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[BTS] SGOTM 26 - The Indecisive

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Apr 23, 2020.

  1. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Right, I see now that 6R has a lack of happiness. I think we should build a market there to help with that.
     
  2. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    THe coal hammers will help to increase science too Folket. (well, need to check the ROI for each city still but...)
    Eiffel Tower: We need to evaluate its build time to decide how fast we want electricity. I might have time tmr evening for that.
    Corps: I don't think so, we have very few ressources. I haven't checked yet, but we should take the first one on our tech path which use either a GM or a GS to create the headquarter. It may be obvious, but I don't want us to prey for a specific GP. (well I opened the save again now to check CC, I'd say Cereal looks good).
    Improving science: Once the cities have grown, once we hire scientists and build science, it should be better :)
    National Park? dunno, what's the ROI?
    WS: yes, I would keep the forests for the Eiffel Tower.
    CC: Yeah, after the uni imo.

    Otherwise Good. We can build a partial Kremlin in Bibracte too as CP suggested, and we may want to build the IA whipping it into the Kremlin in 6W (sorry if I mess up cities, but you get it). Also I used one of our 2 Christian missionaries to send it to Russia (it all belongs to Mother Russia! :lol:), you may want to build one during your set (or not, we still have time, but felt like mentionning it incase it went unnoticed)
     
  3. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Note that no city is building either Itza or Wat right now.

    Just a few comments. Take us a ways if you have the time.


    When do we start on IA and Kremlin?
     
  4. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Right, of course we build Kremlin in 5W. I suggest we just slow build it for now. If anyone is getting Communism we can chop it.

    National Park in Bib should allow us to grow the city to size 20 really fast allowing us to run scientists there. They are 20 beaker each. If we save 5 food a turn with national park that is 50 beaker a turn so return of investment is 6 turns to first order. Maybe 10 turns is a better estimate. I think national park is greater return than fail gold here. I guess we will need market for happiness

    I suggest I play until Physics as we need to plan a GA at that time.
     
  5. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Go ahead!
     
  6. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Yes, please go ahead."

    Appreciate the explanation for a NP in Bib. Makes sense now. What about building one in TC after the CA?

    " I think national park is greater return than fail gold here." Not sure this is true if we are able to make multiple chops into fail gold for just one turn.

    Using GScientist from Physics (along with GM) instead of GSpy will allow us to avoid running artists during our first GA in order to have three different GPs for our second GA.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
  7. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    What is a CA? Looking around I do not see the NP being better anywhere else. We could build it in IT or 5W for specialists but I think it would be delayed for too long.

    I will play in 30-60 min.
     
  8. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    CA is a mis-type of GA.

    Thinking that with a factory and Ironworks and Industrial park there would be a need in TC.
     
  9. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    But NP would remove any access to coal which may not be great.
     
  10. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Ah, yes. So, perhaps if there is no coal there, or would that be too late?

    Sorry to slow you down.
     
  11. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    turn 171
    I did not trade with HRE as I want to get Arabia back to Cautious.

    turn 172
    We get GS and Communism.
    Christianity spreads to St Petersburg.
    I trade Printing Press for Banking and 100 gold.
    I sell music to France for 40 gold.
    I sell fur to France for 1 gpt.
    Lost vision of Peters research. Adjusted and put 100% of EP on Russia.

    turn 173
    Saladin got a great prophet. If he bulbs divine right that would be good.
    HRE does not want to buy our fur any more.

    turn 174
    I sell drama to Arabia for 10 gold. They are back to catious.

    turn 175
    Bismark builds Hagia Sophia.
    I sell Civil Service to Sitting Bull for 50 gold.

    turn 176
    We finish economics.
    France declared war on Arabia.
    I trade music to HRE for 100 gold and peace with Arabia.

    turn 177
    HRE demands paper. I reject his claims.
    Trade mission in Moscow for 2100 gold.

    turn 178
    I elect ourself as resident for the AP.
    Bismark got a great artist.
    Bismark has finished Nationalism.
    I cancel gems to Peter and sell gems to Charlemange for 7 gpt.
    Bismark is buiulding a new wonder with over 200 hammers invested.

    turn 179
    Russia founded Islam in Orenburg.

    turn 180
    Christianty spreads to Rostov.
    Russia starts Chemistry.
    I trade Chemistry for divine right, 100 gold and world map.
    Russia starts Steel.
    I gift fur to Bismark.

    turn 181
    I cancel deer to Peter.
    I gift deer to Bismark.
    I trade philosopåhy with France for 60 gold, peace with Arabia and world map.

    turn 183
    I trade away our world map to everyone for about 200 in total.

    turn 184
    Bismark finished the Chitchen Itza.
    Cancel fur trade with Saladin.
    Trade fur to Saladin for gold.

    turn 185
    2000 fail gold. I accidentatlly finishes dun in TC.

