[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

Green light from me, when you’re ready.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I don't know what Whales is going to do with +11 food. How about sending this to 2Clams so it can focus on granary, lh, library?
edit: oh, borders.. someone said that already. Hmm.

Whale City has silver mine, plains horse, plains hill fur, and a tundra hill mine.

It can totally use +11

 

[Kaitzilla]

Agree.

Here's a new plan I'm loving. See if you can shoot holes in it:

CoL 80, IW 83
T83: (delayed Bureau + caste /anarchy)

Now, there's no question, 2Clams pops borders with an artist. wb goes there.

Here's the real reason:

SilverCity - this is the reason we delay caste. To get to size 8
T75 LH (to grow and keep working silvermine)
T76 whip LH
T77+ wb (sorry whales, you have to suffer a couple turns)
here's where it gets good...
T80 start a library, Grow (work Deer Camp)
T81 grow
T83 Size 8 with 22f (unhappy, but who cares, it's anarchy)

Now we need 6 turns of caste or 5 with starvation
T84 Happy! from gems (Work 6 Scientists at -4fpt) (option: work 6, 6, 7, 8, 7 -- starves 2)
T89 or 90 bulb Philo. (Slavery, Pacifism), Anarchy

T100?-ish (Rep, Caste) for Edu bulb(s), not our long caste run
--------------------------------------------------
Or, maybe we can do Bureau Caste T81, without IW/gems, and with size 7 SilverCity starving 1. So the Deer camp is probably not necessary.
That'd be T88 Philo, slavery, pacifism.

We can't afford to switch to Rep, Caste, AND pacifism for the Edu GS's, so we get Pacifism set and live without OrgRel.

Gotta plan for those 5 turns without slavery. Shouldn't be too hard. Just whip b4.

Alphabet will be bulbed before Philosophy.

 

[WastinTime]

Alphabet will be bulbed before Philosophy.

You had to ruin it, didn't you?
Ok, so no early Tao and no early, free switch into Pacifism. Grr

 

[WastinTime]

Alphabet will be bulbed before Philosophy.

Ugh, and it's 1 tech before too. And only in BtS. Vanilla had a different priority.

 

[WastinTime]

So we could do the GS anyway. And now we have an option to research poly+mono and take OrgRel for free. I don't think OrgRel will pay off.

Hmm.

Or, we skip caste and just take Bureau (maybe 2Clams will get the Holy city? )

Then, when we get Alpha we'd start the caste thing. But we can't prepare for caste when we don't know when Alpha is coming.
And No, I don't want to research Alpha.

 

[Mitchum]

So are we back to a T80 revolt to Bureau?

Also, what about whipping the LH before finishing the wb? It feels like the right thing to do but I'm fine either way.

Lastly, where did we bottom out on Cows wb? Is it headed E or W. Canal already has a ton of food and Clams could be a bust so maybe we just send it E??? Like Kait said, the extra food will let us work all of those nice tiles and also speed up regrowth after the whip.

Note that I only plan to play until T80 (i.e. hit end turn and watch the Oracle movie). So any decisions beyond T80 can hold. We may be on the brink of meeting a bunch of AIs (with Alphabet that could change things.

 

[Mitchum]

On second thought, I think the plan of growing Silver City is a good one. It leaves the Caste option on the table once we see where we are on T80. I'll put that in the PPP for now.

 

[Mitchum]

I think the PPP has been updated with everyone's comments. I have not had a chance to play test any of the changes yet; I'll do that tomorrow. Feel free to keep the comments coming.

 

[WastinTime]

if we aren't going to do the caste GS thing right away, then I'd like to put failgold back in the plan for SilverCity. So, that'd be whipping the wb too. If you don't want the wb to be late, then it goes first and lh has to wait til 80-ish. I think we can do it this way (later lh) and still get to size 7 and do the thang if we want. Might just be 1 turn later than the previous plan, but still earlier than the size 8 plan.

I can't make up my mind. Sleeping on it might help.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I think the PPP has been updated with everyone's comments. I have not had a chance to play test any of the changes yet; I'll do that tomorrow. Feel free to keep the comments coming.

Thanks Mitchum.
I'll look it over now and post my thoughts.

Test Game has an error.
Forest 2N1E of Clam City does not exist in the Real Game.

Is there an article explaining how it works? This one doesn't explain the change in 3.19 patch. My rusty memory tells me that some of the excess hammer can be wasted, i.e. not converted to OF hammer or gold.

Due to BUFFY mod, any excess hammers beyond double a unit or building's hammer cost get turned into gold.
In regular Civ 3.19, those hammers vanish.

The only time hammers vanish in BUFFY mod are when the player tries to put more hammers into a wonder the AI already completed.

