SGOTM3 Rome - Team Bugsy

[grahamiam]

For the first time in a long time, I think this game might be won.

that's as sure a sign that rifles will be here shortly that i've ever heard actually, the only wonders being built right now are Smith's. I don't recall a screen announcing Newtons so, hopefully, we can catch the continent before rifles, but not likely.
i still don't like the number of retreats we have to give away. units are starting to build on our borders to the N and NE.

 

[alerum68]

Alright, looking at the save I have a few questions:

1) Are we meaning to build those regular units? I'd rather switch them and loose shields, and make a barracks.

2) Do we realize we only have 12 workers and 20+ cities?

3) I want to get rid of Greece, and quickly. 1 less thorn in our side. Is that fine, or do we want them around for research sake?

I'll start playing as soon as I get at least 2 ideas on these questions.

 

[grahamiam]

Alright, looking at the save I have a few questions:

1) Are we meaning to build those regular units? I'd rather switch them and loose shields, and make a barracks..

i assume your talking about the reg units on our east coast. i was trying to get a unit in there ASAP so we can move out the vets to take out Greece. if you want to do something different, don't let my builds stop you.

edit: just be careful as the attacks are constant and we need bodies over there, especially in Luna.

2) Do we realize we only have 12 workers and 20+ cities? .

Where do you want them to work? do you realize we pay over 70gpt in unit support? do you want more non-combat units right now when we have 4 countries (France, England, Russia, and Babylon) sending waves of cavalry and knight at us? You will lose Legions and they must be replaced faster than they are lost. What is going to protect the new towns? imho, workers can wait.

3) I want to get rid of Greece, and quickly. 1 less thorn in our side. Is that fine, or do we want them around for research sake?

I think I addressed that in my notes and some of my comments afterwards. You have 2 army's in the SE. Take them up and raze the french town, then go for greece. Greece is only building archers right now and are not a threat. France is building a seemingly endless supply of cav and are definitely a theat, therefore, as described in my post, i decided to go for France. Cut off the capitol to remove thier cav building ability, starve paris, start demolishing that empire. I firmly stand behind that decision.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I agree with G-man. Our two most pressing issues are Besancon and Paris, raze and replace the first and isolate the second. Luna and Nicomedia have been getting hit by French cavs on a regular basis.

While workers are very important, it is also important to actually keep them alive. The scales are starting to tip in our favor, we need to keep generating settlers. If you can peal a worker off a corrupt city, that would be worthwhile.

 

[RowAndLive]

I also agree. Additionally, due to the xenophobic variant, keeping them around for research can not help us at all. Not a bad thought otherwise, though.

Certainly, take out Greece, but get Paris disconnected.

@Grahamiam - Please post the .sav to the scoreboard. Thanks!

 

[grahamiam]

@Grahamiam - Please post the .sav to the scoreboard. Thanks!

i attached it at the bottom of the post i try to attach the .sav's and upload the pic's to save space on my attachments. unfortunately, it tends to hid the .sav.

edit: oh, crap did it again

 

[RowAndLive]

Never mind. I had meant the submissions page, but I did it for you.

I know that we work very well together as a team, but I am still suprised by the number of teams (other than staff) who haven't played as many turns as we have. Sure we're not in the running for any laurels, but out of 15 teams, only 6 have played more turns, and 2 have played the same amount, leaving 6 stragglers. Given our late finishes in the first 2 SGOTMs, I'd expect us to be near the back of the pack.

 

[grahamiam]

Never mind. I had meant the submissions page, but I did it for you.

thanks, i go called into a meeting and didn't have the chance to do it right away.
i prefer a brisk pace, i get a little sleepy when it gets more than 2 days between turns. i also tend to lose focus. i think the pace is ok here (about 30 turns or so a week) after the initial slowdown. hopefully, we can keep it up and knock this out in 3 or 4 wks

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I like a nice pace in a SG. Play-talk-play. Keeps my interest up.

 

[denyd]

I took a while to get is through my thick head, but ignore Greece, the threat from archers & hoplites is minimal. We need to get rid of those other 2 eastern AI cities (Besancon & Yakutsk) first, while cutting off everyone else's horses. After Paris is isolated, one army stays and pillages the rest of France, while other one heads to any other horses to disconnect. Since we've got 5 armies, the other 3 should concentrate in the east. Once the B & Y are taken, the armies can head north. We should be able to finish off Greece at our leisure with cats & legions (make sure we've got settlers ready to replace their cities).

