SGOTM3 Rome - Team Bugsy

[Sir Bugsy]

Two things about moving all the way to England like that.

1. If we just raze, some AI is going to resettle and we'll have to repeat the razing.
2. If we raze and replace we will have a huge salient that extends our front significantly.

However, this does bring up an interesting point. We are essentially fighting WWI type tactics with a stationary front. Perhaps we need to shift to WWII blitz tactics. We need to change our way of thinking about the problem from a defensive static point of view, to an offensive dynamic point of view.

Maybe we have two forces. One will be like Sherman and march to the north sea. It will raze everything in its path. The second will maintain the front and try and extend it as much as possible.

The question is how big a force would be necessary for something like that?

 

[alerum68]

Turn 0 (1375)
humm... things look better then I was thinking at this point... much better.
Can turn off luxury, and everyone is still happy. gives us +12 GPT instead of -3GPT
I wonder when the AI will get tanks... and how come so many cities are frozen in growth.

IBT
lots of builds, and Japan starts US as well.

Turn 1(1380AD)
Change Veii to settler.
Defender of Rome vs 2hp english cav - win, no dam
Defender of Rome vs english rRifle - win, 2 dam
eLegion vs bab 2hp cav - win, 3 dam, no promo
eKnight vs bab 2hp cav - win, 3 dam, no promo
Humm... did a check on city vs worker ratio. It's 2:1... a bit reversed... I'm going to build at least 5 workers on my turns!
Thinking outside of the box: I want to sell our temples to reduce maintence, but still maintain culture we have now and borders.
2nd Night Army vs vet cav - win, lossing 4/18
umm... I'm supposed to fight MoW's with galleys?!

IBT
The AI likes to gather in our kill zones for some reason.

Turn 2 (1385)
2nd Knight Army vs French Cav (Didn't we cut their capitol off?!) win, lossing 4 hps
vKnight vs french rRifle - win, 2 dam
Aqeuilae Tarquinis (Who came up with that name?) vs American 3hp vRifle - win, 4 dam.
Those mountains between The Gate and Treveri could really use a fortress and some roads... thats a nasty spot still.

IBT
units swarm again, going to have to repeat bombard treatment.

Turn 3 (1390)
eknight vs longbowman - win, no dam return home
eLegion vs vMusket - win, 2 dam
Defender of Rome vs English 2hp cav - win, 1 dam
Defender of Rome vs Bab 1hp cav - win, no dam
VKnight vs Russian 1hp cossack - win, 2 dam
VLegion vs French 1hp Cav - win, no dam, goes elite.
Caesare's Army vs Bab 2hp Musket - win, 3 dam

IBT
Arretium had some citizen killed
japan drops off 2 cavs
cossak falls to a unit in a city I missed
we loose a legion
Americans start US

Turn 4 (1395)
vLegion causes bab cav to retreat, lossing 2hp
vlegion kills bab
vlegion kills bad who retreated, clearing the field, but leaving The Holy City open for a turn.
Load a knight into an army
vKnight vs french vLongbow - redlined, but retreats. Ouch, when did they get defense?
Max's Blue Bolts vs 1hp bab cav - win, no dam


Random Thought: When they start building railroads, and we're getting the full brunt of their armies in organized stacks of 20-30... well, do we have any plans for that?


IBT
cocask attack augustadom, but dies
english cav attack augustudum and dies

Turn 5 (1400)
eLegion vs bab 1hp cav - win, no dam, no promo
2hp vLegionary takes on a suicide mission to kill the french vCav, but somehow survives and promotes!
Max's Blue Bolts vs Bab 1hp Cav - win, no dam, goes back home
vKnight vs french vLongbow - win, no dam, goes elite

IBT
cossack attack elite legion, and kills him. didn't see him that close, or wouldn't have left him exposed.
english drop of a cav off


Turn 6 (1405)
Sorry, got into the turn. No losses, killed 4 units, bombarded 2 others down to 1 hp, and a frigate as well.
Having to defend our west coast due to units being dropped off. We need a active coast guard now, with cats.
vLegion vs vCav - loose, but redline cav.

IBT
Japan drops off 3 cav
bab cav falls to legion, but we get redlined
get bombarded and loose walls in arretium


Turn 7(1410)
vLegion vs Japan 3hp cav - Died. Cav took no dam
vLegion vs Japan 3hp cav - died, took off a hp.
vLegion vs Japan 2hp Cav - win, no dam
vLegion vs Japn 2hp cav - win, 1 dam
vKnight vs English 1hp cav - win, no dam
vKnight vs Japan 2hp cav - win, 1 dam
vKnight vs English 2hp cav - win, 1 dam
Max's Blue Bolts vs English 2hp cav - win 2 dam
Max's Blue Bolts vs English 3hp cav - win 2 dam
Caesere's Army vs 2hp bab cav - win, 2 dam
eKnight vs 2hp bab cav - win, 2 dam, no leader

IBT
american sub is moving closer to our shores.
bab Cav takes out knight.
bab cav falls at the gate
bab rifle falls at the gate
english cav kills legion at treveri, but is redlined


Turn 8 (1415)
ELegionary vs english cav from the IBT - we win, no damage and FINALLY pull a leader.
Red Machine vs bab cav - cause cav to retreat, 2 dam
Caesara's army vs english cav - win no dam
Defender of Rome vs bab rifle - we win, but take heavy damage.
vKnight vs french rifle - we loose, redlien rifle.

