[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Mitchum]

Oh, great then. I see you're already considering whipping away Silver's fur. But I don't see how (or why) you are still trying to get CoL in 4t.

Yep. Got it. We can relax the CoL date by 1 turn.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Kait, it looks like Silver City is one population less than what you PPP says. That means we're not working an extra coastal tile and we're -2 from you plan. CoL still comes in 4 turns so maybe it's not critical; it's just something that I noticed.

The is the same.

1 4 fur got worked instead of 1 2 coast. (+2)
now 1 4 is getting worked instead of 1 2 plus 1 4 (-2)

It looks like we can afford to whip the wb in Silver City next turn rather than on T78 per your plan. We don't need that extra commerce to get CoL in time and Whales could use the wb two turns sooner, right?

With Anarchy planned after getting Oracle, we can only use the Workboat 1 turn sooner.
But thanks to Granary mechanics, whipping the workboat on T77 is the same as whipping it on T78 I think.
Let me check again.

You want to whip it T76?
We need to manage overflows going into Pyramids properly.

**Edit**
Whipping Workboat T77 is 2 better for Whales than T78 whip, but our Capital was building Mids with massive overflow T78 with the original plan.
So the T77 Workboat whip in Silver City was pushed back to T78.

If we are doing Dun whips T76, then that means Silver City can whip Workboat on T77 sure.

Why do we need to double chop on T77? We only need one worker to do all of the chopping unless I'm missing something. Joan Dark completes chop 1 on T77 and chop 2 on T78. I guess that's too much OF on the Dun so maybe we do the dun whips T76? Or do we want the dun OF to be the last hammers into the Oracle?

We can do 1 Worker with Dun whips on T76 sure.

Double chop T77 costs 3 worker turns, but it lets us work an extra population in Science City and Profit City 2 more turns.

1 Worker with Dun whips T76 is best if we are planning to put the last hammers into T79 Oracle now ya.

We could build Granary T75, whip Dun T76, Chop +overflow + Oracle T77, Chop + Oracle T78, then 4 for Oracle T79 to complete it.​

 

[Mitchum]

Are we going to grow Cows and build a granary there in the next 10ish turns? Or is it going to continue building work boats for the rest of the empire in the foreseeable future? I could use some ideas on how to get Cows set up with a granary and LH so that it can become the city it was meant to be.

 

[Mitchum]

With Anarchy planned after getting Oracle, we can only use the Workboat 1 turn sooner.
But thanks to Granary mechanics, whipping the workboat on T77 is the same as whipping it on T78 I think, so T78 is better.
Let me check again.

We'd be whipping away a 1F2C citizen. I see no value in keeping him around and I'd rather whip as early as possible to give more turns for the whip to cool down. The current plan has the wb whip on T78. If we can use the wb 1 turn earlier, it seems like we should be whipping on T77 at the latest (assuming T76 is a turn too soon).

​

1 Worker with Dun whips T76 is best if we are planning T79 Oracle now ya.

Sounds good. I'll go with this plan since the team feels safe with a T80 Oracle (hammers finish it T79). I think there might be a spare worker turn for Joan Dark in this scenario assuming we want the last chop to resolve on T79.

 

[Mitchum]

It feels like we should put 1 turn of hammers into a LH in Canal City and then whip it on T76. I assume we were growing and working coastal tiles to eek out CoL but if that's not needed, we should build a LH (or wb). Agree?

 

[Kaitzilla]

It feels like we should put 1 turn of hammers into a LH in Canal City and then whip it on T76. I assume we were growing and working coastal tiles to eek out CoL but if that's not needed, we should build a LH (or wb). Agree?

Lighthouse is better.

 

[Mitchum]

Lighthouse is better.

I'm confused. LH = Lighthouse. I'm suggesting we build the Lighthouse for 1 turn and then whip it on T76 (next turn). I think you're agreeing but I'm not 100% sure... EDIT: Note that it is currently building a Dun which is the other option but I prefer LH now. EDIT 2: I see that you're agreeing with me. You're saying that LH is better than working coastal tiles.