    Spoiler Log :

    Turn 171, 1110 AD: Balthasar Gerard (Great Spy) has been born in Bibracte (Lady Stoneheart)!
    Turn 171, 1110 AD: You have discovered Communism!
    Turn 171, 1110 AD: Beaver Bay (BB) celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
    Turn 171, 1110 AD: You have constructed a Aqueduct in Canal City (CC). Work has now begun on a University.
    Turn 171, 1110 AD: Christianity has spread in St. Petersburg.
    Turn 171, 1110 AD: Pachacuti (Great General) has been born in Mecca (Saladin)!

    Turn 172, 1120 AD: You have discovered Banking!
    Turn 172, 1120 AD: Beaver Bay (BB) celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
    Turn 172, 1120 AD: Sojourner Truth (Great Prophet) has been born in Najran (Saladin)!

    Turn 173, 1130 AD: You have constructed a Observatory in Twin Clams (TC). Work has now begun on a Dun.
    Turn 173, 1130 AD: You have constructed a Jewish Temple in Island Town IT. Work has now begun on Angkor Wat.

    Turn 174, 1140 AD: Bismarck has completed The Hagia Sophia!

    Turn 175, 1150 AD: Shah Jahan (Great Merchant) has been born in Bibracte (Lady Stoneheart)!
    Turn 175, 1150 AD: You have discovered Economics!
    Turn 175, 1150 AD: You have constructed a Jewish Temple in 6R. Work has now begun on Jewish Missionary.
    Turn 175, 1150 AD: Louis XIV has declared war on Saladin!

    Turn 176, 1160 AD: Charlemagne has made peace with Saladin!

    Turn 177, 1170 AD: Joseph Conrad (Great Artist) has been born in Berlin (Bismarck)!

    Turn 178, 1180 AD: Islam has been founded in Orenburg!
    Turn 178, 1180 AD: The Apostolic Palace voting members have announced their decision: Apostolic Palace Election (Winner Proposes Apostolic Palace Resolutions) (Requires 51 of 129 Total Votes)

    Turn 179, 1190 AD: Saladin adopts Vassalage!
    Turn 179, 1190 AD: Christianity has spread in Rostov.

    Turn 180, 1200 AD: You have discovered Divine Right!
    Turn 180, 1200 AD: Bismarck adopts Caste System!
    Turn 180, 1200 AD: Charlemagne adopts Vassalage!

    Turn 181, 1210 AD: Louis XIV has made peace with Saladin!
    Turn 181, 1210 AD: You have trained Jewish Missionary in Bibracte. Work has now begun on Jewish Missionary.
    Turn 181, 1210 AD: You have trained Jewish Missionary in 6R West (5W). Work has now begun on The Kremlin.

    Turn 183, 1230 AD: Island Town IT will become unhealthy on the next turn.
    Turn 183, 1230 AD: Peter has 150 gold available for trade.
    Turn 183, 1230 AD: Charlemagne has 50 gold available for trade.
    Turn 183, 1230 AD: Judaism has spread in Berlin.
    Turn 183, 1230 AD: Island Town IT will grow to size 13 on the next turn.
    Turn 183, 1230 AD: Bismarck has completed Chichen Itza!
    Turn 183, 1230 AD: Sitting Bull adopts Bureaucracy!

    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Bibracte can hurry Jewish Temple for 1⇴ with 40ℤ overflow, 8ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Beaver Bay (BB) can hurry Jewish Temple for 2⇴ with 27ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Island Town IT has grown to size 13.
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Island Town IT has become unhealthy.
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Saladin will trade Gold
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Deal Canceled: Fur to Saladin for Gold Per Turn (2)
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Bibracte will grow to size 19 on the next turn.
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Francis Bacon (Great Scientist) has been born in Bibracte (Lady Stoneheart)!
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: You have discovered Physics!
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: You have discovered a source of Uranium near Beaver Bay (BB)!
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: You have discovered a source of Uranium near Beaver Bay (BB)!
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Bibracte can no longer work on Chichen Itza. The lost ℤ is converted into 430ℴ!
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Beaver Bay (BB) can no longer work on Chichen Itza. The lost ℤ is converted into 195ℴ!
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Twin Clams (TC) can no longer work on Chichen Itza. The lost ℤ is converted into 362ℴ!
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: You have constructed a Dun in Twin Clams (TC). Work has now begun on a Market.
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Canal City (CC) can no longer work on Chichen Itza. The lost ℤ is converted into 481ℴ!
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: 6R West (5W) can no longer work on Chichen Itza. The lost ℤ is converted into 479ℴ!
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Island Town IT can no longer work on Chichen Itza. The lost ℤ is converted into 83ℴ!
    Turn 184, 1240 AD: Taoism has spread in Moundville.

