SGOTM 9 - jeffelammar

[TimBentley]

The tobacco should be rocks and there's some oysters that aren't showing on the screenshot.

It would be nice if there was a BG under that forest: that would allow a 6-turn archer-warrior-settler factory.

 

[denyd]

Thanks for the reminder to reload the SGOTM resources when I get my system back (hopefully later today).

 

[AlanH]

lurker's comment: You shouldn't ever have to remove them. when you are playing normal games they are ignored. Only vanilla players could be affected, as they don't have separate scenario folders. And even they aren't in this case because the SGTOM resources are backwards compatible.

 

[denyd]

AlanH: My system is currently having the HD re-formatted and Windows 2000 re-installed (thank you very much Civ IV), so I have to install all of my software including Civ III series.

 

[AlanH]

Sorry to hear that, Denyd. It seems a bit extreme for a simple application installation to bring down an entire system

 

[Jove]

Okay, I've uploaded the save, here's the link:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Jeffelammar_SG009_BC3050_01.SAV

My 2 bits (that's 0-3 cents in binary):
-There is a game in the forest to the south. It is possible to settle on the coast in such a way that the game and the cow are shared, allowing us 2-turn growth. Might be worth looking into... it's the only food bonus I found. We could move a settler pump to that location even though we'll already have a granary, allowing us a really really large wonder-building capitol. Maybe a BW detour is worth it at some point, if we get the Colossus, we'll make up the 4 turns for sure... of course, meeting someone would be nice too....

-If we pause to build up military, it slows down growth at first, but the pop growth boosts our science and production in the long run. I haven't done the math, just an impression that it could be good for the space race. I'm picturing 2 warriors, then 2 quick settlers, a food one and a strategic one.

- The capitol's governor is set for 'Max Production' at the moment.

- Check it out: on the score graph, at least up until 3050BC, we're in 1st place!!!!!

- Sorry about the tobacco. After failing to run Civ4 after about 100 attempts, I guess I was just glad it worked at all I'll fix it.

 

[denyd]

AlanH: I was defending in a city against an Incan Elephant when the game hung (probably shock over Incans with Elephants). I tried to soft boot (Ctrl-Alt-Del) and when that failed I tried to shutdown (Ctrl-Alt-Del again). Eventually I powered off the system and when I tried to re-boot it, I got an unaccessable_boot_segment error which according to the office PC guru is a signal either something in the O/S got corrupted or the HD has crashed. Since I get the Win 2K splash screen, option #2 was eliminated, leaving a HD re-format (to skip bad spots) and re-load the O/S, say goodbye everything else on the HD. Fortunately I have a back up from June of my text & spreadsheet files & pictures and they haven't changed much if at all since then. Of course I'm now tasked with reloading the 3 Civ games and applying the patchs & GOTM file set. One of the good things about this is I'll have a much cleaner system after he's done.

 

[Jove]

I installed the proper graphics and uploaded the updated screenshot. Please check it out on the previous page. The oysters weren't showing up, and there's some lambs due east

@denyd: I think it'd be good to take over India's initial location at some point. He controls a lot of bonus tiles! All we need is for him to be a wandering settler, herded to settle someplace acceptable.
Sorry about your system meltdown. Same think happened to me about a year ago. No fun.

 

[Gyathaar]

AlanH: I was defending in a city against an Incan Elephant when the game hung (probably shock over Incans with Elephants). I tried to soft boot (Ctrl-Alt-Del) and when that failed I tried to shutdown (Ctrl-Alt-Del again). Eventually I powered off the system and when I tried to re-boot it, I got an unaccessable_boot_segment error which according to the office PC guru is a signal either something in the O/S got corrupted or the HD has crashed. Since I get the Win 2K splash screen, option #2 was eliminated, leaving a HD re-format (to skip bad spots) and re-load the O/S, say goodbye everything else on the HD. Fortunately I have a back up from June of my text & spreadsheet files & pictures and they haven't changed much if at all since then. Of course I'm now tasked with reloading the 3 Civ games and applying the patchs & GOTM file set. One of the good things about this is I'll have a much cleaner system after he's done.

I have actually had 2 different machines crash in exactly same way the last 6 months.. (well, except from not running civ4)
first machine I managed to salvage everything with a lot of work.. only to have the HD crash totally 2 months later. 2nd time I didnt bother and just bought a new HD when it happened (and transferred data while it was still accessible - didnt loose data first time either thou.. took backups while getting it up again)

 

[AlanH]

Hmm. I don't think Civ4 was necessarily the guilty party here. Sounds like an accident was waiting to happen, and Civ4 happened to be loitering on that street corner at the time. I had a hard drive meltdown last month as well. Isn't system recovery fun ... Not!

Incan elephants?

 

[Paul#42]

Nice job, Jove! Good timing with research (using sea tiles).

Jove
Paul#42
pindicator
TimBentley
CKS
denyd
jeffelammar

I need to bring up the line up again. As I stated I am right inside a new job since yesterday so I will not play before weekend. So skip me or rather put me down to slot 3 or 4. Or wait till I declare "got it" on friday...

I would suggest pindicator to continue.

 

[Jove]

Thanks Paul#42.

I'm ok either way with the roster changes. Paul suggests Pindicator next. What does the rest of the team think? Wait until Friday, or change the roster?

And, what next?

 

[pindicator]

i will be gone to the parents this weekend, so won't be able to play on the 19th or 20th until the evening.

 

[CKS]

I have no preferences on skips/trades/waiting.

The oysters and lambs are nice additions.