The last thing I have to work out is how to optimize Cow City to build it's granary and LH while putting OF hammers into the Mids and building the wbs we need. That city has been the workhorse of our empire but we need to invest in infrastructure there. I'm just not sure if we should start doing that now or after the Oracle is finished. WT want's a T90 Mids so it has some work to do...

 

[WastinTime]

Are we going to grow Cows and build a granary there in the next 10ish turns? Or is it going to continue building work boats for the rest of the empire in the foreseeable future?

We have almost no more needs for wb's after the current ones are completed--at last none needed from Cows. I would definitely focus on getting Cows growing and whipping overflow.

WT want's a T90 Mids

T90-ish mids. I haven't really looked at this closely.

 

[WastinTime]

Don't forget about Canal trying to get some hammers--or in this sad case, the 2h tile. I'd still like to see a 3h mine (which then pops free copper)
But only if you can keep it growing too. That LH should help

 

[Mitchum]

We have almost no more needs for wb's after the current ones are completed--at last none needed from Cows.

We need 4 more wbs:
Whales #1: Will be whipped in Silver T77/T78
Whales #2: I suggest Whales build its own wb since it has the hammers to do so and is so far away from Cows; Or Silver could build another one for it.
Canal: The one currently being built in Cows; Canal has such little production that it could use the wb from Cows
Clams: Not critical since no culture in Clams at the moment. Clams will have the hammers to build its own when needed.

If this makes sense, then Cows only needs to finish the current wb (1 pop whip with max OF into Mids) and can then start on the granary + LH builds. Sound good?

 

[Kaitzilla]

We need 4 more wbs:
Whales #1: Will be whipped in Silver T77/T78
Whales #2: I suggest Whales build its own wb since it has the hammers to do so and is so far away from Cows; Or Silver could build another one for it.
Canal: The one currently being built in Cows; Canal has such little production that it could use the wb from Cows
Clams: Not critical since no culture in Clams at the moment. Clams will have the hammers to build its own when needed.

If this makes sense, then Cows only needs to finish the current wb (1 pop whip with max OF into Mids) and can then start on the granary + LH builds. Sound good?

I favor the Cow City workboat to heading to Whale City.
Whale City has nice tiles like horse and silver to work, so it will benefit a lot from 3 improved seafood.

Canal City has nothing to work but coast and will have plenty of food after lighthouse.

Granary in Cow City?
I suspect we can build it T75 with deer, 2 pop whip away all the furs T76, produce workboat T77, and quickly work our way to a 1pop whip of Lighthouse.
Or maybe dun instead of Lighthouse and we try to 2pop lighthouse at size 5.

Pyramids T90 would be a massive effort.
It hasn't even really been started in Cow City yet.

 

[Mitchum]

Is the ideal Dun hammer total 40/50 pre whip? Or is it a coincidence that both Science and Profit happen to have 40/50? I'm just trying to figure out what to shoot for. Any extra hammers are converted to gold immediately so it's not bad to have more than 40/50, I suppose.

@Kait, I'll try to work your ideas into Cows builds. I think I prefer the 2pop lighthouse to avoid growing into angry citizens.

 

[WastinTime]

Canal City has nothing to work but coast and will have plenty of food after lighthouse.

agree

Pyramids T90 would be a massive effort.
It hasn't even really been started in Cow City yet.

Oh, my bad. I guess I imagined it was half done. No problem. We can do it whenever it feels right. I was just thinking our cash needed a boost about then. I don't mind a few turns at 0%, but to fix our problem forever, I say IW, then Currency. Build wealth isn't bad after a city has prepped a nice whip. And it lets us manage OF better.