    Turn 185, 1250 AD: Bibracte has grown to size 19.
    Turn 185, 1250 AD: Bibracte can hurry Angkor Wat for 2⇴ with 38ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
    Turn 185, 1250 AD: 6R will become unhealthy on the next turn.
    Turn 185, 1250 AD: Canal City (CC) can hurry University of Sankore for 8⇴ with 28ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 17 turns.
     
  12. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Peter has somehow wrecked his economy. We will get Steel from him but unlikely to get anything else. I started to convert Bismark to Judaism. We should be able to get him to Friendly.

    Should we just gift all our techs to everyone to increase the tech pace of the AIs? If we tech everything ourselves we will not be competitive.
     
  13. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    “Peter has somehow wrecked his economy.” He settled four poor and distant cities.

    “Should we just gift all our techs to everyone to increase the tech pace of the AIs? If we tech everything ourselves we will not be competitive.” I’d look for opportunities to sell them, of course, and we would need to hold onto some to trade for techs they research, but, other than someone else building the ETower, don’t see what we would be risking?


    Do you want to continue playing? If not, here is the essence of my planning. Will fill out with feedback.

    Tech path: RP>ST>AL>EL

    Time for GA with a GSc and a GM. Cities to run specialists: Bib, CC, 6R, and CC

    Which GPs are optimal to create?

    Need one for Corp but perhaps from our next GA. (BTW, can we create Cereal Mills in IT even though it has no cereals in its area?)

    Thinking we can speed research some if we get superfluous GPs: GSCs could bulb Electricity and/or Refrigeration; GM Industrialism, GE with Electricity (if we don’t have Steel). At least that’s the way I think it works in Vanilla. Needs to be double checked.

    Do we want to put some spy points on Bis so we will know his research when we get him to Friendly?

    Concur with getting to Friendly with Bis. You are not building more Jewish missionaries, so will two converted cities (making three) be sufficient. Do we want a backup missionary? Target cities: Cologne and Hamburg? We could go to Free Religion for a while within a GA (not going to be building much then). Thinking that would help but would the Friendly last after we switched back to OR?

    Whip barracks in IT into harbor.

    Why UofS in CC? Is it for failed gold or science from religious buildings? Why wouldn’t a Customs House be about the same cost and more valuable, especially if we go to Free Market?

    Propose building CHs in CC and in BB (whipping Jewish Temple into it). Workers on BB forests – are they farming and chopping to completion?

    5W: Chop one forest into Kremlin, to take two turns off finish date, and build CH

    6R: Globe

    Bib: Complete Jewish Temple and build science

    Aqueduct in TC, then CH;
     
  14. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    I am assuming the UoS is for gold in CC Cactus, we can't build more than 6 wonders and 1 corp headquarter.
     
  15. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    We need to keep a GM for cereal. I would not use the one from economics. We just need to have one ressource iirc Pete, not necessarily in the city radius though.

    edit: and well done Folket! Great round :)
     
  16. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    I think we could build the Spiral Minaret for fail gold in Bibracte.
    Custom house: failed gold from UoS is worth approx 2400 beakers and costs 275 hammers. CH is 180 hammers and gives 3 commerce per turn. I cannot see the CH being better before 200 turns.
    TC still lacks its uni.
     
  17. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    "I am assuming the UoS is for gold in CC Cactus, we can't build more than 6 wonders and 1 corp headquarter." Yes, of course. Thanks.

    "We need to keep a GM for cereal. I would not use the one from economics. Can't we use a different GM for a different corp if we have to? Looked at specialist cities and creating another GM during this GA is clearly problematic, but, if we save the GM and use the GSc and GSpy, it will to be awkward to create the two different GPs in addition to a Gscientist (from Bib) that are necessary for a third GA. Thinking that running merchant specialists this GA (everywhere, at least until we create one, except in Bib) is much better than running artists. Even if we fail to create a GM this GA, we can probably create a GM in our final GA.

    We just need to have one ressource iirc Pete, not necessarily in the city radius though." So, if we have, say, wheat connected from anywhere in our civ, that's sufficient?

    A CH will yield about 14 gpt, while a uni will yield about 10 beakers per turn, and the CH is a little cheaper. Am I missing something here?

    Waiting for folket. Fine with him continuing to play; or, he can give feedback and I will flush out my plan, including details on running specialists.
     
  18. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    I have missed something if a ch is worth 14 got. I guess that is after Corp which is quite far away. I'm confused as to how getting gms is difficult. At the moment I'm wondering if we have built too much fail gold.
     
  19. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Concur about abundance of fail gold. Getting the GPs you want is difficult We have not been running GMs in our specialist cities, so other GPs are real probabilities.
     
  20. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Do you have a gp plan or shall I make one when I get home?
     

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