[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[WastinTime]

Whales is in the worst position to make the adjustment since it can't prep new builds this turn. It has a huge OF (which wouldn't have to go into HE any more)

 

[Mitchum]

Right, I guess switching early messes up or Wonder Bread HE plans. Is it worth delaying the switch for Whales and the HE plan? I'm not sure.

 

[WastinTime]

Right, I guess switching early messes up or Wonder Bread HE plans

The plan was almost complete. It was scheduled for last whip 174 in fact. With Silver completing it 175.
The big thing is Globe in Whales. And we can't put the T172 OF into it because we didn't do a Theater yet.

 

[Mitchum]

How critical to our end date is the Globe though? Yes, the extra happy cap will be nice but we can work more specialists to slow growth as needed until the Globe is done.

 

[WastinTime]

How critical to our end date is the Globe though?

maybe you're right. Whales does 15hpt (without OrgRel), so Globe is 20 turns.
Whales is a little more angry than others, but we didn't go crazy on it yet like we planned to.

Whales

172 Harbor (70/80)
173 University (15/200)
174 whip university first, then harbor, but take them out of the queue and build a Theater. Optionally: cold-whip that Theater for 2 pop.
A cold whip is still 30 per pop.

after Theater,
resolve Uni & harbor into Globe (depending on happies--if we get gold and silk, maybe we can do an observatory first?)

Kaitzilla will sort all this out.

 

[WastinTime]

That leaves the 3rd sushi exec in limbo. Could be built in Science instead of Whales, but what if we skip the 3rd and sail the 1st one to Sal instead of Louis? Cus Louis is split on to land masses. What are the odds he puts an exec on a boat? If Bismarck immediately starts spreading it and it's looking really lucrative, maybe we can get one to Louis.

 

[WastinTime]

Sushi to Sal instead of Louis also means we can get Louis' crab.

 

[MirrorGuard]

What is your plan for updating the PPP with the latest thinking (assuming you agree with it )?

Gimme about 1 hour. I need to take care something 1st...Sorry.

 

[WastinTime]

Sushi to Sal instead of Louis also means we can get Louis' crab.

...and, that means we should sail the caravel completely in the other direction (that's West, Mitch) to Hamburg (not Paris) and the exec walks to Mecca.
That way: 1) we stay in our culture more often, 2) our caravel will be at HRE when it's done.
It's pretty much the same distance.

 

[Mitchum]

Is that left west or right west?

 

[Mitchum]

Gimme about 1 hour. I need to take care something 1st...Sorry.

No worries, MG. I was just curious what your general plan and availability are so we can all accommodate it.

 

[MirrorGuard]

You mean FreeMarket, not caste, right? We can't do caste since we are not in caste.

 

[MirrorGuard]

Which building are needed? Which to whip?

When there is not enough food to support the population, we can always work coast.

One way to evaluate a health in a city is like:
when a city grows beyond health limits but within happiness limits, 1f=1health, coast=22, so the value of a is upper bounded by (6c–2c)/2=2c ; in profit because of Moai the upper bound is 1.5c.

Now the base commerce+beaker from specialists adds up to about 40. There will be growth and there will be turns when we can't do 100% research. Use 40 as long-term average base beaker per city.

Using this method, the return/investment ratio of different buildings are:
observatory: (40*25%)/(150*5/6)=1/12.5 university:1/16.6
aqueduct:4/(100*5/6)=1/20.8 (the actual value is lower because it will take extra turns to grow into -2 unhealthy) in profit it's 1/27.7
hospital is even worse..
temple/cathedral... Once we are in free religion, +2 will disappear?
grocer/supermarket: grocer provides +1/150, supermarket requires grocer+refrigeration(when there is no slavery no Org-religion)
The ratio serves as a rough measurement of how many turns it takes for the buildings to pay for itself. Another merit of slavery is that the building can be online immediately. The conclusion seems to be: whip observatory(not in science), whip uni, slow build temple/cathedral,
aqueduct to be whipped in a few cities, no hospital, grocer only in silver and clams, no supermarket.

depending on happies--if we get gold and silk, maybe we can do an observatory first?

Saladin has 4 silks, 3 gold mines. The good news is: Saladin doesn't receive +1 share resources +mod from Bismark or Louis.

