SGOTM 9 - Smurkz

ControlFreak said:
niklas said:
I have to ask, what does this mean? Not being native to the language sometimes shows I'm afraid.
This was the first I noticed that english is not your native language.
@niklas, I thought you were an US citizen teaching abroad, your english is that good.
What really convinced me you were a transplant was
And even though I'm not all that old, I did recognize the Raw Hide song. After all, Blues Brothers is one of the coolest movies ever...
back in Post #61.
Shazam! and Well, goooolly! as one Marine private might say.

Civ Assist
I do have CivAssist, but it is a bit tricky to operate on my machine. This PC is old enough to go to school. PII 500MHz and 128MB (and only two slots for memory!). While I was playing I had the game open, Notepad open and IE open and pointing here. In addition to such utilities as Cacheman and TaskInfo. (My wife was going to bed, I could have closed some of her applications. Next time.) My available RAM frequently hits '0' so adding CivAssist to the mix is a little bit much. It takes 5 minutes for CivAssist to covert the World Map into a .jpg for this size world; a huge map takes about 15 minutes.

I like CivAssist, but it is not a good fit on my machine when I am playing the game. And when I have had it running and gaming, I could not always get to it. I have come to the conclusion it is my machine and not the program.
 
AlanH said:
Testing - is there really a page 9?
There is now. I guess the server had a hiccup whilst I was a-posting?
 
Hmm.
I got an error page, but my message was posted. I could see it when I used the back button and then refreshed this page.
 
ControlFreak said:
...I recommend shifting 'heim to use the lamb plus lake and BG to finish the settler in 2 at +3fpt. We can run from 4.0 to 6.0 for two more settlers before switching to archer/settler mode (the first archer can be adjusted to put us back on 4.5-6.5 track). Then 'grad should use the cow for faster growth. Also, make sure that you leave one of the mined BG within reach of 'adelphia since it will need a 2shield tile when it grows.

Good thought to let 'grad use the cow. We can get the settler quicker if 'heim uses lamb, lake, 3 BG's for settler in 1 at 3 fpt. (That leaves no bg for 'adelphia though). After that 4 turn settlers, perhaps a worker as well.

zyxy, any idea when you plan to play? I'm trying to figure out when I'm going to need to plan for my turn.

I'll play thursday evening. Proposed plan:

- Min science, min lux (currently 10%, 20%).
- MM 'heim for settl in 1, after that a 2 turn worker followed by 4 turn settlers for at least 2 cycles.
- 'grad warrior -> temple. EDIT: or scout instead of warrior?
- 'adelphia: warrior -> rax -> warriors.
- Settle Deertown, FP town in that order.
- Send one worker north to improve around FP town, one to 'grad to hook up incense and improve. Others can chop and improve around Deertown.
- Deertown: temple.
- FP town: Palace prebuild.
- scout1 straight south, explore west of 'grad. Scout2 continue through Carthage. Warrior-scout continue along the rim. No more scouts needed I think.
- no trade for Mysticism under current circumstances. Wait for better deals.
 
CommandoBob said:
I do have CivAssist, but it is a bit tricky to operate on my machine. This PC is old enough to go to school....

:lol:

Maybe Mapstat would work for you. It's officially called CrpSuite, and can be found in the same forum as CivAssist. It has less eyecandy, but also uses much less memory.
 
zyxy said:
Maybe Mapstat would work for you. It's officially called CrpSuite, and can be found in the same forum as CivAssist. It has less eyecandy, but also uses much less memory.

I program on a mainframe; just straight text and keyboard commands. Eyecandy to me is having colored letters! :)

I will check it out once I get home from church.
 
I'm not sure we want to let 'heim drop back to size 3. Let 'adelphia have the BG.

Temples are 60s. I think I would rather have granarys than temples at this point. We're still food poor. You can check MapStat for the flip chance. I would bet that we could prevent flipping with a unit or two, which we're going to be making for MP anyway.
 
zyxy said:
Maybe Mapstat would work for you. It's officially called CrpSuite, and can be found in the same forum as CivAssist. It has less eyecandy, but also uses much less memory.

Thanks, zyxy, for pointing me to CRpSuite! I like it a lot better than CivAssist, though I prefer the CivAssist maps. The myriad colors in CivAssist may have been too distracting.

