SGOTM3 Rome - Team Bugsy

[Sir Bugsy]

You guys should read Doc's post over at RBCiv how he pillaged his way to a victory at deity. I think there is much to be said for the strategy.

 

[RowAndLive]

1625 – 5
R.Hood (Veii) WNW spots river delta 2SW, fish 3SW, more hills & trees. Cu (spear) to Rome. Julius to Veii. Romulus S spots delta in narrow bay, cow 2S. Su Batai NE spots Rus scout NE & “the other side of the mountain, the other side of the mountain…”. PS N to mountain, sees gap in Fr border in wide. Artemis SE can now see Thermopylae – no units outside city. BT E. (just exploring, will pull back to cover killing fields.)

Hold for Team input:
- granary or settler (to found on river to S, or river hill NNW of Antium @6.5 to grab control of second iron.
- plan to build warrior > settler in Rome
- change Antium spear build to warrior for conversion?
- what to do about lit in 28. Switch to math? Or what else? Still no trade available.

Convert tax collector in Veii to scientist. Drop research to 0%. Income stays at +6gpt.
Note that Antium @1 has same shields as Veii @3 – use Antium as prebuild site.
Convert Antium Spear in 5 to granary in 18.
*** We have 18 turns to get lit, and change the Antium build to GLib.
*** Veii will build settler in 8, and lose the scientist. Antium set to grow in 7, and Rome
in 5. Will need to move the scientist to Rome before settler builds.

Current wonder builds are: American GLib in Boston, but Boston not on city list (still
all capitols).
Russian Oracle in Moscow. French Oracle in Paris. English Pyramids in London.
London @5, Moscow @4, Paris @3. Berlin & Delhi @4, so Germans & Indians are the other continent.
We will need to get wheel in order to see where the horses are for the plan, then HBR for
Building cavs. Maybe not as soon as I had hoped.

Check Prices again:
Lit Myst Wheel Masonry
America -- 90 100 90
France -- 80 90 80
Russia -- 90 100 90

Liz is now up the above 4 plus MM. 5 cities, 39g.
Greece is now up Masonry & wheel. 3 cities, 21g. Have incense.

IBT: Greek archer comes out of Therm to BG at our feet.

1600 – 6
Vet archer -0 kills greek archer, promotes to elite.
Eve finishes mine, begins road. Julius to Rome. Cu to Veii. R.Hood NW to hill, sees vast plains to N & 1 wheat. Romulus SW. Su Batai NE still sees no Greek borders to our E. A careful look past Thermopylae, shows more green borders to ESE of Thermopylae.
Peas Shooter N. BT SE.

IBT: wine road completed. Greek vet archer seen E of Therm. 4 English warriors arrive 2N of Antium (came from tile NE of there).

1575 – 7
Atremis W, Bev to iron, Julius W-N-NE toward Antium, Cu E-2NE, R.Hood E, Romulus N, Su Batai W, Pea Shooter sees dark blue border NW, PS W sees Russian spear in Bab(?) terr., Bill Tell S.
Note “collis” is hills, ferrum is iron, vinum is wine (I knew that!).

IBT: 4 English now immed N of Antium, across river in forest. Rome warrior > warrior.

1550 – 8
Bev begins iron road, due in 6. Artemis NE, BT SW, SB W, Cu N, forts Antium, RH S, Remus (warrior) W-N-NE, Romulus N, PS sees French worker roading gap from Orleans to Tours immed SE, Rus spear immed NW, PS N sees Bab worker immed NW roading Gems. I DO NOT make contact.
Forest / “silva” offers a +25% def bonus to English, but civ’pedia indicates +0% bonus for river?!?
Julius N to Antium, attacks warriors -3 red kills English Warrior.

IBT: Babs contact us: offers masonry for 80, decline.will sell myst for 70g + Greek contact, wheel for 80g + Greek contact. Decline all.
Cu -0 killing 2 attacking warriors, goes elite on first.
The folks love us, and build a patio around the hut.
French begin the GLib.
Babs begin pyramids.
Greek archer comes NE from Therm.

