SGOTM21 Lurker's Thread

[GKey]

I think having Currency some ~20 turns earlier worth much more then 3 turns, but who am I to question legendary players?

 

[WillowBrook]

Some beautifully laid out micro by Pollina. I wonder if equally clear presentations by testers in other threads would help their team's discussions.

 

[BSPollux]

Yep that post was very nice. I've tried to do something like that when I played and did way worse

Edit: I foresee a terrible lack of time for some teams later on. If it takes them a week to decide on a few worker moves, how long will it take them to decide which tasks to fulfill once they know them?

 

[vranasm]

Yep that post was very nice. I've tried to do something like that when I played and did way worse

Edit: I foresee a terrible lack of time for some teams later on. If it takes them a week to decide on a few worker moves, how long will it take them to decide which tasks to fulfill once they know them?

well some teams are well known that have timetable issues and can't decide on worker moves from the past ;-). It's like not we weren't there at least 5-6 times from what I remember...

 

[vranasm]

It's amazing how after so many years some speculations really stick to players , Gumbi there is no such mechanic in civ!

"...With our hammers in GLH this should deter ai. Be amazed if we lost it."

the only thing that works is if you are first to some tech that opens wonder, then the AI is less likely to pickup the tech, especially if the main benefit is religion for example that thing that unlocks Taoism and Angkor Wat (omg can it be I can't remember the name of the tech? I think it has to do something with Philo...)

 

[Deckhand]

It's amazing how after so many years some speculations really stick to players , Gumbi there is no such mechanic in civ!

"...With our hammers in GLH this should deter ai. Be amazed if we lost it."

the only thing that works is if you are first to some tech that opens wonder, then the AI is less likely to pickup the tech, especially if the main benefit is religion for example that thing that unlocks Taoism and Angkor Wat (omg can it be I can't remember the name of the tech? I think it has to do something with Philo...)

Thank you vranasm.
I've read/heard this [investing hammers in a wonder deters the AI] a lot, but was unaware if it was actually true.

<btw, I am several days behind reading the team threads>

 

[BSPollux]

I'm a little worried about the drama in MGN. Hope it's just 'getting to know each other' and they will sort it out.

 

[vranasm]

I'm a little worried about the drama in MGN. Hope it's just 'getting to know each other' and they will sort it out.

SGOTM tend to be format where players are really invested on personal level... I quickly skimmed through last page to see the drama... kinda typical. I don't think it should mean the team not finishing the game.

 

[vranasm]

I played a little bit up to T77 with one of the teams starting saves and aside for the many mistakes I made...

Spoiler :

met 2 new AI's, Shaka, Elisabeth, scouted out whole island most probably, so there is not much to see...

got extremely lucky with barbarian city which blocked mine side of map, so shaka is even that nice that he opened borders with me and I am not his worst enemy.

after 77 turns I am first in score...which doesn't mean much, but is pretty untypical for immortal game

What really surprised me...oracle went 1960BC...I don't think PD can beat this turn, I think they plan turn 60 for oracle, so if they get the same active AI as me...a lot of effort wasted.

I went with GLH, which I landed 1560BC (I think it's T62?).
Got lucky with first GP since I got GS on ~60% odds in capital.

Selfteched Math, Currency (didn't use the GS yet) finished T75(or 76 according to log 975BC, but I think log is desynced by 1 turn)

have 6 cities, but no strategic resources lolz...because horses are kind off the peninsula and copper is nowhere...

126bpt on 100% science slider without academy (still not sure what is best play with the GS...bulb him for alpha?, next GP comes in 8 turns in capital), 71 gpt on 0% slider...

I underestimated a bit the importance of writing with creative leader, but I don't think I could slot in AH and writing before sailing+masonry.

wasted teching myst+part of meditation (wanted to try the greedy Oracle play)

Elisabeth got Confu 1160 BC, so surely not from Oracle...kinda interesting.

the real danger for PD team is the early Oracle by some AI, I don't think they can beat T51 of AI, the difference between GLH currency and Oracle currency is around 16 turns in worst case (the teams should easily beat the T76 of mine currency and PD plans oracle->currency at T60)

then you have to spare the 50 gold of course, which at the T75 can be matter of 1 turn on 0% slider with GLH.


dunno...after playing it a bit... GLH here is really really strong, with 2 easy island cities and so many contacts giving strong trade routes (capital gets like 3x3 cpt trade routes from Elisabeth easily + 1 2cpt inner trade route)

and considering how off praxis I am and trying for greedy play (wasted cca 100 beakers for nothing), teams with GLH should provide some strong play on early currency.