In the case of our Dun, we whip it with stone at 48/50 and it goes to 108/50.
We give away the stone and put +4 in with regular production so the final production is 112/50.
This creates an excess of 62

We gave away the stone so the hammer excess does not get divided by a production multiplier, and we get a 50 overflow next turn and BUFFY gives us +12.
​

 

[LowtherCastle]

Pacifism requires a turn of revolt to our religion and religion in the one or two GS cities.

Our next failgold will come from Mids + Moai, then Parthenon, then Literature wonders, right?

How does that align with the Educ bulb? Is an early Oxford that crucial?

Is there a way to dovetail the revolt to Pacifism with our first Golden Age?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Our Sitting Bull chariot is at a fork in the road. South of mound city or west? We know his 2nd scout was gone for a total of about 40 turns, I’d go with South first. It just seems more likely that’s the way to meet AIs. Of course it’s just a guess either way.

Do we have another unit in the pipeline to go west here if this one goes south end and his journey is endless?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Btw, meeting AIs before we adopt some pagan religion prevents an instant outbreak of negmoids.* Without us or them having Alpha, we might get blocked without OBs. It’s possible SB’s scout turned around at a cultural border.






* For you youngsters, negmoids are far worse than hemorrhoids.

 

[WastinTime]

Our Sitting Bull chariot is at a fork in the road. South of mound city or west?

I vote East. There aren't any rivers blocking us from quickly moving around this area. I'd don't wanna wait forever to see what (iron?) tiles SB might have.
Circumnav would be one goal.

Is there a way to dovetail the revolt to Pacifism with our first Golden Age?

This is what I normally do, but I was thinking it was better to have it to dbl-bulb Education.
Glad you brought this up. If we can do the dbl bulb without Philo/Pac, then we don't need to bulb Philo for a long time (like when we get Merc) and go for ~10 more GS's. We'd also have a long time to spread our religion.

But, we need Philo before we do the GAges, so we'd need the 300gpp GS. Or at least a high-odds shot at one. If we get a spy or something then we'd probably research Philo manually. Need to think on this.

 

[WastinTime]

It's actually a pretty easy decision to do the Bureau + Caste
Most of our cities have nothing to whip T81-87 anyway.

Cows
T75 Granary (work food)
whip granary
wb
78-79 lh
T80 grow to size 4. Whip LH down to size 2

 

[Mitchum]

Our Sitting Bull chariot is at a fork in the road. South of mound city or west? We know his 2nd scout was gone for a total of about 40 turns, I’d go with South first. It just seems more likely that’s the way to meet AIs. Of course it’s just a guess either way.

Do we have another unit in the pipeline to go west here if this one goes south end and his journey is endless?

No new units in the pipeline in the next 5ish turns. I assume the goal of this exploring chariot is to go as far and as fast as possible, right? Or is it to fully defog all tiles? I'm assuming the former because a) we can't settle any cities so full resource knowledge is not critical and b) we can find out the info from SB's map. Right?

 

[Mitchum]

Btw, meeting AIs before we adopt some pagan religion prevents an instant outbreak of negmoids.* Without us or them having Alpha, we might get blocked without OBs. It’s possible SB’s scout turned around at a cultural border.

I doubt he met anyone based on the fact that he's still out spending us in .

 

[WastinTime]

Canal City
T75 - LH; Clam, Crab, unimproved Clam, TForest? or Coast (you probably want to grow since Canal has 'too much' food, so instead Coast)
T76 - 2 pop Whip Lighthouse; Clam, Crab, TForest? unimproved Clam
T77 - Dun; Clam, Crab, TForest?
T78 – T79 - Dun; Clam, Crab, unimproved Clam, TForest
T80 whip Dun for maxOF (or take it out of the queue and wait for the next stone trick)

Re-visiting Canal (with the idea of caste T80) This is the only other city besides Silver that can get started on a GS/Gspy

Work all the coast.
T75 lh
T76 whip LH (no more whipping after)
T77+ Dun
T80 (anarchy)
T81-T82 size 5 (work 2 sci)
T83-T86 size 6 (work 4 sci)

total : 90 gpp (goal 200 gpp for 2nd Edu bulb or save it for Philo)

Later, during slavery, using a library + 2sci, Canal is +8gpp and slowly makes it to 200

Not sure how we'd do a 300 gpp GS fast enough without crippling Science city. We're probably single bulbing Edu

If we get a GSpy, I suppose our only choice is to start GAge without Pacifism and switch to it after 5 turns.

 

[LowtherCastle]

No new units in the pipeline in the next 5ish turns. I assume the goal of this exploring chariot is to go as far and as fast as possible, right? Or is it to fully defog all tiles? I'm assuming the former because a) we can't settle any cities so full resource knowledge is not critical and b) we can find out the info from SB's map. Right?

Good point. Yes, I’d race to meet AIs. I don’t care about knowing SB will get iron. We’ll get him to Pleased before he does.

As a defogging criterion, I’d just look at whether it might defog a AI’s cultural tile. In other words, when in doubt, zoom out and hit the show culture icon. That'll tell you if there’s culture there to defog. Land or water.