[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[WastinTime]

With the Courthouse, no whale, and producing a Great Person, I think Canal City reached Size 11 on T130.
Perhaps T129 with clever use of Parthenon, but the food bin would be only half full at Size 11.

that's pretty good, ch is still a maybe... Yeah, I forgot to mention we ideally need 35+ food in that bin.

I think if we go 25 turns without that ch, it's only 75-100g lost.
Then we could get to size 11 with 35+ food probably T127? which is looking like the GAge could be that early.
We'll have to see where each city is at and then decide the fate of the CH.
Whales better figure out how to chain whip into Parthenon, probably with 3 chops.
I think we are on track for having Aes + Banking 126 or 127 (and I still think Aes could be free)

 

[WastinTime]

ill we have the Parthenon by then (in Whales, right)? Where does the National Epic go and when?

whales, yes.
NE: goes in Science. Not sure how/when we can build it there since we're waiting for marble. If only we had a couple more workers...I mean forests.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I keep looking at fast Philosophy and Feudalism so Peter does not start building Angkor Wat and won't trade us Philosophy for 20-25 turns.

Since we are thinking about T127 Golden Age, I'll agree to drop Courthouse if the team wants more food for Canal City.

How about:
T109 - Code of Laws to Sitting Bull for 10 and +diplo (we need +3 more fair trade to get to Friendly by T117)
T109 - T116 We tech Metal Casting -> Machinery -> then Guilds starting T117
T114 - Peter is done with Feudalism and hopefully does not tech Currency or Metal Casting or Paper next

T117 - If Sitting Bull has a monopoly tech like Construction or Compass, take it in trade. (Not Calendar, messes up bulbing!)
T117 - Bribe Peter into Confu for 6 turns with Map
T117 - Iron Working from Sitting Bull (Put all 5 workers on gems)
T117 - Trade Currency + Metal Casting for Feudalism
T118 - Trade Machinery + Paper for Philosphy (We pray that Peter does not start Education in the future)(We also can't trade away Metal Casting and Machinery on the same turn)

T123 - Peter naturally switches back to Taoism and is no longer Friendly.
We can't bribe him back to Confu until T128.

If Peter is a jerk and techs Currency, Paper, or Metal Casting on T114-T116, we prioritize getting Feudalism.
Wait for Guilds to try and trade for Philosophy and pray Peter does not start Angkor Wat.
Can we tech Guilds in 5 turns and be able to trade it on T122 while Peter is still Friendly?
Test game indicates that yes, we can, barely with the 10 from SB we end up with 0 inbetween T115 and T116.
Without Courthouse in Canal, we need another +20 from AI I think on top of the +10 from SB.

T127 - Banking for Aesthetics from someone?
No!
We need Aesthetics by T125 at the latest to build Parthenon in 2 turns.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Oops, fatal error.

If we give our map to Peter to switch to Confu, he will not be Friendly.
We need to give Peter +1 more tech to get the +1 diplo.
Otherwise we wait for shared civic to tick up again on T122 I think.

I hate this game.

 

[WastinTime]

no paper to an AI with Philo unless in this one specific case Peter demands it.
SB will not tech CoL, so don't give him that.
I still like:

MC for Confu (and just a couple beakers to go on Machinery
next turn. Machinery for Feudal (massive beaker overflow)
Guilds in 4t for Philo

 

[Kaitzilla]

no paper to an AI with Philo unless in this one specific case Peter demands it.
SB will not tech CoL, so don't give him that.
I still like:

MC for Confu (and just a couple beakers to go on Machinery
next turn. Machinery for Feudal (massive beaker overflow)
Guilds in 4t for Philo

How about MC for IW on T113.
Then map for Confu T117.
Then Machinery + Currency for Feudalism? T117

Even if Peter picks currency or machinery next, we can still make that trade.

 

[WastinTime]

How about MC for IW on T113.

Sure. Ofc, you're still assuming he meets SB. I don't want to jinx it, but technically, he could sail thru Canal and all the way around LuxuryIsland first.
We may be waiting for SB Friendly.

 

[Mitchum]

I put a spreadsheet together for GPP based on WT's outline and it does work. It's a bit hard to predict everything exactly leading up to the start of the Golden Age so we'll need to sort out how big each city will be and how much food in the food box at the start of the Golden Age.

