB for steal or whatever

T161 Bis gets Guilds for 10+map
(soon Banking and PPress)

T161 Louis gets Calendar for hopefully 80 + map

T164 or sooner, Peter gets Economics for Drama + gold + map
T165 – Bribe Peter into Free Market + gold + map for Liberalism (he will need Economics before then)
T164 or sooner, Peter gets Constitution for Drama + gold + map
T165 – Bribe Peter into Representation + gold + map for Liberalism

T165 Beg 10 from Bis to see if that will cancel his war plans.
T165 Bribe Bismarck to War on Charley with Banking and gift him whatever he's teching so he can pick RepParts.

On the turn Peter gets Astronomy, trade Sci Method for Astro (so he can pick Communism)

T175 – Bribe Peter into Free Market + gold + map for ??? (to avoid Merc)

All Russia + France + Arab + German demands will be accepted unless it is for civic switch or a bunch of
All Sitting Bull + HRE demands will be denied
All AI demands will be discussed with team if possible

Check Every Turn
Record values
Did Moscow build a Harbor yet?
A new fist appears on scoreboard (Arabs might hit us 40 turns later if they target us and get Astro some day)
Did Peter spend more than 1 against us? If so adjust slider.
Did Peter spawn a great person?
Did Peter get crabs? re-negotiate trades.

Stopping Point
Anything unexpected happens
Start of 171 (or maybe capture of MoundCity )

 

[Kaitzilla]

If our capital had a Bank, it would generate +33 per turn right now.

 

[LowtherCastle]

PPP T161-171 draft

Techs
100% Military Tradition
Steel

Workers
Cowboy
T162 - T163 Preserve forest at Science-SE
T164 - pWorkshop Cows-2E, STOP
T165 - 169 (after road completes) help with Cow's forest preserve

Shepherd
T161 Road forest at Science-SE
T162 - Move to forest at Science-2E
T163 - T166 - Preserve forest at Science-2E
T167 - help with Clams' preserve.

Rex
T161 -T162 Preserve forest at Science-SE (after Shepherd has finished the road)
T163 - Move to forest at Science-2E
T164 - T166 - Preserve forest at Science-2E
T167 - pChop
T168 -172 Preserve 3N1E forest

Heretic
T161 -T162 Preserve forest at Science-SE (after Shepherd has finished the road)
T163 - Move to forest at Science-2E
T164 - T166 - Preserve forest at Science-2E
T167 - pChop
T168 -172 Preserve 3N1E forest

Phillip
T161 -T162 Preserve forest at Science-SE (after Shepherd has finished the road)
T163 pWorkshop Cows-2E, STOP
T164 -167 road Cow's forest & preserve
T168 board
T169-173 Preserve Whales' forest
T174-180 Preserve Silver's forest

Joan Dark
T161 -T162 Preserve forest at Science-SE (after Shepherd has finished the road)
T163- pWorkshop Cows-2E, and STOP
T164 -167 road Cow's forest & preserve
T168 board
T169-173 Preserve Whales' forest
T174-180 Preserve Silver's forest

Captured workers
T167? Preserve Clams's forest

Cities
Science
T161-T162 Wealth (to try to get a harbor from Moscow)
163+ foreign execs (3)
(If we had copper, I'd do cathedral for Sankore +5 and priest slots, but copper is virtually impossible.)
When Astro: Observatory
5xp cat?

Cow
T161 whip exec
temple, harbor
IWorks

Canal
Gets Sushi T161
temple, harbor
WestPoint

Silver
T161 Market
grocer, temple, harbor
barracks, Dun, HE, Drydock

Profit
Gets Sushi T163
T161 Courthouse
T162 whip ch
T163 OF into ConfuAcademy--no copper coming so git er done.
T164-166 Temple
T167 whip temple
T168 ConfuAcademy
T169 Harbor
whip harbor into ConfuAcademy

Whales
T161 Temple, harbor, Theater, Globe

Clams
T161 Bank
Future: temple, harbor, Wall St., market, UN

Sitting Bull War

TBD

Units

Great Merchant in Moscow
163 Trade Mission for 1500 or 1300

Galley 2
Get exec to Profit T163 when musket boards. Drop musket 164 on the way back to Cows' fort
T167 goto Fort-2N1W
T168 take 2 workers, unload in Silver 169
T169 goto Profit to become a galleon some day

2nd Great General
Settle in Science

Diplomacy

All of our on Bismarck as long as Peter is just putting +1 on us.
Once we know his tech, eps back to SB for steal or whatever

T164 or sooner, Peter gets Economics for Drama + gold + map
T165 – Bribe Peter into Free Market + gold + map for Liberalism (he will need Economics before then)
T164 or sooner, Peter gets Constitution for Drama + gold + map
T165 – Bribe Peter into Representation + gold + map for Liberalism

On the turn Peter gets Astronomy, trade Sci Method for Astro (so he can pick Communism)

T175 – Bribe Peter into Free Market + gold + map for ??? (to avoid Merc)

All Russia + France + Arab + German demands will be accepted unless it is for civic switch or a bunch of
All Sitting Bull + HRE demands will be denied
All AI demands will be discussed with team if possible

Check Every Turn
Record values
Did Moscow build a Harbor yet?
A new fist appears on scoreboard (Arabs might hit us 40 turns later if they target us and get Astro some day)
Did Peter spend more than 1 against us? If so adjust slider.
Did Peter spawn a great person?