 

[jeffelammar]

I need to bring up the line up again. As I stated I am right inside a new job since yesterday so I will not play before weekend. So skip me or rather put me down to slot 3 or 4. Or wait till I declare "got it" on friday...

I would suggest pindicator to continue.

Go Pindicator

New Roster
Jove
pindicator << UP
TimBentley << On Deck
Paul#42
CKS
denyd
jeffelammar

 

[denyd]

I got my system back today and will be loading CIV on this evening.

I'm also going to be out of town 11/23-27. (sorry about all this down time)

After Pindicator turnset we should have a better feel for the lay of the land and it would probably be a good time for a dot map for future cities. I'd like to be sure that we have a canal city to allow ships produced in the capital access to the ocean.

 

[jeffelammar]

I will also be away TG weekend Nov 23-28.

I should be online to make comments, but won't do turns then.

Looking at this land, If we get a unit out on the Hill in the west soon, we should keep other AIs from wanting to crank their way around the west side of Ghandi's lake since. This will help keep down India's contacts.

With this start, I've come up with another possible long term strat.

We can keep Ghandi bottled up for a long time here. I think we have the opportunity to make use of a couple things we discussed earlier with one more twist.

Keep Ghandi locked in Delhi for most of the game.
We use the Great Library Elevator to boost him as much as we can. Letting him keep the GL town for 2 turns then re-taking it.
Once that is done, we make sure he gets contact with others.
Now we fund his research using a reverse of what we did in SGOTM 7 (An AW variant).
- For the new players, there was a cash rich AI, and would leave a city open for him to take. Then we would take it back for a huge $$$$ boost. If we build up a huge $$$ surplus we could do the reverse with India.

We perform a conquest, leaving each of several civs with two cities. Now we can give them techs and let them sell to India. Once we are ready for Ghandi to build his ship, we surrender our old core to him.

I like this, because it leaves us in control of what Ghandi does for most of the game. I'd hate to have to do all sorts of work to trim him down from a conquest win...

 

[pindicator]

Got it and will play later tonight. Looks like my ten will just be general scouting, but I'll try to get us the scoop on the lands west of India.

 

[pindicator]

Save for the future!

I took 11 turns to even out the turn and year count. Not that there was much to do Didn't explore much as I wanted to keep the warriors for MPs and keeping the science going. There is a very important set-up for Trondheim that will require MMing the city in 2 turns. Please read it and follow through on it, as it is the best way to get the settler out.

Met the Mongolians. They came from the northeast. They undoubtably will find India. And they probably aren't too far either, considering the year.

4) 2850BC
Worker cuts trees last IBT, which lines up the Granary perfectly. No BG under that tree either
Maximize commerce in Trondheim for the turn.
Yellow warrior comes into view and its the Mongols. Defense is next, boys and girls!

Mongols have BW and lack Alphabet. I'm not going to give it to them. The bad news is there is no way to keep them from India.

IBT-
Trondheim: Granary -> Warrior

6) 2750BC
Trondheim grows to size 5 last IBT and luxuries go to 20% to keep them happy and growing.

7) 2710BC
Nada

IBT-
Trondheim: Warrior -> Warrior
Both warriors are for MP duty.

8) 2670BC
Lux to 10%. Running 1gpt deficit at 90% science.

9) 2630BC
Science to 80%

IBT-
Learn Mysticism.
I know there was discussion on this at some point in the thread, but I'm not finding it. I'm setting research to Polytheism; I think that was what was written that we should do and it makes the most sense to me. Learn Polytheism and then trade or research Writing and then Philo.
However, Polytheism takes 30 turns and if we think that's too many then feel free to veto with only one turn wasted.

10) 2590BC

IBT-
Trondheim: Warrior -> Settler

11) 2550BC

And that's that!
Okay, settler has yet to have any shields put in it. Our worker has 3 turns left to finish its mine, and...

..and that's not gonna add up right.

So here is what we want to do with Trondheim. Settler and growth in six turns, so read close. I'm setting up the first part.

#1 - For the first two turns (Turn 0 - 2550BC & Turn 1 - 2510BC) one of the citizens in Trondheim is picked up from lake duty and placed on the incense. We do lose a commerce, but we also gain a (much-needed) shield.
#2 - On turn #2 (2470BC) take the citizen back off the incense and put him back on the lake tile so we keep out science maxed. We should have two (12 counting the granary) food stored up and 10 shields stored.
#3 - On the IBT the worker finishes his mine, putting us back on 5spt. We should have 2/10 food in the box and 10/30 shields towards the settler. At +2 food per turn and +5 shields per turn, that makes 4 turns to hit the settler with growth!

Running more shields loses commerce and growth and only gains one turn on the settler.

I didn't scout, if you notice, because I want to keep our research cranking. But do so if you wish.

 

[Jove]

I like it.

Am I allowed to download the save to check it out? I'm holding off for now, as I'm not sure...

My first impression is: We've met someone with BW. So contact isn't the same priority anymore, we can build the Colossus if we act fast. So, I vote settling the second town nearby, either in a place where it can share the cow and the game (otherwise Trondheim will just waste 2 food every growth cycle), or to the NW to start immediately on the Colossus (and we really do want faster science). If we go for food, we could go for a second granary and start on the Colossus in Trondheim, but that might not really be optimal. We could start on a second granary and pump settlers from Trondheim until it's done, and build the Colossus in the 3rd city, a 'canal' in the 4th. Another worker or two is a good idea if we're serious about building wonders.

I favor sticking with Polytheism. Now that we're ready to grow, that 30 turns is going to shrink fast. I guess Mongolia has Mysticism?...

If Mongolia does meet India, it may already be time to start talking about Mongol-cide.