 

[MirrorGuard]

Cities>10 population now are suffering from +1 ww.
Need to complete physics 6240 electricity 7020 radio 9360 MM 5616-1800 great scientist=28236/1.2=23530
assuming on average 850 raw/turn, +28T=T200 we will reach Massmedia
buildings that have return/investment ratio<1/28 will not affect the timing when we start UN.
assuming we can get silk and gold from Saladin


Cows:
-Still needs temple 80, factory 250, industrial park 200, Ironworks 700(-2only, no bonus without access to coal or iron)
+2 health from freshwater, unhealthy at pop 15 after harbor is done.
-whipping harbor+observ, last fades at T216. at T176 unhappy at pop 15, without big_5 happiness it would be pop 12.
-now has 12 base hammer without working any workshop, in caste it will have 25base hammer*1.25=31.

whip harbor, whip observ, slow build temple-aquduct?-IW(partial)-factory-park-IW completes

Canal
-still needs WP 610 to go, Intel agency.
+1 from forest, unhealthy at pop 14
-whipping observ, last fades at T205. After getting +2 from preserve, unhappy at pop 17 at T176
-7 base (2 mines), by working an engineer 9, 13 in caste/FR,29T to complete WP, not taking OF into account

whip observ, whip aqueduct?

Silver
-still needs drydock 120(100%+ for being aggressive) HE, temple 24/80
+1 from forest, unhealthy at pop 13 without harbor
-whipping observ, last fades at T223. extra from market. After getting +2 from preserve, unhappy at pop 17 at T176
+21 base commerce, +9 from specialists. observatory is still good.

whip observ, slow build harbor, temple, HE, drydock

Profit
-needs Confu Academy 300
-unhealthy at pop 13
-whipping observ+uni, T211 last fades.

whip observ, whip uni?-slow build Confu Academy

Whales
-still needs theatre 50, globe theatre 300, broadcast tower 250
-unhealthy now, with harbor unhealth at pop 13
-base hammer 11, work a priest 12. Without Org-religion 15h/turn, 20T to complete GT without OF
-whip observ+harbor, will disappear in 20~turns

OF into HE, harbor, whip harbor, whip observ- slow build GT, aqueduct?

Clams
-still needs Bank 10/200, WSJ 600, Grocer 150? harbor 80, temple 80
-unhealthy pop 14 without harbor
-has +4*5 workshops and +6 workshop,+4 mine

skip obs and uni? skip grocer
whip bank, OF into WSJ, slow build harbor temple

1 turn after getting astronomy, swtich to caste +FR

 

[MirrorGuard]

I'll be back in about 4 hours to update the PPP.

 

[WastinTime]

skip obs and uni? skip grocer
whip bank, OF into WSJ, slow build harbor temple

Agree on the skips. This city is working workshops.
We should use slavery while we have it. whip harbor & temple.

Observatories
It'd be nice to whip a few, but we can't if we do Caste 174. I think getting anarchy done before Astro is a bigger benefit. In fact, it's hard to say whether whipping away 3+pop is worth it for +25% vs just slow-building it. Losing 3 scientist is -27bpt and as you said, an observatory is around +10-15bpt (tho that is very city-dependent)

Let's take Science as an example
An observatory 2-whipped on 176 would do about 30/turn.
It would take exactly 4 extra turns to slow build it (6 turns total @25 hpt).
So, the early Observ gets 120 over those 4 turns.
The 2 whipped scientists do 36/turn. It will take 10 turns to recover that population: the whipped city is +4fpt over the non-whipped.
Conclusion: slow build observatory here. It's not even a close race as I suspect it won't be elsewhere altho Science is a special case.

Once we are in free religion, +2 will disappear?

Ugh. Sankore was kind of a bust

 

[Mitchum]

I agree with WT. Research is the critical path in this game (at least right now) so everything we do should be focused on getting our tech rate as high as possible as soon as possible. Of course, we still have all of the mandatory things that have to be built but we should be able to plan those and as long as they are completed by the final turn, we're fine. Many of these required buildings add little to no benefit (e.g. HE, drydock, cathedral, industrial park, etc.) so there is no huge rush to whip them.

 

[MirrorGuard]

In fact, it's hard to say whether whipping away 3+pop is worth it for +25% vs just slow-building it. Losing 3 scientist is -27bpt and as you said, an observatory is around +10-15bpt

But if we are to slow build obs, the extra citizens will be working on mines or workshops instead of scientists. No Org-religion bonus means an extra 150*1/6=25 hammer investment. OFC, no whip in science.

whip harbor & temple

Okay. Noted.

Research is the critical path in this game (at least right now) so everything we do should be focused on getting our tech rate as high as possible as soon as possible.