The MapStat that is installed from CRpSuite, this is spoiler-free? The GOTM exploits page is not somewhat vague on this, at least to me.
 
CB, Mapstat is spoiler-free as far as I know. It is allowed in GOTM and SGOTM. Just make sure not to turn on the spoiler options (the default settings are ok).

ControlFreak said:
I'm not sure we want to let 'heim drop back to size 3. Let 'adelphia have the BG.

Probably both will get the tile, because on the IT 'heim will lose pop before 'adelphia grows. 'heim will still do 4 turn settlers starting at 3.5, so why not?
If we want 'heim to be bigger, we can have it build a warrior at some point to grow one notch.

Temples are 60s. I think I would rather have granarys than temples at this point. We're still food poor. You can check MapStat for the flip chance. I would bet that we could prevent flipping with a unit or two, which we're going to be making for MP anyway.

Good point!
So perhaps 'grad can be another military town, while Deertown could get a granary and do settlers/workers. Revised plan:

- Min science, min lux (currently 10%, 20%).
- MM 'heim for settl in 1, after that a 2 turn worker followed by 4 turn settlers for at least 2 cycles. Perhaps slot in a warrior for larger pop.
- 'grad warrior -> rax -> warriors.
- 'adelphia: warrior -> rax -> warriors.
- Settle Deertown, FP town in that order.
- Send one worker north to improve around FP town, one to 'grad to hook up incense and improve. Others can chop and improve around Deertown.
- Deertown: granary.
- FP town: Palace prebuild.
- scout1 straight south, explore west of 'grad. Scout2 continue through Carthage. Warrior-scout continue along the rim.
- no trade for Mysticism under current circumstances. Wait for better deals.
 
After about 2h of sleep last night I don't know how much you should care about what I say now, but... :crazyeye:

I definitely agree on scrapping the temples. Until we jump our capitol away, we should be able to keep our towns from flipping with units only (CF, up to 55 now? ;)).

Regarding the size of Heim, I'm a bit ambivalent. Now that our town count is increasing, we might be better off at a smaller size and lower lux rate. On the other hand it's nice to have a town that could be boosted for quick production should we need it, and we'll get extra commerce from the extra citizen to counter the increased lux rate. But I think smaller is better for now (oh, back to 50 again :(), until we want to leave 4-turn settler mode.

I'm now going home to get some sleep, and then I'll be back and post something more useful and involved. Don't be surprised if I contradict myself completely...

Oh, and thanks for the compliments on my english. I know I'm good, most of my daily work is done in english, but it's nice to hear I'm good enough to fool the real natives. ;)
 
zyxy said:
Probably both will get the tile, because on the IT 'heim will lose pop before 'adelphia grows. 'heim will still do 4 turn settlers starting at 3.5, so why not?
Great points, I didn't think 3-5 settlers were possible but you are right, 3.5-5.5 settlers can be done in 4 turns.

I was thinking we were better with the larger pop so we don't have unused, improved tiles. But now that we have other cities, it's going to start getting crowded so it's probably better to run at the smaller population. We are really going to have to watch our MM :scan: . BGs will have to be constantly swapped as 'heim goes up and down two sizes.

Good thinking on the BG being available for 'adelphia. I hope the governor is smart enough to do this. I guess we should zoom to 'heim when it builds the settler to make sure one of the BG's near 'adelphia is available.

I'm happy with your plan. Go for it!

So everyone knows, I'm going to have to play Friday or I'm going to run out of time. I have a lot of stuff to prepare for for our trip over Thanksgiving. So get your discussion quickly after zyxy plays!:whip:

Niklas said:
...(CF, up to 55 now? )...(oh, back to 50 again )...
I guess you catch on quickly.;) I'm shooting to stay at 50% anyway.:p Now go get some :sleep: !
 
Niklas said:
Oh, and thanks for the compliments on my english. I know I'm good, most of my daily work is done in english, but it's nice to hear I'm good enough to fool the real natives. ;)

Well, considering that one of the natives wrote this:
CommandoBob said:
The GOTM exploits page is not somewhat vague on this, at least to me.

maybe I should be learning English from you! :eek:

zyxy said:
CB, Mapstat is spoiler-free as far as I know. It is allowed in GOTM and SGOTM. Just make sure not to turn on the spoiler options (the default settings are ok).
Great! A lot less to worry about.
 