Stopping Point
Anything unexpected happens
Start of 171

Light 46.7% green.

 

[WastinTime]

Big picture decisions:

1) try for failgold? or forget it and just stabilize the economy? I don't think it's worth the anger and pop loss (and useless barracks) to try to do HE. Unless maybe later if we're growing into angry citizens.

2a) Whip buildings quickly at lower food? get them done and build wealth to stabilize economy?
2b) Grow cities to happy cap and work lots of specialists to keep research up. Whip later.
I think 2b is the way to go. Getting a temple 10t sooner is only 30.

 

[Mitchum]

Just checking in quickly to thank WT for helping during my turnset. A huge help as always.

Back to movie night!

 

[WastinTime]

Science will be size 11 on T166, so that's 1500 We will have to drag this out for 4 turns at least. We may need 1 more turn of 0% but so what if MT is delayed.
It will be mostly 100%, probably some extra build wealth.

Does the harbor make it 1700?

T170 we will be size 13 for 1700. or 1900?

 

[WastinTime]

I'm gonna cottage the science oil tile now that it can't get regrowth. Other suggestions?

 

[Mitchum]

If our capital had a Bank, it would generate +33 per turn right now.

Hopefully we won't be running 0% slider too many more turns though.

 

[Mitchum]

Should we attack SB's trireme or split our caravels and defend IBT? Will SB attack a caravel?

 

[Mitchum]

What is our projected victory date so we can do the break even analysis on all of these girly temple builds?

 

[WastinTime]

What is our projected victory date so we can do the break even analysis on all of these girly temple builds?

Temples are required, so there's no breakeven. The sooner the better, but you have a point for stuff like maybe observatories. I don't know the end date. Seems like 220 is not happening. 230?

Should we attack SB's trireme

I'm leaning towards attack.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Big picture decisions:

1) try for failgold? or forget it and just stabilize the economy? I don't think it's worth the anger and pop loss (and useless barracks) to try to do HE. Unless maybe later if we're growing into angry citizens.

2a) Whip buildings quickly at lower food? get them done and build wealth to stabilize economy?
2b) Grow cities to happy cap and work lots of specialists to keep research up. Whip later.
I think 2b is the way to go. Getting a temple 10t sooner is only 30.

Pedal to the metal.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Will we produce more GPs anywhere?

 

[WastinTime]

Will we produce more GPs anywhere?

Sure. Science. Probably a GS and probably T186-187.
Then one more late game. And maybe the free spy.

Probably the only other way to get more elsewhere is to do caste+pacifism vs caste+freeReligion.
When we're ready for the caste switch, we will have to decide which one is better.
Recall: we probably have to be in free religion for the vote.
40 turns of +10% is probably better than a couple extra GP at the very end of the game.

 

[MirrorGuard]

Great job Mitchum!I have never seen a worker survive like that.

2a) Whip buildings quickly at lower food? get them done and build wealth to stabilize economy?

How is customs house? Now that we rely on Peter to do astronomy, can we build an academy using that great scientist?

 

[WastinTime]

Everyone except Science will be unhealthy soon, so they all get a harbor (and will still be unhealthy)
Let's imagine it's about T185? or whatever the turn is we switch to caste for the rest of the game.
What do our cities look like?

- assume +12 for sushi

- It doesn't pay to work coastal tiles once we've reached our stable size (and in unhealthiness)
Cus if you grew 2 more and worked 2 coast you'd get -2 food from unhealthy which is one less scientist.
You gain +4c from the 2 coast, but lose 6

- Without unhealthy, we'd want to work all those coast if we have the happies.

Question: is it worth having aqueduct and/or hospitals?
Both are 300 hammers (or in our case 7 pop, which is ~150 food and 2 anger)
With +5 health, we can work 5 more coast for +10c or +15bpt. 40 turns of that is 600
I think the debate then turns to anger. Can the city handle the extra whip anger?
"Healthy size" counts +2 harbor and -1 forge.
"Happy size" ~T185 counts +3 for whip anger melting away +3 for gold n silk, +1 temple, -1 monument, then minus all the planned whip anger coming
2 cities get +3 market

2 Examples:
(let's see what you guys think before doing every city)

Whales, +22 food, unlimited whip anger
Healthy size: 12 (17 with aqueduct + hosp) (or 18 with forest grow)
Happy Size: n/a (globe) unfortunately, this city will get +3 REP bonus it doesn't need.
That means it can work 11, zero food tiles and/or specialists.
And 3 food tiles + horse = size 15
Recommend: this city go to size 18 (trade rt bonus I think) needs Aqua and Hospital

Silver, has the most food at +25
Healthy size: 14 (+1 from grocer included)
Happy Size: 20-ish. so I guess we can whip a bit more here.
That means without health problems, it could work 13, zero food tiles and/or specialists.
And 4 food tiles = size 17
Recommend: work 1 coast and go for size 18 (again is the trade rt bonus worth it?) needs aqua at least

 

[WastinTime]

How is customs house? Now that we rely on Peter to do astronomy, can we build an academy using that great scientist?

Academy probably can't compete with GS bulb of Electricity ~1900.

Customs house. Let's look that up. 100% foreign TR.
So that would be minimum +4c and if the rounding works out you could maybe? get a lucky +8c
Requires harbor, so no way to get one in Science for the Bureau bonus.
Cost: 180 provides, let's say +6bpt
Not a horrible investment. Maybe another thing for Whales to whip.