[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Unusual Suspects

[ChrisShaffer]

I don't think we can wait until oil, since we have to build a dun in every city.

 

[SittinDown]

Dun is obsolete with gunpowder.

Could be possible: Scientific Method -> (Printing Press) & (Chemistry || Astro) ->

But then there's no point to waiting that long to found your 7th city.

 

[SittinDown]

I can play to writing if nobody else wants to step up - though I already had a turn playing.

That'll really open up our discussion. I'll hold of on my thoughts there until we finish writing so we don't go down a rabbit hole.

 

[kcd_swede]

Dun is obsolete with gunpowder.

Could be possible: Scientific Method -> (Printing Press) & (Chemistry || Astro) ->

But then there's no point to waiting that long to found your 7th city.

We can turn rice into oil if we have to.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Just a reminder that I can't open the save or play. No access to Windows or BUFFY. Just lurking and commenting based on what I see on the forum.

 

[kcd_swede]

OK, well... everyone has had some time to jump in, but are being coy. SittinDown is up (to writing). The usual conditions for pause apply, but its a short set and fairly straightforward, so no point delaying.

 

[SittinDown]

@Noble Zarkon - I made a mistake in my last play - I finished my turn set, but I forgot to save after the last turn. I restored the autosave from the beginning of the last turn I had started. I had moved a couple of scouting units, and I have moved them again to the same positions they were in. Apologies for the mistake - fortunately, the game should be unaltered, as I had only moved a couple of work-boats for scouting, and now they're in the same spot they were.

 

[SittinDown]

Turn Set:

Followed our plan. Nothing major happened. I had some overflow from the 1st worker in Vienne, so I put 13 H into SH for a turn, which we hadn't talked about, but it seemed smart.

SB is willing to open borders, and we have 2 work boats ready to scout it out if desired.

Some new map info -

• North island has elephants.
• South island also has stone.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I made a mistake in my last play

OK noted, thanks for letting us know.

@AlanH for awareness.

 

[kcd_swede]

Turn Set:

Followed our plan. Nothing major happened. I had some overflow from the 1st worker in Vienne, so I put 13 H into SH for a turn, which we hadn't talked about, but it seemed smart.

SB is willing to open borders, and we have 2 work boats ready to scout it out if desired.

Some new map info -

• North island has elephants.
• South island also has stone.

Good job, now things can start happening.

I think OB with Sitting Bull is a slam dunk, and the wb can check out what he's got. But of course there are bigger things to answer. Library in Bib should be a priority - and if CS sling is on the table we should work on a GSci for bulbing math. I think tech-wise that finding copper is next priority, but sailing for lighthouses is also good to have. Then again, if we are aiming for a sling of some kind, our tech path becomes more determinate. I assume SB's espionage has still not changed, so I doubt the limited tech trading can justify alphabet otherwise.

Any thoughts/comments?

 

[SittinDown]

His espionage is unchanged. Sailing also adds +2 commerce, and opens up foreign trade routes with Cahoka, so it does add probably at least +3 - +4 GPT.

 

[SittinDown]

Here were the demographics if anyone was interested:

I'm not quite sure what we can learn from them at this point.

Biggest surprise may be that another rival has as much population as we do!

 

[SittinDown]

MAJOR ALERT:

I just noticed that Dun is obsolete with RIFLING, not Gunpowder. So we have significantly more time to found a last city, if we want.

 

[kcd_swede]

Here were the demographics if anyone was interested:

I'm not quite sure what we can learn from them at this point.

Biggest surprise may be that another rival has as much population as we do!

...without the same land area. I bet its a nice city location. As I understand it, population doesn't scale exactly with city size, so if its a singhle city its what, about size 7?

 

[SittinDown]

Ok - so tech choices.....

Good ones:

• Sailing - More trade routes. More food. Can GLH.
• Mining - For the Silver. Gotta find metals. Not that useful by itself, but cheap. (3T at 100%).
  