IBT
cossack takes out exposed legionary that gave us the lader. was worth it.
cossak redlined at augustadorum x2, and vet goes elite
russian riffle dropped off on the west coast
steady stream of babs cav coming in our territory now. We need to pillage their horses again.
Tarentum dies because all the units around it.



Turn 9 (1420)
elegion vs 1hp russian musket - we loose?
elegion vs 1hp russian musket - win, 2 dam
Caesar's Savages vs cossak - we win
vKnight vs 1hp russian cossack - win, no dam
vKnight vs 2hp russian cossack - win, no dam, goes elite
eKnight vs 1hp American Cav - win, but no promotion like I was hoping.
eLegion vs 1hp Bab rifle - win, no dam
eLegion vs 1hp bab rifle - win, no dam
Red Machine vs bab cav - cav retreats, we loose 4 hps in the battle
rLegion vs 1hp cav -
vKnight vs 1hp french rifle - win, 1 dam
Max's Blue Bolts vs 2hp bab longbow - win, 1 dam
Max's Blue Bolts vs bab cav - win but get redlined
Caesare's Army vs bab cav - win, 1 dam
Caesare's Army vs bab cav - win, but redlined again
2nd Knight Army vs 2hp French cav - Win, 1 dam
Red Machine retreats a english cav
e*Knight takes out that cav

Good news: There's a pikeman near The Gate. I think we've exhustaed the Babs for the time being. :roll:

IBT
america drops a sword in the west
elegion kills cav, equally mattched?
pike redlines cav, equally matched
elegion that survived the babs, died to the french


Turn 10 (1425)
eLegion vs 1hp american sword - win, no dam, no promo
2nd Knight army kills french cav
Army ( I don't know how to rename in PTW, if ya wanna do it for me I'd like it to be Barbarians at the Gates) vs 1hp bab rifle - win, 3 dam
I take that back about the babs being gasses. That's a german pikeman I saw, not babs. Damn it, Anyway Caeser's Savages killed him with no loss.
We should probably settle on that Hill. May want to remember it when you play!!
This is mainly a healing turn, don't see any easy attacks, and we may only get 1 stack attacked by a bab cav, should be safe elsewhere in the IBT.

Notes:
Build mines in the mountains of Viroconium. HUGE stack is there to get it done... wasn't able to break it down to the most economical configuration, so you may want ot do that. Slaves would be REALLY nice at this point.

The 6-stack of workers is for roading the hills in the north, so we can have a good defense. You should cover them with an army from one of the cities, probably a legionary one. The other 3 up there should build roads on plains and grasslands. This is crucial!!!! Don't use them for ANYTHING else. I would have had a much better kill ratio with proper roads to bring knights back him from the hills.

May want to check my MMing. I did it at the end of turn 9, but not 10. Just checked happiness.

We're 4 turns from gunpowder. When we get there, turn off science and upgrade our pikes to muskets, and we should be able to go on the offensive!

I didn't do it, but you should sell our temples on the borders now. We have all the culture we'll need for flip protection, their borders have expanded, and they're just costing us GPT now.

I didn't post a picture, I think the save is worth taking a look at this point, and figuring out how we want to go.

Here's the save.

 

[alerum68]

in 4 turns, we'll be able to upgrade our pikes to muskets, and then we'll be able to finalyl break out! We have the forces to start the assult on the french, as well as 3 settlers in the north, and 1 more due in 2 in Veii. Denyd's plan will work, and one key city to build is the one I was talking about in turn number 9, where the army is standing. That area will be bascially sealed off at that point. The English has sent a steady stream of cavs at us, so be prepared for heavy resitance all the way up. We won't be able to go as far as Denyd suggest that quickly though... figure 2-3 cities at best turning a turn set... that's going to be very hard. 1-2 is more likely.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Good progress. Brother Bede is up and R&L is on deck.

 

[Bede]

Got it and looking for the iron underwear.

 

[RowAndLive]

in 4 turns, we'll be able to upgrade our pikes to muskets, and then we'll be able to finalyl break out! ... figure 2-3 cities at best turning a turn set... that's going to be very hard. 1-2 is more likely.

That's one thing that I REALLY like about our team! We're fighting subs with galleys, and rifles with knights & legions, and we're STILL optimistic!

While Bede is girding his iron scivies, I'll be looking for a nice supply of dry powder. Incidentally, I know you guys all questioned when I started building the galleys, and still wonder now that we're facing MoW, but it's better than nothing, isn't it? It also gives us the ability, if not the initiative, to try putting out an offensive landing party. That might get them to keep some troops at home (or we'd finally roll a strike!).

 

[grahamiam]

Notes:
Build mines in the mountains of Viroconium. HUGE stack is there to get it done... wasn't able to break it down to the most economical configuration, so you may want ot do that. Slaves would be REALLY nice at this point.

