SGOTM 9 - Wacken

[WackenOpenAir]

Not too much worries yet, the first turnsets we don't need to gift anything yet.

-Bombers have lethal bombardment
-Cities will keep their improvements when gifted

For the later destruction of the Indian capital:
Ok, we build the stuff to do this, but we should also build all non cultural buildings available. That includes granaries in every city for example. Simply every building available without culture should be build.

I have one remaining question, what is the hitrate from bombers vs artillery. Bombers do 3 damage, so they have the advantage there. Do they both hit units equally often ?

Gifting city:
We follow the plan as i described in 13 steps, we will of course not forget to gift the technology before they capture the library.

We gift them Reykjavik and let them conquer Birka first and oslo last so that they will have to concentrate on units for fast capture first. Since they wont have anything to build but units, they will be capturing fast and we don't need to gift them cities very early. I suggest we gift them the first city 10-15 (maybe slighly more ? we have plenty time to decide that more exact) turns before we ETA our needed tech. We do not significantly slow them down in their capture. We might have to research our last tech or 2 without our core. That is not a problem. It will be slower, but during that time, they will be replacing the lost buildings and they can always already start the components they have available with the other techs.

We should also build appolo for them in advance. That way, their cities can all start building components asap.

Golden Age
We make sure they have acces to no resources before they captured the library and build an elephant. We attack the elephant as soon as we see one with a warrior. (You will see the damn RNG makes our warrior win )

 

[gozpel]

We have 4 mighty warriors, so that shouldn't be a problem I rather worry they won't build anything but spears

Golden Age otherwise? With some luck, they start building Manhattan right away and then they nuke us to oblivion

In my experience, arties and bombers are quite equal in success rate, but I have no figure on it. Maybe slightly lower for arties, as they seem to hit 3/4 and bombers around 4/5. It can be my imagination though.

I was thinking 20 turns before estimated date, but 10-15 is probably enough. Just to make them build them units.

Apollo Program is a small wonder and will disappear, so do NOT build that. But I would like a prebuild for SETI in our best science city:

SETI Program - Doubles science output of city
Cost: 1000
Culture: 3
Requires: Computers
Expires: Never

With very expensive techs next era I think this could help somewhat? Or we can do with just research labs as soon as we get the Internet?

Manufacturing plants? If we give away our core too early, just forget this.

 

[gozpel]

I also think we should build up all non-6-pop towns up to the limit. We might need every scientist possible in a couple of turnsets and I want all cities possible on 6 or more pop. We may have to consider mass starving only to keep the science rate up, every tech-turn is important.

And again, get rid of a couple of useless island towns, I hate sitting on 65%. Maybe you have better control of it, I don't have the new civassist.

 

[Offa]

As things stand flips to the Spanish may well take us below 65%.

It is a blow about small wonders. That means the iron works etc will be lost.

When the time comes we can of course gift the Ottoman lots of cash which the indians will capture.

Does anyone know how to make a civ with whom we are at constant war concentrate on space. Perhaps nearly finishing our own ship will spur them on.
How much land should we concede?

 

[gozpel]

I simply don't like having 65%, I'd prefer 64% and then rely on flips.

Their production will be ok, even if they lose Iron Works, well at least after they capture Hoovers.

How to spur them on to spaceship? Damn good question, we might have to start to build it ourselves, but does that really make the AI more interested?

UN?

 

[Offa]

Gozpel, if you consult the territory graph you will see that our erstwhile rivals, they who cannot be named, had a lot more territory than us (a lot more than 65%, ). So it obviously didn't bother them.

 

[Xevious]

Halfway through my turnset, will finish in the morning.

If I start TOE in Birka next turn, it will finish right after we enter the modern age (9 turns). If I start in Trondheim in 2 turns, it will finish 16 turns later, or right after we learn our 2nd modern tech. Any input would be helpful. Obviously we want it to finish the same turn as we learn a tech.

 

[gozpel]

Offa: Well, it bothers me anyways. I can't figure out that graph, how could they get away with that? That smiley is very appropriate.

Xevious: We don't want TOE yet, save it for the most expensive techs as Wacken said:

Minitiurization 320
Robotics 320

Is it too early for a pre-build on Internet?

I haven't heard any objections yet about the bombers/arties, if everyone is alright with that idea, you might as well start on that. Well, arties for now at least.