• Wheel - Useful for boosting happy cap (pretty sure that Furs and Silver need roads) and building chariots to avoid a DOW.
• Mediation - Meditation leads to Oracle. Lack of meditation leads to ignorance. (Head towards Oracle.)

Am I missing any other good choices? I'm only going off of memory.

Ok:

• Alpha - SB probably won't trade anything useful in this situation.
  
• Masonry - Maybe try for non-stone Pyramids? Very hard to build without BW. I used to like mids more, but that was before I got good at using HR with warriors.
  
• Math - Too early - no immediate benefit yet.

I like Sailing next. It opens up off-shore settlement and I think it doesn't hurt our CS sling potential because of the econ boost. Also seems like Mining and Mediation are okay.

Is the main point of CS to get Beuro? Cause this isn't exactly an text-book Beuro cap kinda game.

I'm thinking Code of Laws for Confucian is our best bet for founding a religion.

 

[SittinDown]

Outside of tech choices - I think doing a library in Bib, and fail gold in Vienne is a good choice, while our workers keep doing their thing. Though they're going to run out of useful stuff to do soon without more tech.
Without a border pop, there is nothing for the NW worker to do. and Bib's worker will have nothing to do after improve the furs except farming brown river tiles.

WB scouting is the main movement-action.

Cities should probably build libraries as needed, we're going to run out of good tiles to run quickly on this map, so scientists are a good option. (Rep scientists would be nice, but mids is probably a post-CS sling idea).

 

[kcd_swede]

In interest of keeping workers doing stuff, mining>wheel seems the most immediate, then sailing. I don't know how many turns before worker is ready to start mining or roading, though. If we say we need all three of the techs mining-wheel-sailing, and we don't need to worry about worker turns, then sailing first followed by mining-wheel is probably quickest to get all three.

I wouldn't feel right going for CS-sling without some basic techs. And if we are close to ready to settle another city, it would sure be nice to have BW somewhere in the top 3 as well, before we do. Since mining leads to BW, I'm leaning toward mining-sailing-bw-wheel. You wanna test some scenarios? What does everyone else see that I am missing? Recall I have not played much BtS in several years.

 

[Zhary]

If we go for a Cs sling then we should head for Oracle now. The ais doesn't seem to nerfed so we would expect an oracle date around turn 70. However I would like to keep the astro bulb path open until we know more about the eventuall semi isolated situation.
Bib is not a super buro cap(+ ~12com and 6 hammers)anyway and the biggest gain with the sling is the free cs itself.

Mining should be timed with the arrival with our wandering worker. Silver is by far the best spot that exist over there.
I think my vote would be
Mining->Sailing->oracle tech->wheel/bw
Chop out oracle, oracle aest for glib.

 

[Zhary]

I've just asked in the main thread if bc tower by Eiffel would count. That would open up religious victory again and we might make a bet on tgl again. That would rule out oracle and mids thou.

 

[SittinDown]

I like mining now too - there are plenty of mines for us to keep busy with. Tolosa can have good production without chop/whip. 2 food tiles, 1 fur, 2 PH - i think that's 11 H and size 5. would be nice to get into OR and some forges.

Mining is a must have. I think Sailing is economically a nice-to-have, but strategically a must-have. Maybe scouting will show a good city site on the other side of SB on the same landmass, for instance, that we could grab first.

Oracle Aest? Interesting - I've never Oracled something so cheap (300). I usually have no trouble grabbing the GLB if I prioritize it. My instinct is to Oracle something more expensive, like CS, or Machinery. It's Emperor, so we have a little more time I think.

I think it's a mistake to head for Oracle directly now without grabbing Mining or Sailing. Seems okay to grab BW after we get Meditation & Priesthood.

Take a look at my post on page 1 for a reference on wonders

• GLH / Eiffel / UN are all mutually exclusive. You can only pick one.
  
• Eiffel and AP do not rule out Mids.

GLH is only so-so in isolation though.