SGOTM2 Germany - Team Peanut

[Peglegasus]

I suspect (as Bigchief showed) that the AI is programmed to not call a vote if they know that they will lose.

I played diplo in gotm 31 and carthage built the UN but didn't call the vote for about 50 years. There was one abstain, carthage voted for itself of course, greece voted carthage, and everyone else voted for me. I think the AI won't call the vote unless at least ONE other civ will vote for them. I think carthage waited for the vote because no one else was going to vote for them at that particular time.

computer back in order now and ready for some more action! i'd like to play the next one with you guys too! Go, Team Peanut!

 

[civ_steve]

Well I'm back home and I thought I'd take a look at a couple of situations that occurred at the end of our game.

First, Gandhi declaring war on us. In our SOD, only a few Workers have actually done anything this turn. We move everybody else forward leaving them exposed and India declares war. It appears he did this to gain a few cheap workers so I played around with defending them.

Case1: Leave entire SOD with Workers, no declaration (so it is tied to defense)
Case2: Leave 1 MechInf with Workers, still declares War
Case3: Leave 5 MechInf with Workers, still declares War
Case4: Leave 5 MechInf, 5 Panzers with Workers, still declares War
Case5: Leave 5 of Everything with Workers, no declaration
Case6: Leave 1 MechInf, 1 Artillery with Workers, NO DECLARATION.

So, in this case at least, the presence of 1 Defensive unit and 1 Artillery prevented Gandhi from attacking. The Artillery, for whatever reason, seems to be the key ingredient.

I also wanted to investigate the whole China building UN and calling a vote, or not, with India at war or not, and what sorts of diplomacy affected things.

First, assuming India is at war with us before we declare against China. I never quite followed Peanut's time line, and I never quite got a vote. In one case I got France and Japan allied vs China, and ROP's with everybody - no vote. Then I dropped the Alliances and sign ROP's with everybody - no vote. Then I signed a ROP with only France (since they switched on us, just to see if I can keep them on our side) - still no vote. So it appears that any improvement of the diplomatic status ended in a no vote. So I played it straight up, no diplomacy, and got a shocker: India gets Russia to ally against us, and we lose the vote, 3-4!!! The overall outcome is extremely sensitive to RNG effects; making or not making a particular trade or diplomacy deal can sway the results dramatically.

I also looked at what happens if we keep India from declaring War before we declare on China. I did the Artillery thing. In 1405 I moved everybody up to the Chinese border. In 1410 I declare on China, taking Hangchow, moving bulk of SOD to within 2 spaces of Beijing. All my units were either in or adjacent to Hangchow, or in Chinese territory; none were in Indian territory. India still declares War on us. I suspect China has a trade position to make to buy India into the war. China builds the UN, but doesn't call the vote.

I think it was really fortunate to win when we did; in a more controlled situation, I don't think China would have called the vote and we would have won according to bigchief's test results.

 

[bigchief]

India ended up declaring war on us in my test. At that time there was no soft target anywhere. They were still in an alliance with us against China. We still had gifts going to them and active trades. They were gracious towards us. In Peanut's turns the unguarded workers were enough of an incentive for him to do it then. In Steve's test, there doesn't seem to be any rational reasoning going on as to whether, or not, to declare. In my test, when he declared, we had one stack, about 20 strong, consisting of Artillery, MI, and MA on the mountain near Hangchow along the Indian border. We had another stack of about 20 in the airfield that I built, and Hangchow and Beijing were both defended by a minumum of 10 defenders. I had even sent some Mech Infantries and Modern Armors over to our Island, because of the Japanese movement on the island, and both of our towns there were well defended.

I think Gandhi was determined to declare war from the moment he dropped the spear on our island, and was just looking for the right moment. The ungarded workers provided that right moment. In all the other cases, there was not really a "right moment", so I figure it was just a RNG thing as to when he declared war.

I have seen this behaviour by the AI in some of my games. I recently had a game where one of my neighbors sent some troops into my territory. There was no reason for them to be there, and I decided that they were going to declare war on me. I was much stronger than they were, but I really didn't want a war with them at that point, so I gifted them some luxuries and 50 GPT. I figured that would surely tip the balance in my favor, and they would go back home, rather than loose the gifts and ultimately commit suicide. They ended up declaring anyway.

It seems that once they decide to declare war, it is just a matter of WHEN rather than IF, and there is nothing that will change their mind.

 

[civ_steve]

Yes, in this set-up it seems inevitable.

It would be interesting to know if it was the ROP with India, and then the large stack of units, followed by us using the ROP to declare on China that generated the declaration of war from India. I'd have to go back to one of my autosaves from before posting the 1400 save to check that out.

I think just about all of us have signed up for SGOTM3, which will be an entirely different game!

 

[Peglegasus]

I've started a game as rome playing with the next succession game rules and its quite fun. haven't gotten far yet (still in ancient age) but it's an interesting change for sure. trying to develop some good strategies...

 

[planetfall]

planetfall: The next game is a very good game, and doesn't start till 13th. Do you want to be put in the roster? With one skip you wouldn't need to play until August.

Agreed, it looks like a good game. However, I must skip at least one SGOTM.

I have some Java that's too far overdue. Thank you for the gracious invite.

PF