1525 – 9
<save>
Artemis -1 kills greek archer, but no GL.
BT NE in support, Romulus to Rome, Julius recovers, Eve SE-E-S, RH E-S, Su Batai N, PS SW, J.Little (vet archer) attacks last warrior, dies , but warrior red. Cu N -4 kills warrior, but no GL. Remus to Veii.
Notice scientist in Veii turned into clown, change him back. Lit in 24.

IBT: Rome borders expand.

1500 – 10
Artemis withdraws W, Romulus garrisons Rome, R.Hood S, Remus garrisons Veii, Cora finishes mine begins road, Julius (recovered) N, Cu S to Antium, Su Batai NE, Bill Tell SW, Eve begins road to game

*** Pea Shooter is available to move. I had intended to send him W into Babterr, to cross over to other gap, but there are plenty of options. Could capture & kill Bab worker, but don’t see any advantage. French worker likely now roading iron near Tours.

*** Lit now available from: France for WM + 90g, Russia for WM + 100g, America for 130g strait up. I will leave this for our beloved despot, err, leader to decide!

French & Bab culture has grown first tics. We’re still 1/2-1/3 of English power, but average military to all except Russia, to whom we are strong.
Score 147.

NOTES:
* Veii: settler due in 3, but drop to 1, losing scientist. Will need to move scientist before then. No growth. Should return to settler factory after scientist leaves.
* Rome: warrior in 1, grow in 10, should get to build another warrior before iron attached in 4.
* Antium: A1, grow in 2. Set to Granary in 13, but should change to GLib with lit buy.
May wish to put scientist here for a few turns to try for a 5th warrior in Rome before iron is attached. Then move scientist to Rome, to keep pre-build high in Antium.
* I don’t think that toward Greeks is best city site until Thermopylae is destroyed. Recommend river port site 2S of Eve / game. I think that this water is a lake, and that there is more land available S, SW & SSE.

We currently have 132g +8gpt.
Our forces: 6 archers (1 elite, 1 out scouting), 2 warriors, 1 elite spear, 3 workers

Go get ‘em Bugs!

 

[RowAndLive]

Also, don't forget to check that the scientist in Veii hasn't reverted to a clown. You may also want to bring Su Batai back closer to Thermopylae or home.

Here's the map:

 

[RowAndLive]

Edit: The save has now been submitted.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Edit - Never mind - I have the save.

I'll be playing at lunch. Any input is welcome for the next three and a half hours.

 

[alerum68]

Good job R&L.... no SoD marching towards you I'm hoping?

Bugsy, nothing to add besides don't forget an escort for the settler. Good luck with the trade deal... I'd do the 130gold... Always thought it was a mistake, especially with war conditions, to sell WM to soon.

 

[RowAndLive]

2 thoughts:
- the 4 English warriors attacked Antium in the 13th turn after we declared. Since it is extremely unlikely that they just happened to have a stack of 4 warriors wandering around, or even in the field exploring (all within 10 of each other) between us and them, and since I don't see them having a garrison of 4 warriors in their closest city, then they must be within 13 tiles, probably less, and very likely to the NE. If they are to the NW, then they must be even closer, since they went around to the NE, and I haven't seen any borders to indicate that.
- the french worker who was near Pea Shooter will be done mining the iron by the time that we declare on France, but you may be able to set up to attack the worker on the turn you do declare. If not, then set up to move to the iron after declaring, and pillage the road. Possibly follow up by pillagin road tiles back toward Orleon.

 

[alerum68]

It could be closer then 13 spaces. They may have had to build a unit or 2, which could have taken up to 5 turns... I'm not sure how the AI chooses what unit to build and where, so don't know if they used a quick city or a corrupt city. Tthey may be as close as 8 tiles.... but we do know that they're at least within a 8-13 tile radius of us... I think all the civs are pretty tightly packed.

