SGOTM21 Lurker's Thread
- Thread starter Deckhand
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/waves
3rd place was always most likely for PR yeps, different team structures.
Not the same dedication and amount of high level players, but Izuul was our city micro master ~~
Oh well, wish i had taken such breaks earlier i am already a different person (again). Have fun everybody!
Good to see you are doing better Fippy. The break for the team was 100% the right decision. Just make sure any changes you make you stick to. I think we all want you about on forum but not at expense of your health.
PR would of put in a solid game here and I think at least 3rd would of been possible given our strong start. Matching the micro of TSR and PD would of been a huge ask later on and would of taken us 2-3 hundreds hours over the last 1-2 months. I don't think either PD or TSR has pretty much put a foot wrong yet. Strategies were different but very much intended. E.g. PD going for Oracle.
Xteam to finish T178? Is it doable?? Possible maybe as techs tend to go much faster as the game draws to a close. 20% tech discounts make total beakers required much less. Of course they still need to complete the quests of the 3 ladies hearts. I guess AP requires much less war. Plus 8-12 turns off top team is possible with the micro they have used. I don't see them matching TSR current 2200 beakers a turn in a golden age. They won't have 44 cities. Hmmm.
Frederiksberg
Deity
I think XTeams T178 estimate is "earliest possible" rather than expected. Tech rate will clearly be their bottleneck. TSR is aiming for a T170 finish and PD for T174. So far my prediction of the laurel winners is looking good 
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Izuul
Level 86
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The T174 for PD appears to be an estimate to complete techs, and not actually finish the game. It actually seemed a bit conservative to me though, i think they will average even more beakers than Kaitzilla projected there. Anyway, once Industrialism is researched the teams still need to build tanks and transport them into Cathy's capitol. I haven't read the threads closely enough to see how they plan to do that and how long it might take. I would imagine they could just cold whip all the tanks in 1T, but not sure if they will be able to move Cathy's capitol to some place more convenient.
Looking at the techs remaining for PD and TSR, it appears PD are about 8775 beakers behind at the T157 save. I didn't look too closely at beakers already invested in current techs, but neither had many and it looked pretty close. Both teams need Railroad, Combustion, Constitution, Corporations, Assembly Line, and Industrialism, however PD will get Constitution via trade with Mansa. PD lacks Replaceable Parts, Rifling, and Steam Power that TSR already have.
Total beakers needed (again not counting the few they have invested in current techs):
TSR - 37,699
PD - 46,474
Kaitzilla also mentioned possibly teching Fascism for a GG to use for the military parade, but i didn't include that here.
Given current research rates PD are ~4T behind, but i would expect these to climb so it could be less than that later. PD seem to have more room for beaker growth once they get units out and start building research, but they are running out of time to catch up, and they also just civic switched into PS + Slavery to, presumably, whip a bunch of units.
Looking at the techs remaining for PD and TSR, it appears PD are about 8775 beakers behind at the T157 save. I didn't look too closely at beakers already invested in current techs, but neither had many and it looked pretty close. Both teams need Railroad, Combustion, Constitution, Corporations, Assembly Line, and Industrialism, however PD will get Constitution via trade with Mansa. PD lacks Replaceable Parts, Rifling, and Steam Power that TSR already have.
Total beakers needed (again not counting the few they have invested in current techs):
TSR - 37,699
PD - 46,474
Kaitzilla also mentioned possibly teching Fascism for a GG to use for the military parade, but i didn't include that here.
Given current research rates PD are ~4T behind, but i would expect these to climb so it could be less than that later. PD seem to have more room for beaker growth once they get units out and start building research, but they are running out of time to catch up, and they also just civic switched into PS + Slavery to, presumably, whip a bunch of units.
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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I believe TSR has the plan to relocate cathy's capital, coldwhip the tanks, and then transport them in 1 turn via Galleon chains. I think they will come out a lot earlier than the 4T of research they're missing. It's really amazing, how Lowther and Wastin make plans and handle the game.
TSR has won Isabella's heart by giving her beautiful summer Palace. Now they are planning something called a Red Wedding.
Spoiler :
Izuul
Level 86
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PD is gonna get Const and Corp from Mansa; that's a nice boost for them. I think best case for them is still several turns behind TSR though. They are running into the issue where these cities they are capturing won't come out of revolt in time to get the tiles for Domination. I think soon they will have to start razing and resettling everything.
Another fantastic game by TSR though.
Another fantastic game by TSR though.
Pangaea
Rock N Roller
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It makes it extra exciting that the two best teams have played almost exactly the same amount of turns, and are more or less equal in terms of when they will finish. TSR are perhaps a little ahead, but it should be pretty close. I see TSR are talking about a T171 finish. But it looks like tight timing at the end, with lots more warring. They also need to raze and resettle some spots. The play of both these teams is incredibly impressive.
elitetroops
Deity
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Howdy lurkers! 