Assumptions:
1. Oxford built in Science on T111 (date really isn't important since it only generates 1 GPP
2. UoS built in Science on T118 (date really isn't important since it only generates 1 GPP)
3. Marble online on T125.
4. Parthenon built in Whales on T129.
5. We have a great person (from Music) on T130 to start the Golden Age.
6. I think the National Epic in Canal makes more sense so it can get the 1400 GP for Astro. I had to keep slowing the capital down even without the NE to keep it from generating a GS too early plus we don't want GPP pollution in Science, right?
7. Cows runs an Engineer full time as soon as it's forge is done for a shot at a 50/50ish GE. Should we run an Engineer in any other cities that have a forge in case the one from Cows fails?
8. Numbers in the spreadsheet assume 1 free specialist from Mercantilism
9. We get the next 9 great people (up to the 1000 GPP) by T145 which is when the Golden Age ends.
9. 1200 GP comes from Whales on T150
10. 1400 GP comes from Canal on T166 (I didn't try too hard to pull these last 2 great people in)
11. I did not pay much attention to the population growth, food box or whether or not a city would be able to sustain the number of specialists allotted. We'll have to do that once we get closer to triggering the GA.

Questions:
1. Will we go for the GArt to trigger or GA or use the first one from Canal for that? Would suck to suffer anarchy to get into Pacifism/Mercarntilism.
2. Should we run merchants in either Canal for the first great person (200 GPP) ensure that we have at least one non-GS to trigger the second GA? Maybe we'll also get a GPro (300 GPP from Silver) so I'm not sure how to ensure we get exactly 2 non-GSs out of the first four.

I had to monkey with the formulas a bit since Oxford, UoS and Parthenon are not online on the first turn of the spreadsheet. The cells I had to modify are highlighted grey.
The only numbers you need to change are:

a. The "1" in the GA, Pacificm and Parthenon columns to indicate the dates when those occur.
b. The number of specialists to run in each city.
c. The "GP Cost" to indicate the value of the GP just attained so that the value is subtracted in the next row.
d. Put a 1 in the GPP multipliers row in the city where the National Epic will go (I didn't include it).

 

[WastinTime]

National Epic?

I was thinking Science wants to work its gems and not 4+ sci, so Nat epic would allow it to contribute to this first run and then paired with NatPark should get us some more value.

No extra GE's. I'm not even sure we should try to get one. It's what 800 hammers? I'd rather have a GS. The new plan is to start UN early.

T145 which is when the Golden Age ends

Did I forget to mention, it's 8t GAge then 4t break to work food/refill bins, then 8t GAge.
We waste the 2nd GAge if our food bins are empty
During the break, we have the option to go back to slavery, but then we lose the 8th turn of the GAge, so probably not. What would we whip?

 

[Kaitzilla]

I have officially updated the Test Game up to T109.
It should be accurate.

The plan so far is to probably skip the Courthouse in Canal, get Metal Casting and Iron Working T113, get Machinery and Feudalism T117, get Guilds and Philosophy by T122, get Aesthetics by T125.
Go ahead and add 30 with world builder on T115 because we can probably get that from the AI.
Don't forget the Warrior in Cow City will be coming down to pillage Deer road around T118 or T119.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I put a spreadsheet together for GPP based on WT's outline and it does work. It's a bit hard to predict everything exactly leading up to the start of the Golden Age so we'll need to sort out how big each city will be and how much food in the food box at the start of the Golden Age.

Assumptions:
1. Oxford built in Science on T111 (date really isn't important since it only generates 1 GPP
2. UoS built in Science on T118 (date really isn't important since it only generates 1 GPP)
3. Marble online on T125.
4. Parthenon built in Whales on T129.
5. We have a great person (from Music) on T130 to start the Golden Age.
6. I think the National Epic in Canal makes more sense so it can get the 1400 GP for Astro. I had to keep slowing the capital down even without the NE to keep it from generating a GS too early plus we don't want GPP pollution in Science, right?
7. Cows runs an Engineer full time as soon as it's forge is done for a shot at a 50/50ish GE. Should we run an Engineer in any other cities that have a forge in case the one from Cows fails?
8. Numbers in the spreadsheet assume 1 free specialist from Mercantilism
9. We get the next 9 great people (up to the 1000 GPP) by T145 which is when the Golden Age ends.
9. 1200 GP comes from Whales on T150
10. 1400 GP comes from Canal on T166 (I didn't try too hard to pull these last 2 great people in)
11. I did not pay much attention to the population growth, food box or whether or not a city would be able to sustain the number of specialists allotted. We'll have to do that once we get closer to triggering the GA.

Questions:
1. Will we go for the GArt to trigger or GA or use the first one from Canal for that? Would suck to suffer anarchy to get into Pacifism/Mercarntilism.
2. Should we run merchants in either Canal for the first great person (200 GPP) ensure that we have at least one non-GS to trigger the second GA? Maybe we'll also get a GPro (300 GPP from Silver) so I'm not sure how to ensure we get exactly 2 non-GSs out of the first four.

I had to monkey with the formulas a bit since Oxford, UoS and Parthenon are not online on the first turn of the spreadsheet. The cells I had to modify are highlighted grey.
The only numbers you need to change are:

a. The "1" in the GA, Pacificm and Parthenon columns to indicate the dates when those occur.
b. The number of specialists to run in each city.
c. The "GP Cost" to indicate the value of the GP just attained so that the value is subtracted in the next row.
d. Put a 1 in the GPP multipliers row in the city where the National Epic will go (I didn't include it).