 

[denyd]

Nice work R&L

With our next settler, it looks like the safe directions to settle would be W,S & SW. We could claim that second iron just in case. Just keep pumping out those vet warriors. It would be nice to get at least a TM in any deals we make. That would make attack planning a little easier.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Just so we have a record somewhere:

Civs Met:
1) Greeks - 2750 BC - war in 2750 BC
2) England - 2270 BC - War in 1950 BC
3) France - 2230 BC - declare in 1375 BC
4) Russia - 2150 BC - declare in 875 BC
5) America - 2110 BC - declare in 450 BC
6) Babylon - 1550 BC - declare in 50 BC
7) ????? - ???? - declare in 300 AD
8) ?????? - ????? - declare in 500 AD

Obviously if we destroy a civ, this list will change.

 

[RowAndLive]

Please note that I said "within 13 tiles". I expect them in the ~9 range, but given that we've seen 6 already, and no borders, they're at least 8 away.

On trading, I did not try offering any trades. I only asked what they wanted for 1 tech each time. We got demands for maps, but I didn't ask about any.

I may not have conveyed it enough, but we NEED that 4th city, just to follow the current plan using 1 scientist & 0% research. Without it, we have only 1 city producing units. Also, IIRC, we can't cut and re-connect our iron.

 

[alerum68]

Bugsy, can you put that list into your first post? I tried at first, but it's not as complete as yours.

I aggree with the city situation, but don't think 4 is enough.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I'll have the game completed and posted in the AM. I'm up to turn 8. Declared war on time. We've met Germany. I just built the 4th city. And we have our first legion. I think Denyd is going to get the chance to do some on the Greeks.

Edit - I'll post the updated list in my first post as requested - good idea.

 

[RowAndLive]

The more I look at that Greek border extension off of Thermopylae, combined with the limited looking E that I did with Su Batai, convinces me that Denyd was correct when he initially pegged Greece to be SE of us. Not E.

I still think that England must be to our NE, but have no clue other than the limited troops that we've seen. Also, since they sent 4 warriors the first time, either they have quite a few units, or they're going to quickly be gassed. I'd like to suspect the latter, especially since they only had 4-5 cities during the turns when the troops were sent.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I have some answers coming up shortly.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I have change the thread's second post to our contact post per Alerum's recommendation.

Civs Met:
1) Greeks - 2750 BC - war in 2750 BC
2) England - 2270 BC - war in 1950 BC
3) France - 2230 BC - war in 1375 BC
4) Russia - 2150 BC - declare in 875 BC
5) America - 2110 BC - declare in 450 BC
6) Babylon - 1550 BC - declare in 50 BC
7) Germany – 1500 BC - declare in 300 AD
8) ?????? - ????? - declare in 500 AD

Pre-flight we can get literature for 90G & WM from Joan, so I go for it. We won’t be at peace much longer. Another Latin word to look up Bombyx – it is a lux that Liz has. I sell Literature for Contact with the Germans. We don’t have to declare war on them until 300 AD. Bismark will trade Masonry for Literature, so I take it. That’s all I can trade for now. So two techs plus contact for 90G & WM. Not bad even with no haggling.

I switch Antium to the Library, due in 127 turns. There’s a total of 11 civs to meet so we’ll be doing this for a while.

I fire our lone scientist for a while.

IBT – Alex begs for peace and asks for writing in the deal. Take a hike. A Greek archer steps forward.
Rome: warrior=>warrior
The English and Russians restart their Library builds.

1. 1475 BC – Bombyx is silk. I spot some to the northeast. Kill the Greek archer with an elite archer who is redlined.

IBT – Two English warriors approach from the north and a Greek archer step out towards our wounded man.
Veii: settler=>warrior

2. 1450 BC – I spot English lands. They are to the west of France. It is interesting that their units approach from the north. Maybe they popped a city from a hut.

Retreat from the Greek Archer hoping to get him in range of our other archer.

Vector to cut of the English pair.

To the south looks like a deep bay off the ocean.

Get 4G selling our map.

IBT – The English step onto flat ground. The Greek archer steps forward.
Rome: warrior=>warrior

3. 1425 BC – Julius kills one English warrior. Confirm that England is west of Babylon. To our Northwest.

Buy the Wheel from Bismark for contact with Alex and 60G. We have horses SW-S of Veii.

Make a whopping 2G selling our map this time.

IBT – Iron is hooked up. We’ll be upgrading our warriors as soon as I get the cash.
Julius kills the other English Archer. The Greek archer runs into a forest (silva).
The Germans complete the Colossus.