First of all, a big Thank You to the map makers for the scenario! Was a lot of fun! I liked very much the idea with having to buy clues, and having to figure out when to do so.
My only minor quarrel with the setup is the order of the clues. There's no way you can reach Cathy's first objective sooner than the second. First objective requires at least fission, most likely also plastics, and it also requires a lot of conquest which has to be directed in a specific direction to acquire the resources. The second requires less techs and you can fulfill it in 2 turns after finishing teching, no matter what you have conquered. If the 2nd objective had required 6 air units instead (either bring 2 extra fighters on a carrier, or gift Cathy flight in hope that she would build an airport), then the order would have been correct. In that case her capital should probably have been coastal.
Same goes for the other 2 leaders. Building Colossus will for sure happen before you get a 50XP naval unit, and you can gift a desert palace to Isabella sooner than you can scrape together those 3 Great People (nobody is going to gift her the first three GP generated). I suppose the plan was that you wanted to reward those who bought all the clues early. But this also punished those who bought the first clues as early as possible, as those were all pretty late goals, and none of them could go obsolete, so there really was no rush to get them.
But these are no major complaints, I really liked the game! Good job mapmakers!
Overall I'm very happy with our game. Unfortunately we were a bit short on players, lost 2/5 players mysteriously without notice, and KCD was also very busy with other stuff during the 2nd half of the game, so we were pretty much alone with Zhary in figuring out the late game. But we made it work, somehow..
Our biggest setback would have been the first war against Willem. We went in under-prepared and the attack failed, delaying capture of Amsterdam with more than 5 turns. On top of that Shaka declared on us while our army was still wounded from the war against Willem, and we were put in a pretty tight defensive spot. This can be clearly seen in the graph on the progress page when we suddenly fall behind all the other teams around t110. The war against Willem was put together very quickly, we decided to seize the opportunity and declare asap when he was at war with Shaka, with very short preparation. That one's on me, Shaka declared on Willem when I had a couple of turns left of my planned turnset. I should have stopped right there so that we could have immediately reacted and readjusted our plans for war, but for some reason I finished the turnset as planned. Don't remember now what our goals were at that time.
I skimmed through this thread and it seems a lot of teams met Mansa or Isabella, or both, very early. We didn't meet anyone from the other continents until Optics t103... Not sure how much this affected the outcome. Guess we have ourselves to blame for not exploring that southern passage.
Has anyone kept track of the techpaths of the different teams? How many teams bulbed astro? I'm not at all sure if this was the right decision, or if it would have been better to head for earlier CS and Edu. What techs have the other teams libbed?
I posted some screens from our final stages in our thread, if anyone is interested.
First of all, a big Thank You to the map makers for the scenario! Was a lot of fun! I liked very much the idea with having to buy clues, and having to figure out when to do so.
My only minor quarrel with the setup is the order of the clues. There's no way you can reach Cathy's first objective sooner than the second. First objective requires at least fission, most likely also plastics, and it also requires a lot of conquest which has to be directed in a specific direction to acquire the resources. The second requires less techs and you can fulfill it in 2 turns after finishing teching, no matter what you have conquered. If the 2nd objective had required 6 air units instead (either bring 2 extra fighters on a carrier, or gift Cathy flight in hope that she would build an airport), then the order would have been correct. In that case her capital should probably have been coastal.
Same goes for the other 2 leaders. Building Colossus will for sure happen before you get a 50XP naval unit, and you can gift a desert palace to Isabella sooner than you can scrape together those 3 Great People (nobody is going to gift her the first three GP generated). I suppose the plan was that you wanted to reward those who bought all the clues early. But this also punished those who bought the first clues as early as possible, as those were all pretty late goals, and none of them could go obsolete, so there really was no rush to get them.
But these are no major complaints, I really liked the game! Good job mapmakers!
Overall I'm very happy with our game. Unfortunately we were a bit short on players, lost 2/5 players mysteriously without notice, and KCD was also very busy with other stuff during the 2nd half of the game, so we were pretty much alone with Zhary in figuring out the late game. But we made it work, somehow..
Our biggest setback would have been the first war against Willem. We went in under-prepared and the attack failed, delaying capture of Amsterdam with more than 5 turns. On top of that Shaka declared on us while our army was still wounded from the war against Willem, and we were put in a pretty tight defensive spot. This can be clearly seen in the graph on the progress page when we suddenly fall behind all the other teams around t110. The war against Willem was put together very quickly, we decided to seize the opportunity and declare asap when he was at war with Shaka, with very short preparation. That one's on me, Shaka declared on Willem when I had a couple of turns left of my planned turnset. I should have stopped right there so that we could have immediately reacted and readjusted our plans for war, but for some reason I finished the turnset as planned. Don't remember now what our goals were at that time.