Whoa, very fancy!

 

[WastinTime]

I'm not sure how to ensure we get exactly 2 non-GSs out of the first four.

We'd only need 1 non GS.
However, I'd be excited to get all GS's I think (careful what you wish for sometimes). In that case, we cancel the 2nd GAge We'd have 5 GS's and only need 2 more for Biology which is probably 5 turns. Might even want to rethink the order
We do the 2nd GAge with the spy from Communism. It does waste the parthenon a bit, but it's not like there is a better artist wonder.

Or, one of the last 2 GP are non-GS and it's back to GAge 2

 

[Kaitzilla]

I've advanced the T109 test game to T115 with my preferred micro.
No Courthouse in Canal + Iron Working added T113.
We are 36 short (or 34 short if Chariot is deleted T109) of being able to run 100% slider T115, but I'm sure we can get most of that from SB and Peter in the next 6 turns. (Cow City might be able to build Wealth if needed, but bleh to that)


Use this T115 test game to race into the future and test out Great People plans.
Let me know if Canal ended up with too much food and a Courthouse is probably a good idea.

Profit City had 1 in a Scout just in case we popped Iron in a city tile and messed up Warrior whip in Profit.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Does Cow City need a 3-pop whipped Forge T114?

I was thinking we might want a Great Engineer chance running a specialist, but if we don't I'd rather whip University at 51 than Forge.

 

[WastinTime]

Uni please.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Uni please.

Ok, here is the T115 test game with all my micro and no forge in Cow City.

 

[WastinTime]

Cities seem to be getting up to size. Whales is probably 1 short at size 10, but that's workable.
Because REP only does 5 cities, Cows may have to slow growth to stay under Whales. Unless I'm missing a happy, Whales at size 8 will be angry unless Cows is still at 7.

I was targeting 126 or 127 GAge, but maybe 130 is best. Let everyone grow 1 more and/or fill the food bin.

So, long story short, I can work with that 115 position.

 

[Mitchum]

Looking good at T115.

Another option to launch the Golden Age would be to run a scientist or two in Canal and use it to trigger the first golden age.

For Music, we'd need to get Aesthetics in trade and that often comes late from the AI, right. We're really relying on Peter to do most of the non-critical research for us; I don't think SB will be much help. If we do get Aesthetics, then we'd need to tech Literature -> Music. I'd be inclined to completely skip the Aesthetics -> Literature -> Music line unless we can get Aesthetics and Literature for free. My spreadsheet didn't use the NE for GP production at all. I don't think that line pays for itself unless we get 2/3 of it for free, right? All three techs is about 7 turns at 100% slider. I'd rather put those 7 turns into something we need. Maybe just Aesthetics for the Parthenon if we can't get it for free in trade...

Having a short break in between Golden Ages is fine and I remember it being mentioned. Like I said, I wasn't paying attention to pops of the food situation so if we need a break in between, that's fine.

Out of the 9 great people we're getting, are we hoping for 8 GSs and 1 mongrel? 7 GS bulbs and GS + mongrel to trigger second GA. Or can we live with 6 GS bulbs and skip Music? I guess 2 for Chem, 3 for SM, 4 for Biology would be ideal but we can't get enough great people for 9 bulbs.

Literature + Music is about 1250 but I don't remember how many beakers a GS gives based on our expected population. I guess the question is whether or not self-researching them for the free GA and the extra GS bulb into Biology pays for itself.

Keep in mind that our research rate will go up quite a bit during the GA when we're running all of the scientists so the beakers may come faster than the GSs do to bulb things. I've often messed up the timing on Golden Ages and triggered them too late because everything gets accelerated more than I expect.

 

[WastinTime]

run a scientist or two in Canal and use it to trigger the first golden age.

Yes, we are doing this already. We want to know if it's a useless spy (could even be an artist) and we would use that for the GAge.
We would never need 4 for Bio, a GS is about 1700, so 3 only leaves about 500 to go (unless Bio is not 5600? maybe I'm thinking of MM).
1 for Chem is enough. That tech is exactly the same as Edu.
But to answer you question, we can live with 6GSs. It might even be faster to biology that way.

I've often messed up the timing on Golden Ages and triggered them too late because everything gets accelerated more than I expect

Yes, the GAges can't start too soon. Our bpt should be over 1000 (final). So we will not only get the organic research for Bio way too soon, but also Nat, Constit, Econ, Corp (free compass, optics?) for Sushi. All in 20t of our GP farming.
T150 sushi could be a record?

 

[MirrorGuard]

I guess 2 for Chem, 3 for SM, 4 for Biology would be ideal

Printing Press is needed before G.s can bulb chemistry. We may need to use at least 1 G.s on it.