4. 1400 BC – Quiet turn. We find out at the bargaining table that Alex has Equinus (horses) Liz doesn’t have a thing. Peashooter approaches England and will try and raze a little havoc up there.

IBT – We lose an archer fortified on a mountain to the Greek.
Rome: warrior=>legion

5. 1375 BC – Yes, we have come to that special time again. First we try and demand HBR from Joan. Nothing. Then I sell her our map for 2G. Then I slap her in the face and declare war.

Found Cumae to the South next to the river on Ocean at RCP 4. Start an armamentarium (barracks).

IBT – A Russian scout approaches from the east.
Veii: warrior=>granarium

6. 1350 BC – Remus finds some condimentium (spices) to the northwest.

Pea Shooter steps next to Canterbury. Spots America to the north of England.

Make 4G selling our map this time.

IBT - The Pyramids are built in London.

7. 1325 BC – Upgrade our first warrior for 40G. Pea shooter continues into England.

IBT – Pea shooter kills an attacking English warrior and promotes to elite.

8. 1300 BC – Start marching on Thermopylae. I ask Hammi, “how much for HBR?” “Contact with Alex, 6G & WM,” says he. “Sold,” says I. I still haven’t started our lone scientist back up again. I’m trying to get the cash to upgrade some legions.

IBT – Two Greek archers step out of Thermo, one NW and one W.

9. 1275 BC – Kill the archer NW with an elite archer (-2hp). Move our other archer and new legion into the mountains.

IBT – Liz pays us a visit.
“I’ll give you a peace treaty if you pay me 30G and 7 gpt,” she pompously states.
“Are you dead yet?” I ask.
“Pardon me?”
“Are you dead yet?”
“Why certainly not.”
“When you’re dead, I’ll make peace with you, not a moment sooner.” I take my new whipping whip that Hammi told us about and whack her across her backside and tell her to get out.

A Greek archer attacks our elite archer a cross a river and wins.

10. 1250 BC – Kill the murderous archer with an archer. I could have nailed him with our legion, but I didn’t want to set off our GA quite yet.

Upgrade another warrior for 30G.

After Action – I think exploration is very important for us right now.

I think we are going to be too late to get the Great Library. When the Pyramids were build several builds swapped to the Library. So figure everyone had a Library pre-build going.

Probably want to pull our two units out of Greek lands until you are ready to attack Thermo. There are at least two Hoplites there, probably three.

I think our next city should go at the blue dot in the following screen shots.

I have a forest chop going on for Veii’s granary. Probably want to chop the other game and get a settler factory up and running. I think we need to just keep building cities.

Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/bugsy_SG003_BC1250_01.SAV

 

[Sir Bugsy]

 

[RowAndLive]

I still think that England must be to our NE, but have no clue other than the limited troops that we've seen. Also, since they sent 4 warriors the first time, either they have quite a few units, or they're going to quickly be gassed. I'd like to suspect the latter, especially since they only had 4-5 cities during the turns when the troops were sent.

I stand corrected...

Also, the Greek border to the E is new, only appearing during your turns. It may be a good opportunity to go take out one on the cheap, and it should autoraze. Might also promote a few archers to elite, since they pinched the one.

We'll have to watch for being flanked by the Greeks to the S. just like they are to the E.

Nice turns, Bugs!

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Yes, that Greek boarder to the east is brand new. It wasn't there on turn 1, when I first spotted those silks. I think the original assessment that Athens is SE still stands.

 

[denyd]

Bugs: Due to the time constraint on this one, I'll play SGOTM 3 before Bugs 2.0 if that's ok?

From the maps, I'm thinking about the following plan:

1. Thermoplyae has to go, probably have to use Legions, so GA will be started
2. Settle the blue dot and then 1 NE of the wheat
3. Further expansion should probably be east and south
3. Probably send the troops towards the Greek silks city (newer so less defense)
4. At least 2 of the French cites are new (size one) and Rheims is probably our first target.

If we can raze a pair of Greek & French cities, that would set them back and make future conquest simpler.

If I did my math correctly, I shouldn't be adding any new wars during my turn set.

I got it.