Ya. We need to get to Massmedia as soon as possible. If a building can generate net positive output in 28 turns, it won't delay UN or the date of victory. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

[MirrorGuard]

PPP T172-175 v1

v1 notes
slow build IW, no need to dump OF into it. It won't affect anything.
workers
switch to caste+FR 1 turn after getting astronomy from Peter and obs are whipped



Techs
0% steel until getting astronomy from Peter

Workers

Shepherd

T172-175 move to Fur and road

Heretic, Baitzilla

*T172~T174 build workshop 2W of clams
*T174~T176 build workshop 2W1N

Rex, Cowboy

*T172~T178 Preserve 1E of clams

Phillip

T169-173 Preserve Whales' forest
T174 road Deer
T175-181 Preserve Silver's forest
T182+ An ice-mine for silver? and preserve Silver's other forest (for happy)

Joan Dark

T172-173 Preserve Whales' forest
T174 road Deer
T175-181 Preserve Silver's 2W forest
T182+ An ice-mine for silver? and preserve Silver's other forest (for happy)

2 Captured workers

T172-174 build mine/ 1 left earlier to road 1S forest
T175~T176 road 1S forest
T177~T182 Preserve the NW forest



Ivory
*T173 unload onto canal mine
*T174~T176 Road the mine
*T177~T180 Road the hill 3S2E

Cities

HE schedule
!!HE complete in any city other than Silver=gg
166 profit
167 Cow
168 Whales
169 Profit (done 199)
170 Cow (done)
171 Clams
172 Whales (done-- a little short)
173 no where
174 Science (done) * work no engineer or horse
175 Silver~~
Any time needed: Silver - HE (could build it more in Clams first)

Science

T171-173 - wealth
T174 - HE !! make sure HE is not completed by not working engineer or horse
T175 ~- Observ


*Cow-
T172 Harbor
T173 2-whip harbor
T174 temple
T175 observatory
T176 whip obs




Canal

T172 aqueduct
T173 3-whip aqueduct
T174 WestPoint
T175 obs
T176 4-whip obs

Silver

T172 - wealth
T173 - HE, (work 4 merch from now on)
T174 - Temple
T175 -obs
T176 4-whip obs


Profit

T172~ ConfuAcademy--
T175 observ
T176 whip observ


*Whales

T172 HE
T173 harbor
T174 2-whip harbor
T175 obs-make sure +15
T176 3-whip obs



*Clams

T172 5-whip bank
T173 OF into Wall Street
T174~ harbor
T175 obs
T176 4-whip obs


Sitting Bull War
disarmament and evacuation
*disband 1 chariot in far south
get back all units in SB's territory

injured healer caravel and trireme move to 3S1E of canal



Units

Galley (West)

?? where is the exec's destination?(the one in whales)

Caravel 2
Send the exec to Paris

Galley 1 (cows)
T172 unload musket into 2N2W of canal and move towards canal SE
T174 move to ivory 1S to pick up the musket
T175~ ferry units to profit island

Galley 2
send muskets to profits

caravel 1 and trireme
move to 3S1E of canal and heal

Diplomacy

As long as Peter is just putting +1 on us.
*Eps to HRE

Peter
T172 economy for 100g
T175 corporation for Peter's caste system+gold+??
T175 sci Method for astronomy




All Russia + France + Arab + German demands will be accepted unless it is for civic switch or a bunch of
All Sitting Bull + HRE demands will be denied
All AI demands will be discussed with team if possible

Check Every Turn
Record values
Did Peter spend more than 1 against us? If so adjust slider.

Stopping Point
Anything unexpected happens
Peter finishes astronomy/beginning of T175 is reached whichever comes 1st.


70% complete

 

[WastinTime]

But if we are to slow build obs, the extra citizens will be working on mines or workshops

Not necessarily. Science does not work extra hammers, and it does not even work an engineer. to get 25 hpt.
Profit. same thing. Probably doesn't even work the stone, but a couple turns on that could pay off, play it by ear.
Each city can decide the best way or if it's better to skip the observatory.

Ya. We need to get to Massmedia as soon as possible. If a building can generate net positive output in 28 turns, it won't delay UN or the date of victory. That's the point I was trying to make.

Your calculations are sound. Thx for that, but I don't know that 28 turns is relevant. I think 48 turns is what matters. You calculated that MassMedia is due around T200 and I had the same estimate. However, if the UN can be built in 15 turns or 18 turns then it doesn't really matter if MassMedia slips to 202 or 205.

Normally, a UN victory is won as soon as you can finish the UN (so you ideally chop it in 1 turn), but that's not the case for us.

Another way to say it is: The UN will get built faster than we can research Refrigeration...blah, blah ... up thru about half of SuperConductors.

So I believe we should invest in things that give clear return in ~48 turns.