 

[BSPollux]

I'm worried about the pace of the game right now.

They have to agree on when to buy the tasks, they have to decide how to pay, which task they want and when they get it they have to decide if they want to try it. And that up to nine times. And, in addition to all that, they have to actually play the game and find a way to win it.

Not sure if I should make a post in the Maint thread about it. Don't want to be blamed for rushed actions afterwards

 

[WillowBrook]

Is it appropriate to post a general request for more screenies for the lurkers in the maintenance thread?

 

[Jenarie]

Is it appropriate to post a general request for more screenies for the lurkers in the maintenance thread?

Would love that too! One picture's worth a thousand words after all...

 

[BSPollux]

I wouldn't mind if you did that. But: if all they do is discuss city micro, there's not much to show. I'm sure there will be more screenshots when the game gets rolling. But anyway, I can't see any damage in asking. But please don't turn the maint thread into a chat room.

 

[Jenarie]

In case some lurkers don't have time to read every thread, here's a post that shouldn't be missed.

Here is where I have no experience: *How* evil is the mapmaker? As in, if we have no copper, Horse is 'almost' inaccessible, is there hidden iron close by? That would solve all our problems... but it is high investment. In a regular game, I would be sure there would be some iron, because the game won't put me in a spot without easy access to at least one strategic resource. Especially with a unique unit that requires it, but even without.

No strategic resource close by adds a whole additional layer to the complexity of an already mysteriously complex game. It seems frivolous. So, anyone here bold enough to try to channel the mind and heart of our game designers? Or would we need to send an exorcist to their home afterward?

But yes, the mapmaker is evil. Think something like, if Shaka and Sauron mated, then their kid would have his lunch money stolen by the mapmaker in school.

 

[BSPollux]

Here's the answer to something I always wondered but was afraid to ask:
The table

 

[BSPollux]

I will note that Pollux and Deckhand have done a nice job of making worker stealing rather unimportant, without having to actually make specific rules about it.

Look, the mouse likes it's labyrinth!

 

[Jenarie]

I've noticed a lot of talk about fogbusters to avoid barbarians and I don't fully understand the strategy of it... I've never played with barbs off and I've never really worried about them. I tend to just make sure I have enough troops to keep them in check when they come and then let them come. Is it really that much more efficient to spread warriors out to keep them from spawning? I occasionally have to re-mine but mostly can kill them before they harm anything so not sure why it is so important to avoid them.

Although to counter my own question, I think in this game they would be worse than usual if unchecked due to the amount of unsettled space plus only having warriors to fight them with. One axeman can protect a city easily but a warrior not so much...

 

[vranasm]

I've noticed a lot of talk about fogbusters to avoid barbarians and I don't fully understand the strategy of it... I've never played with barbs off and I've never really worried about them. I tend to just make sure I have enough troops to keep them in check when they come and then let them come. Is it really that much more efficient to spread warriors out to keep them from spawning? I occasionally have to re-mine but mostly can kill them before they harm anything so not sure why it is so important to avoid them.

Although to counter my own question, I think in this game they would be worse than usual if unchecked due to the amount of unsettled space plus only having warriors to fight them with. One axeman can protect a city easily but a warrior not so much...

the logic is quite easy...every barb unit that doesn't spawn is unit that doesn't need to be killed.

barbarians get tech based on random chance from players in game, so they eventually will spawn axemen etc and can be really dangerous. On immortal they have axes much sooner then for example on noble (not claiming you don't play immortal or whatever)

 

[BSPollux]

Plus: You can use a warrior to stop a barbarian axe from spawning, but you can't use a warrior to defeat a barbarian axe that has already spawned.

Edit: I'm still waiting for someone to spot my little trap. I'm really surprised no one mentioned it yet. They have all the info they need to come up with the idea. And most of them got it a long time ago. Let's see if anyone gets ruined by it
Edit2: In fact all thoughts in that general directions have in fact been the opposite of what might need to be done

 

[zamint3]

Take a look at Dhoom's turnset report for turn 33, X-team, post #230.
Very entertaining and with nicely commented screenies