A few more hours of sleep in my body and I feel like a whole new person!
(And now the forum works again so I can finally post this :))

Smurksheim
I touched up my spreadsheet to work for Heim in the current situation. It shows Heim working as a 4-turn factory at 3.5->5.5, and the transition to a 5-turn archer-settler factory at 4.5->6.5. Again, don't take the actual turns literally.
View attachment 104158

FP town
I had a notion that moving the FP one tile to the west, to where the mongol scout is currently. The rationale was that the coast is close in the east, and by settling one tile west we'd be able to get more towns inside the RCP-5 disk. But it turns out there's no real difference, moving one tile to the west just brings a bunch of mountains into the disk, so the number of locations to settle certainly wouldn't increase. Besides, with our current planned location for the FP a bunch of ring 5 towns will end up by the river, which is nice.
So, my point is that we should settle where we've planned to, just wanted to save anyone else from the trouble of investigating the same thing. ;)

Where to put the Indians?
We've discussed briefly where to put our own two cores. I think the locations are well chosen, since what we will need more than anything is commerce, for fast research. Between those two areas we cover all currently visible rivers on our home continent. So, not much to discuss there, those will be our cores.

But then where to put the Indian core?
We need to put it somewhere with good production capacity clearly, but also with some nice commerce to make India able to keep up in tech. Looking at our home continent, the only area not covered by our own intended cores is the Carthaginian homelands. That land does have some nice properties, lots of hills and grasslands (some of it currently jungled) will make for good production. Hopefully the land extends to the west some bit as well, though it looks dangerously as if it's lands end beyond Carthage itself.

What's the alternative? If we don't put the Indians up in Carthage, and our continent indeed ends right there, the only other options are either to give India one of our cores, or to set them up off-continent. The former is clearly less desirable, and while the latter might be appealing if we find some nice land it will probably be very hard to facilitate.

I don't have the answer to this, but I think we should have it in mind from the very start, later on it might be hard to turn the whole ship around. If the Carthaginian lands are not what they should be, perhaps we need to consider giving away one of our own cores. Since the FP doesn't move it would have to be the palace core. That land gives both good production and commerce, so if it wasn't for the fact that we wanted it ourselves it would be ideal as the Indian core. However, I'm thinking it's a lot easier to relocate us off-continent than Gargamandhi. Perhaps we should keep looking for a nice second core for ourselves?

Miscellaneous stuff
zyxy, I think your new plans are good, so go ahead and play. Keep a lookout for trades, though I suspect waiting for Writing is probably the best way to go.

ControlFreak, it's all good that you play Friday, that means I get the chance to play during the weekend. :)
If I were to play in the middle of the week I'd probably have to skip the way things look now. Only one more really intense week left though, then things are starting to look a lot better for me.
 
Turn 0, 2190BC: sci 10%, lux 20%. MM 'heim for +3 fd, settl in 1. Switch 'grad to scout, and MM for +4 fd.

IT: 'heim settler -> worker. Free a bg for 'adelphia.

Turn 1, 2150BC: lux 0%. Scout scouts out heavily defended Carthage and sees a fifth lux!
SGOTM9_Smurkz_Carthage_2150BC.jpg


I do a diplo check: Carthage has 2 cities (including capital) and silks hooked up (no spares), Ottomans have 2 cities and spices hooked up (no spares), Mongols have 2 cities, no luxes. India has 1 city and no luxes. Meaning: with 3, nearly 4 cities we are already ahead of these guys!

Turn 2, 2110BC: Ottomans now have Pottery. Scout2 sees a Carthaginian settler. They are getting close to the choke, so I'll use our scout to block the choke. MM 'heim for +5 fd, 'grad has to give up the cows.

IT: a barb appears near 'grad. 'heim worker -> settler. 'adelphia warrior -> rax. 'grad scout -> warrior.

Turn 3, 2070BC: Oy Deer! settled, starts granary. Our scout sees more silks near Carthage. New worker will build a road to the FP site, 2 other workers go to the deer tile to chop.

Turn 4, 2030BC: Carthage now has 3 cities. The barb has fortified. India indeed is in an inland lake. Interesting, we'll have to make sure they can get out:
SGOTM9_Smurkz_Indianlockup_2030BC.jpg


Our scout reaches the southern tip of Carthage:
SGOTM9_Smurkz_Carthage_2030BC.jpg


Turn 5, 1990BC: barb warrior has moved. Our worker starts roading a bg.
 