Did I say I like that idea? Well I do.

And just to repeat myself and Wacken, we gift Reykjavik 10-20 turns before we get all techs. I'm wondering a lot about this. since we don't know what our techpace will be in the next era.

So try to get all towns up to 6 pop, at least. We might have to use a starvation regime soon.

 

[Xevious]

Ok, I already have most of the towns at size 4 or 5 already from worker joins. I realized overnight that when hoovers is done it would have thrown off my TOE times anyways. However, since we are going to get a free tech from Otto, it might not be a bad idea to force TOE to be done sooner. Miniturization and Robotics are right behind Computers. So we only need one tech in the modern age before we can use TOE. If Otto gets computers we research another and trade for it, otherwise we research it ourselves. In either case, in 14 to 16 turns (from 1100AD where I am now) we can use TOE. Internet is under minituarization so we can't use TOE as a prebuild for that, though we could use a palace build for it. I am currently making brunch for the family (too late for breakfast really), but I will be back to this shortly. I will probably do some more calculations first and post again.

 

[Xevious]

Ok, I've switched to palace in Karasjok as a prebuild for Internet. It is at 36 turns now, Hoover comes in 5 turns, which should shave 8 turns off. That gives us 28 turns to get Miniaturization. I am halfway through flight, with Mass Prod and Motor Trans left after that, for 10 turns until Modern Age.

If Otto gets either computers or fission, we research the other and trade, then do Nuclear and laser, with TOE timed to gives us mini and robots. This adds 12 turns, meaning 22 turns total (from now).

If Otto gets Ecology or Rocketry, we do Computers and Fission ourselves, adding another 4 turns for 26 turns until we need TOE.

In either case we can steal some more shields for Karasjok to speed up the prebuild depending on what happens to Otto.

I chose Karasjok because it is not one of the first towns we'll be giving to India and that we we will still get some use out of the internet to help get our last techs.

Any comments on this before I finish my turns?

 

[Xevious]

Guess not, so here we go:

1050AD(0) Finish a couple worker moves. Bit of MM. Culture expansion isn't a problem, Hippo in 15 turns, Alesund in 28, Bergen in 29. Don't think we have anything to worry about.

1060AD(1) Banks to Stock in Bodo, Bergen. Factory to Uni in Karasjok. Factory to Bank in Odense.

1070AD(2) Trondheim:Stock to Transport. Reykjavik:Bank to Stock. Oslo:Bank to Stock. Birka:Suffrage to Stock. Stavanger:Bank to Stock. New Farsund flips to Spain, dropping us to 64%. Sci->70%.

1080AD(3) Electronics->Flight@90%. Copenhagen:Bank to Stock. Hippo:Uni to Duct. Vadso:Uni to Factory, stealing tiles from Stavanger to get it down to 13 turns. Switch Stockholm to Hoover (due in 7).

1090AD(4) Sci->80%. Nearly finished with irrigation/rails. Start joining workers (natives to drop unit cost to 0).

1100AD(5) Trondheim:Transport to Inf. Birka:Stock to Inf. Switch Karasjok to Palace (Internet prebuild). Finish all irrigation/railing on other continent. Join workers to make as many scientists as possible over there. Able to drop slider to 40%(from 80%!!!) and still finish flight in 2. I don't think we'll have too much worry about finishing techs in 4. We should build up a ton of cash by the time we start losing core cities (currently at +628gpt). I've loaded a bunch of slaves onto ships to go improve some of the islands. There are about 40 slaves still left on other continent.

1110AD(6) Renew spices for 9gpt with Spain. Birka:Granary->Inf.

1120AD(7) Flight->Mass Prod@20%. Aarhus:Factory->Bomber. Odense:Bank->Bomber. Rush Duct in Hippo for 240g. Switch Trond and Birka to Bombers.

1130AD(8) Renew peace with spain, but lose furs. Trond:Bomber->Bomber. Bergen:Stock->Bomber. Reyk:Stock->Bomber. Oslo:Stock->Bomber. Birka:Bomber->Wall Street. Hippouct->Granary. Hippo expands, back up to 65%. Drop sci->10%.

1140AD(9) Trade Industry to Spain for gems and furs. Bodo:Stock->Bomber.