 

[Mitchum]

PPP
Turn 75 to Turn 80

Continuing from MirrorGuard's Turnset

Techs
T75 - Code of Laws 100% (456 -51) +75 Code of Laws@ 0+Overflow/546
T76 - Code of Laws 100% (405 -49) +75 Code of Laws@ 185/546
T77 - Code of Laws 100% (377 -49) +77 Code of Laws@ 276/546 Note the +21 from Dun overflow
T78 - Code of Laws 100% (328 -51) +74 Code of Laws@ 369/546
T79 – Code of Laws 100% (277 -51) +72 Code of Laws@ 459/546

Workers

Rex - (Worker 1S of Science City)
T75 Complete road
T76 Partial road on Horse
T77 Move to forest at Clam City-1N2W
T78 - T80 Chop into Clam City granary
T81+ Help Shepherd fare 1E of Rice then road forest 1S1W of Rice

Cowboy - (Worker 2E of Whale City)
T75 - T78 Chop forest into Granary
T79 - T80 - Camp Silver's Deer (Kait's MM and my original plan)

Phillip - (Worker 1S1W of western Gems)
T75 Complete road
T76 Move to forest at Cows-S
T77 - T79 Chop forest into Pyramids
T80+ Fix the Deer Road

Joan Dark - (Worker 2W of Profit City)
T75 - T77 Chop forest into Oracle
T78 - Move 1N onto stone quarry then 1E onto forest and chop forest into Oracle
T79 - Board Galley at Profit-NE
T80+ - Unload at Science-4S1W then road the gems at Science-2S

Shepherd - (Worker 1N1W of Clams City)
T75 - T78 Mine forest plains hill 1N1W of Clams City
T79+ Farm Plains tile 1E of Rice then road forest 1S1W of Rice

Cities

Science
T75 - Pyramids (at 58/500); Sheep, Horse, Winefarm, Rice, Plainsfarm (fired scientists)
T76 - 1-pop Whip Dun; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm (Make sure to trade away Stone+Deer to Sitting Bull after whipping Profit City+Science City both Duns)
T77 - Pyramids (at 78/500); Sheep, Horse, Rice, Winefarm (Must pillage Deer road to get back Stone!)
T78 - Pyramids (at 196/500); Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, Plainsfarm
T79 - Warrior; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, Plainsfarm
T80 - Stop

Cows
T75 - T76 Workboat; Crab, Cow, Deer, PHFur, Tundrafur (Goes to Clams)
T77 - Granary; Crab, Cow, Deer, PHFur, Tundrafur
T78 - 2-pop Whip Granary; Crab, Cow, Deer (Will the Avoid Growth option benefit Cows when it grows??)
T79 - Pyramids; Crab, Cow, Deer (chop lands)
T80 - LH; Stop

Canal
T75 - LH; Clam, Crab, unimproved Clam, Tundraforest (11)
T76 - 2 pop Whip Lighthouse; Clam, Crab, Tundraforesthill (2)
T77 - Dun; Clam, Crab, unimproved Clam (to grow to 2 pops)
T78 – T79 - Dun; Clam, Crab, unimproved Clam, Coast (we need the )
T80 - Stop

Silver
T75 - 2-pop Whip Lighthouse; Clam, Crab x2
T76 - Workboat; Clam, Crab x2, Silvermine
T77 - 1 pop Whip Workboat; Clam, Crab x2, Silvermine
T78 - Moai; Clam, Crab x2, Silvermine, Fur
T79 - Moai; Clam, Crab x2, Silvermine, Coast (to grow to 6 pops if we can still get CoL in 1T)
T80 - Stop

Profit
T75; Dun; Crab, Stone, Coast
T76 - 1-pop Whip Dun; Crab, Stone (Make sure to trade away Stone+Deer to Sitting Bull after whipping Profit City+Science City Both Duns)
T77 - T79 Oracle CRUCIAL BUILD; Crab, Stone
T80 - Stop

Whales
T75 - T77 Granary; Crab, Silvermine
T78 - Granary; Crab, Silvermine (Chop lands)
T79 - 1-pop Whip Granary; Silver
T80 - Stop

Clam City
T75 Monument; Clam, unimproved forest plains hill (3)
T76 1-pop Whip Monument; Clam
T77 - Granary; Clam
T78 - Granary; PHMine (Chop lands)
T79 - Granary; PHMine
T80 - Anarchy? (Chop lands)