I skimmed through this thread and it seems a lot of teams met Mansa or Isabella, or both, very early. We didn't meet anyone from the other continents until Optics t103... Not sure how much this affected the outcome. Guess we have ourselves to blame for not exploring that southern passage.
Has anyone kept track of the techpaths of the different teams? How many teams bulbed astro? I'm not at all sure if this was the right decision, or if it would have been better to head for earlier CS and Edu. What techs have the other teams libbed?
I posted some screens from our final stages in our thread, if anyone is interested.
WillowBrook
Lurker
I can't guarantee my notes are accurate, but here's what I have. I have likely missed some bulbs and haven't noted where multiple bulbs were used for bigger techs.
Fifth Element:
Bulbed astronomy t115, education t129, sci meth t159
Libbed physics t161
Jag alskar er:
Bulbled astronomy t114, education t142
Oracled metal casting t71
Libbed communism t153
Misfit Gypsy Nuts:
Bulbed machinery t101, printing press t168
Libbed nationalism t156
Researched astronomy t133 and education t137 (no record of bulbs, but I may have missed it)
Phoenix Rising:
Bulbed astronomy t103eek
Plastic Ducks:
Bulbed math t59, sci meth t145
Oracled currency t62
Libbed physics t146
Traded for astronomy t145
Researched education t124
PD circumnavigated with a workboat, figuring out that they didn't need early astro.
Shawshank Redemption:
Bulbed education t128, printing press t130, sci meth t132, physics t145, electricity t150, chem t153
Libbed communism t135
Researched astro t117
Xteam:
Bulbed alphabet t56, education t118 (possibly more to come)
Oracled civil service t70
Libbed astro t130
In each game except FE and JAE, Izzy's workboat found Pericles between t57 and t65. Mansa found PR, TSR, and Xteam between t66 and t71. PD found him t67.
Fifth Element:
Bulbed astronomy t115, education t129, sci meth t159
Libbed physics t161
Jag alskar er:
Bulbled astronomy t114, education t142
Oracled metal casting t71
Libbed communism t153
Misfit Gypsy Nuts:
Bulbed machinery t101, printing press t168
Libbed nationalism t156
Researched astronomy t133 and education t137 (no record of bulbs, but I may have missed it)
Phoenix Rising:
Bulbed astronomy t103
eekPlastic Ducks:
Bulbed math t59, sci meth t145
Oracled currency t62
Libbed physics t146
Traded for astronomy t145
Researched education t124
PD circumnavigated with a workboat, figuring out that they didn't need early astro.
Shawshank Redemption:
Bulbed education t128, printing press t130, sci meth t132, physics t145, electricity t150, chem t153
Libbed communism t135
Researched astro t117
Xteam:
Bulbed alphabet t56, education t118 (possibly more to come)
Oracled civil service t70
Libbed astro t130
In each game except FE and JAE, Izzy's workboat found Pericles between t57 and t65. Mansa found PR, TSR, and Xteam between t66 and t71. PD found him t67.
elitetroops
Deity
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Thank you for that!
Some corrections for our team, we bulbed Alpha (t62, I think), double bulbed astro, and double bulbed SciMeth t152. Can't remember now if we put bulb into edu, probably did as it is listed.
Good to see TSR also libbed communism. Now I can be confident that it wasn't a totally horrible choice.
Some corrections for our team, we bulbed Alpha (t62, I think), double bulbed astro, and double bulbed SciMeth t152. Can't remember now if we put bulb into edu, probably did as it is listed.
Good to see TSR also libbed communism. Now I can be confident that it wasn't a totally horrible choice.
aitkensam
Warlord
I had almost written of PD's chances of catching up, but the latest industrialism estimates seems to make it very close again.... TSR T169, PD (Duckweed) T168/9 depending on if rifling can be traded. Will be interesting to see if PD's warring can keep up with their tech.
Pangaea
Rock N Roller
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Mansa has now gone for AL instead of Rifling, so maybe PD's plans and estimates must be changed again. Looks like WT just had some nice warring again too. I reckon TSR are ahead by a few turns - but that is just going by the threads as I've not seen the saves.
@elitetroops,
anything particularly interesting you have seen from this thread or the team threads?
@Willow,
very nice overview there, thanks Looks like Phoenix had a very good start indeed.
@elitetroops,
anything particularly interesting you have seen from this thread or the team threads?
@Willow,
very nice overview there, thanks
Looks like Phoenix had a very good start indeed.
elitetroops
Deity
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Haven't had time to read them all yet...
But it has been interesting to see how the games have developed. As I guessed at some point in our thread, many teams got the workboats from Isabella and Mansa a lot earlier, which I think is quite a big gain. Both in terms of trading partners and for map info.I'm much looking forward to being able to see the saves. Then it will be easier to compare games.
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