1150AD(10) Stockholm:Hoover->Inf. Stavanger:Stock->Bomber. MM Birka to get 99 shields. Mine mountain and start railing, then realize if I had mined one of the plains, I could have got the extra shield. Maybe next player can do that. Then we can get 1 turn inf or bomber there and do TOE in 6 turns when we are ready.

Science should be fine for the rest of the game. We are running less than 20% to finish Industrial age techs at 4 turns. All the extra gold can help run deficit later when we are researching without our core.

We are at 65% area, but next expansion is in Birka in 11 turns, which won't add any area, then Bergen in 19 which will add 1 or 2 sea tiles.

We need to gift Otto into Modern and then get Computers, Fission, Nuclear, Lasers and then have TOE done to get Mini and Robo. TOE should be started halfway through Nuclear, in Birka (assuming we get it to 100 uncorrupted shields as explained above). Oh, and then switch Palace prebuild in Karasjok to Internet.

 

[Wotan]

OK, looks good. Will probably play tomorrow. Will gift Otto into modern and continue researching modern era techs at 4 turns.

Suggestions beyond that?

 

[gozpel]

Nothing else than that we need some 25-30 bombers and arties, I think that should do the trick.

With some MM-ing we can get 40 and 50 shields in most good cities and Birka can make 1-turn bombers with the mined plain as Xevious said.

 

[gozpel]

I wonder about gifting a city to Osman, it won't have any units in it and if an Indian units stands in their new territory, will they be able to "meet"?

And if they do and the indian get booted, will Osman have time to build a defensive unit?

 

[AlanH]

Offa: Well, it bothers me anyways. I can't figure out that graph, how could they get away with that? That smiley is very appropriate.

lurker's comment: The territory graph shows total tile count, including sea tiles. But sea tiles don't count towards the domination limit.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Ah the science at 20%. Behold the power of ICS

 

[Wotan]

Hi guys, sorry about the silence but I had to resurrect my computer. It went dead during the weekend and I finally have it up and running again. Will try to finish my turns tonight.

 

[Xevious]

That's really weird, I just saw a bunch of postings in CivIV strat forum that I thought were you and now I see they are from Wodan, who uses the same icon as you.

 

[Wotan]

Turn log

0 – 1150AD
My ten turns looks like they will be a smooth ride until MA, then some gifting to Ottomans and trading followed by another 5 turns of uneventful research. Hit return.

1 – 1160AD
A few Bombers built, started building new Bombers.

2 – 1170AD
Wall Street finished in Birka. A couple of Bombers.

3 – 1180AD
Bombers and a single Infantry.

4 – 1190AD
Bombers! We have 16 now. Will build until we have 25 then change to Tanks.

5 – 1200AD
We enter the Modern Age. Trade Corporation and Scientific Method for Nationalism from Ottomans. Gift Ottomans into IA, they get Fission! But are not interested in parting with it for less than, 9k gold, ~400 gpt, all resources and all luxuries. I decide to steal it, first attempt at 2742 gold fails, second attempt successful and we now proceed to study Computers. 4 turns, but at 100%!!!

6 – 1210AD
A few Bombers.

7 – 1220AD
A couple of Bombers, switching finished Bomber builders to Tank now.

8 – 1230AD
Not much.

9 – 1240AD
Computers finished, Miniaturization will take 5 turns, no chance of getting it to 4… I have MMed a lot but cannot reach the magic number of bpt. So we go for two four turn research projects and then switch to Mini in an attempt to give us opportunity to build a few Research Labs in our major research locations. That should push us above the required number of bpt to finish Mini in four turns as the third project from now. So we should pursue Ecology and Rocketry before Miniaturization. Karashok will finish the Internet in 13 turns.

10 – 1250AD
First Research Lab built in Birka.

After Action Report:

A rather uneventful set of turns the most exciting events were the Age change and trading with Ottos for their tech or rather stealing it from them. And the MM attempts at 1240AD to get enough shields for Miniaturization. Finish Ecology switch to Rocketry and then Miniaturization. We should have enough bpt by then to finish it in 4 turns… Karashok will finish the Internet in 12 turns, the turn after we get Miniaturization, or in worst case if we still lack the ability to research it in 4 turn, on the same turn as we get the tech.

EDIT: Damn, I had to restart civ and move the few works that are active in 1250AD since I forot to save after finishing. Thank god for autosaves...

 

[Offa]

Could we not have researched a couple of modern techs ourselves and trade these for fission, rather than stealing?