The 6-stack of workers is for roading the hills in the north, so we can have a good defense. You should cover them with an army from one of the cities, probably a legionary one. The other 3 up there should build roads on plains and grasslands. This is crucial!!!! Don't use them for ANYTHING else. I would have had a much better kill ratio with proper roads to bring knights back him from the hills.

nice turns alerum
i agree with the workers but i do have something to add. Antium was working a lot of unimproved tiles during my turns. if we can get the hills to it's rear mined and roaded, it will help our production tremendously.
also, imvho, veii should stop building settlers and focus on military (just a comment, not a criticism as we needed those settlers during your turns but now we can switch). rush or build settlers in the SE when the tundra cities get up to size 3. they are not doing much but acting as a placeholder anyways. if enough of those 1spt towns start building, in 20 or 30 turns we will have a lot coming out of that area. we now need the core cities to concentrate on military, specifically knights, to replenish our attacking troops when we make the push N.
@R&L -> i did not disagree with you about the galleys. they worked well as i was able to sink 1 troop transport during my turns after redlining the covering frigate with cat's i thought i recommended a "swarm" of them here (4-6) but i think i got confused with another sg

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I think we need to keep pumping settlers, if for no other reason for troop support, but the increased commerce, (yes, even if it only 1G) is worth it.

 

[grahamiam]

I think we need to keep pumping settlers, if for no other reason for troop support, but the increased commerce, (yes, even if it only 1G) is worth it.

i don't necessarily disagree. i just feel high spt cities/towns should be devoted to military. maybe it makes sense to keep letting veii pump for 10 more turns, but i think, in the long run, it's best to let the non-productive cities make our settlers from now on.

 

[alerum68]

I'm not so sure about that yet G-man. Those 3 settlers will quickly be used as soon as we start the assult. We need to be able to produce a settler every 5 turns for the remainder of this game to be able to fill after we raze, or the AI will take land and we'll watch them get stronger.

 

[Bede]

Won't get any turns in tonight as I want to be reasonably fresh for this one. First up for tomorrow evening though.

We need settlers as we advance. Will try to find reasonable places to build them. Maybe 5spt towns with a finish rush after two.

 

[grahamiam]

I'm not so sure about that yet G-man. Those 3 settlers will quickly be used as soon as we start the assult. We need to be able to produce a settler every 5 turns for the remainder of this game to be able to fill after we raze, or the AI will take land and we'll watch them get stronger.

your right, of course, we do need to settle towns quickly when we go on the offensive, but we'll also need to replace lost troops as casulties will be high with rifles defending so we're in another connundrum here. if we space the 1spt towns correctly, we can do the 1 settler every 5T rate that's believed to be required but it will take a bit of foresight, as i had indicated previously. i think we can do it and i think we need to do it as we'll need attackers and defenders replenished readily. I also think the new towns should be no more that 3 tiles apart, so we can move defenders to the hot spots as required.

1 more thing we got roads on those mountains? if not, we need to build them or the cats ain't coming with us.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

We've been building a lot of mountain roads, especially in the Gate/Gap area. I like the idea of building settlers in outlying towns and rushing them either short or finish.

 

[grahamiam]

yeah, but i think they're lacking over by cherborug (sp?) to the NW, along the attack route. probably need a legion army +3 workers to run up there and road it, then follow with the cats and the rest of the strike force. this will be quite an exciting point in the game

 

[Sir Bugsy]

There is a way around the mountains right next to the coast. Although some combat engineers to build some roads to speed the advance would probably be a good idea.

 

[alerum68]

Sometimes I feel like I put to much in my post, and people skip over important information. We don't have a set of 3-workers build roads in that area G-man. We have 9. One set is for building roads in 1 turn on flatlands, and the other set of 6 is for 1 turn hills, and 2 turn mountain road building. They're moving up there just have to make sure that Bede uses them that way instaed of breaking them up and setting them back to the core that's happened so many times in the past that I've moved them up there.

 

[grahamiam]

sorry, i thought you were talking about between the gate and augustadorum. i didn't realize you meant between arretium and tarentum, the direction of denyd's charge. "N" can mean a lot of places right now

The 6-stack of workers is for roading the hills in the north, so we can have a good defense. You should cover them with an army from one of the cities, probably a legionary one. The other 3 up there should build roads on plains and grasslands. This is crucial!!!! Don't use them for ANYTHING else. I would have had a much better kill ratio with proper roads to bring knights back him from the hills.

also, the "grasslands" threw me because there's actually a lot of desert there (and zero grass)

 

[alerum68]

Yeah, I know, just "grassland" is how I think of anything that's not hills or mountains in my head, and sometimes put it out that way... at least when it comes to fighting. Should call it "flatland" but old habits die hard.

 

[Bede]

Quick update:
Two and a half turns done in four hours. Ready to sack Poitiers. Fighting off hornets on the coast and at Arretium. Kill ratio 5-1. Haven't moved a settler yet. One new leader, no scope for army (need towns). Can't get moving forward in the west or north.

Finish tonight.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

This has to be one of the most intense AW games I've been involved in. If we can maintain a 5-1 kill ratio, we just turned the corner.