Units
Galley 1 (2N1E of Profit City)
T75 - Sail to Profit-NE
T76 - T78 Wait
T79 - Pick up Joan Dark and sail to mainland

Galley 2 (2S1W of Whales City)
T75 – Explore west

Warrior 2 (In Silver City)
T75+ - Garrison Silver City

Warrior 3 (1S of Science City)
T75 - Move to Gems tile 2S1W of Science City
T77 - Pillage plains hill road 1S1W of gems tile to regain Stone+Deer from Sitting Bull

Scout 1 (On Galley 2 2S1W of Whales City)
T75 - Explore the west

Chariot (In Sitting Bull's lands)
T75+ Explore Sitting Bull's lands heading south

Workboat 10 (Born in Cow City on Turn 78)
T78 - Sail for Clams

Workboat 11 (Born in Silver City on Turn 78)
T79 – Sail for Whale City to net 2nd seafood on T83

Diplomacy
Espionage on Sitting Bull
T75 - Cancel Sheep gift with SB then trade Sheep for Rice.
T76 - Give Stone + Deer to Sitting Bull after whipping Duns in Science and Profit City.

Stopping Points
Any World Wonder is completed by the AI
Meet a new AI
Start of Turn 80 is reached
A stack containing more than 1 Sitting Bull military unit is spotted marching towards Canal City

Notes
Save at the end of each turn
Check that and matches before pressing next turn.
Check SBs production, watch for a Settler.

 

[LowtherCastle]

48/50h for dun maximizes the return.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Do we need to cancel any deals for health reasons?

 

[WastinTime]

48/50h for dun maximizes the return.

Depends on organic hammers. 48/50 might be excess that's no different than build wealth. Still, we could use the cash since we don't have currency.

 

[Mitchum]

Do we need to cancel any deals for health reasons?

Yep. Look at the Diplomacy section on T76.

 

[Mitchum]

Things that might need some opinions in the current PPP above that could easily be changed:

Rex uses his spare turns to build a road connecting the rice (via the horse tile). This might be something SB demands or we could possibly use the extra health down the road anyway.

Cowboy camps deer in Silver city (2 turns to complete) rather than another chop or hooking up horses or furs in Whales.

Philip roads the gems jungle at Science-2S.

Shepherd roads the PH mine since he's standing on it and can avoid losing worker turns climbing back up that hill later (if it has iron or pops a resource).

Canal continues to put hammers into a Dun after the LH. It could also start working on a wb but it does seem to have plenty of food in the test save.

Silver 1-pop Whips the wb on T77; Kait seemed to prefer T78.

Whale City 1-pop whips its granary on T79 per the original plan. Do we still want to do this? it will finish organically in one more turn anyway.

Any exploration advice? I was planning to drop the scout off in the NW as soon as possible and have the galley take the southern route while the scout took the more northern route.

 

[WastinTime]

Hey, I got a forest to grow on Silver's deer. The test game really does giveth.

Whales: whip granary looks good to me, but don't put it in lh after. Do a wonder. And you might need to do 'avoid growth' here. Yeah, I don't get the math, but it seems to work.

SilverCity :
T79 : 2-whip lh for maxOF
Mids/Moai

Canal City
T75 - LH; Clam, Crab, unimproved Clam, TForest? or Coast (you probably want to grow since Canal has 'too much' food, so instead Coast)
T76 - 2 pop Whip Lighthouse; Clam, Crab, TForest? unimproved Clam
T77 - Dun; Clam, Crab, TForest?
T78 – T79 - Dun; Clam, Crab, unimproved Clam, TForest
T80 whip Dun for maxOF (or take it out of the queue and wait for the next stone trick)

I'm Ok with working fewer TundraForests above, but it depends on when the stone gift is.
I think you get the point tho. Make sure this city is ready to contribute to the next Stone-less turn. When is that?
And if you prep the Dun early, you can always start on a library! That needs 29h too.