(continued)

Turn 6, 1950BC: barb warrior has stepped on incense hill. lux 20%, extra warrior to 'grad for defense.

IT: 'heim settl -> settl. 'grad warrior -> rax.

Turn 7, 1910BC: barb advances another step. lux back to 0%. Worker3 to cows. settler to FP site. Carthage has another settler (unescorted this time, they are so lucky our scout cannot attack :) ), Ottomans and Mongols are still at 2 cities.

IT: 'delphia rax -> archer.

Turn 8, 1870BC: the barb has gone too far, and we attack:
SGOTM9_Smurkz_barbkill_1870BC.jpg


Carthaginians continue their dangerous mission:
SGOTM9_Smurkz_itsdangerous_1870BC.jpg


Turn 9, 1830BC: India now has Iron Working. But do they have iron?
This lowers the price Mongols ask for it, so
Mongols: Iron Working +13 <-> Alphabet + Masonry.
Mongols have iron hooked up, and India also has iron :lol:. We have a source in our backyard:
SGOTM9_Smurkz_iron_sources_1830BC.jpg


Ottomans have no iron sources, and will probably get Iron Working somehow, so I make the best deal possible:
Ottomans: Mysticism <-> Iron Working

Nothing else to trade for. Oddly enough, Carthage is 2 techs down. Perhaps they are researching an expensive tech like Writing or Math. Our scout runs into a barb camp, I hope he survives:
SGOTM9_Smurkz_scoutingbarbs_1830BC.jpg


Settle House of the Beard, it starts a palace prebuild for the FP. workers start irrigating and roading the deer.

Turn 10, 1790BC: lux to 10%. several barbs come to threaten our scout:
SGOTM9_Smurkz_barbthreat_1790BC.jpg

But we are too fast of course. Worker2 starts roading the incense.

IT: 'heim settler -> settler.

Turn 11, 1750BC: Mongols have the Wheel now. Ottomans have a third city (maybe for a few turns already), Mongols still at 2. Nice for them. barbs play "follow the leader":
SGOTM9_Smurkz_barbs_follow_the_lead.jpg

But again the leader is too quick :). I move our warrior up to help at the choke.

notes:
  • The palace is a prebuild for the FP.
  • 'heim can be run as a 4 turn settler factory, using cow + lambs always, all other citizens working bg's. That gives a surplus of 2 shields per cycle, so you can work a lake tile once. You'll need 10% lux at turn 4 of the cycle.
  • Holding the chokes with scout will not work for long if there are barbs around. Better send some warriors I think.
  • The settler is unmoved and can go to the SE spot in our dotmaps.
  • We need more workers. Perhaps 'heim could do a worker now, before the settler. Oy Deer! should be able to take over as workerfactory after the granary is done.

The save.
 
Looking good! :goodjob:
Good calls on the tech deals, and soon we get Writing. :)

Gotta go to bed now though, still have a few hours to catch up. Will look at the save tomorrow.
 
Forum is back up, it seems... is it overloaded?

Some miscellaneous thoughts:

We'll soon get writing, and I think we should sell/trade contacts then, as India is already falling behind. I would set research to Philo and CoL at max, after that republic at min.

Although Carthage is still escorting settlers with warriors, it is I think too late for an archer rush on Carthage. That's bad, because they are expanding fast. Maybe we can get some fights going up north? Not sure about this...

India needs at least a city in the rim to get out of the prison. Resettling them to Carthage will not work as there is not enough land. Moreover there is a unique lux there. The north region could work, and we can probably get a tundra town on a dyes source. The best however would be if we can get India to another continent. That would also limit the warfare. It's too early to say if it will work, it will probably take until astonomy at least...

A slightly ambitious dotmap. The numbers indicate distance to the FP, RCP 5 around the palace would be good and gives us 4 cities at rank 0, and at least 3 at rank 1. Most of these inner cities have good commerce potential. There is room for more cities at the question marks:
SGOTM9_Smurkz_dotmap_1750BC.jpg
 
zyxy said:
Forum is back up, it seems... is it overloaded?

You're computer too? My whole internet went down. Just figured it was adware/spyware so cleaned that out. Hmm, interesting.

Great turnset zyxy! Interesting challenge with India. Looks like we are unable to boost them out of their capitol for some time.
 
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