I agree with Bugs, that for the first time I see a chance to win this, though it will be a slog.

As I see it our short-term (Alerum & Bede) goals should be:
1. Isolate Paris
2. Raze & replace Yakutsk & Besacon
3. Fill in the SE areas with new cities
4. Finish research on Chivalry and Gunpowder
5. Build a couple of libraries
6. Setup for raze & replace of Amiens & Sevastapol

Using my handy-dandy little CRPrings tool (thanks again Dianthus), I did a little scouting and for those interested here are the horse locations we know of on the map as of now:
Horses:
1. 2SW of Rheems (France but not yet connected)
2. 2SE of Nottingham (England)
3. N-NE of New York (America)
4. E of Bablyon (Babylon)
5. N of Eridu (Babylon)
6. 2SE of St Petersburg (Russia)
7. S of Atlanta (America)
8. N of Berlin (Germany)

And for those who prefer pictures:

We should be able to pillage the top 5 without much resistance. So either Babylon or America is trading horses to France. We'll need to raze Rheems before they are connected there.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Excellent intel! We just need to keep the horses under our armies.

 

[Bede]

Nice planning work. As soon as alerum has executed his portion will pick up and execute mine.

 

[grahamiam]

nice review denyd. you put in words and pictures exactly what i've been failing to communicate. thanks

 

[Bede]

Spoiler up.

 

[alerum68]

Turn 0 (950AD)
Do some minimal MMing.
Change Lunacantorium to Legionary from Pikeman.
I think we've already made contact with Montezuma because it says we have peaceful relationships with him in the F4 screen, but I've already screwed up enough that I'm going to wait til we know for sure we need to declare on them.
Change GONZOmonium? over from Legionary to barracks. cost us 2 shields.

IBT
cav atacks our legionary from Basancon. We die, but redline cav. He retreats.
Ruian knight kills another legionary near Nicomdemia. Tey were sitting duck, and got them with no movment.
Another Legionary is attacked by the longbowman he's left right next, but he promotes instead of being slaughtered like the other units left in the open.
Ravenna riots on me. Should have caught that.

Turn 1(960AD)
Bombard some unit near our borders.
Found Arretium.
Join Legionary into army near Paris. Use horseman to pillage and move near Paris.
Take out french longbow near Viroconium with Elite Legionary.

IBT
babs attack arretium, but fail.
babs attack the gate, and we loose a unit.
french have so many units near us.

Turn 2 (970AD)
bombard like crazy, yet again.
Legionary causes bab cav to retreat, then use another one to finish off the job. Damn, no leader.
Pillage and cut off Paris.
Start gathering forces for the assult on Besancon and Yatkutsk.

IBT
Cav attacks our legion and redlines, retreating.
bab cav falls at Tarentum.
Bab cav retreats and arretuim
bab cav retreats at tarentm
bab cav takes out legionary and 2 cats
besancon swaps healthy cav for injured.
french cav takes out legionary
french cav takes out legion in caeseara
Ouch. Massive barb uprisings near Eburacum. We didn't get the cities down there quick enough.

Turn 3 (980AD)
lite legion retreats a dutch cav. Recapture our cats.
Spend a good bit of time MMing.

IBT
someone unloads a longbow near our borders... is purple.
babs retreat from legion of arretium.
bab attacks our stack near samarra but falls.
french take out legionary, but is redlined.
cav falls to legionary.
cav falls to legionary in luna and goes elite.
french cav taes out legion in the gap.
second one retreats.
french cav falls at arretium.
Chiv comes in. Set to Engineering at 20%, coming in 22 turns, and gaining 10 GPT. 4 turns, and I should be able to increase it to get it in about 10 turns from that point.
I want fast movers. I don't see us winning this game without speed. Change all legions being built in the F1 screen to Knights.


Turn 4 (990AD)
Another round of bombarding units.
Pillage Flood Plains near Paris. Lyon, Paris, and Orleans shrunk on the IBT.
Another round of MMing.

IBT
ELite liegion kill dutch cav.
dutch cav dropped off in backyard
french massing an asult force.
legion army takes some damage but lives.
barbs try taking out our army, but many die. About 10 remain, spreading out.

Turn 5 (1000AD)
Found Gordion in the SE.
Legionary is redlined, but takes out dutch cav.
Move settler in position to found near iron in the SE. Use army as cover.
Kill the first cav I've seen in a stack, saving our unit from being open. About time.
Paris and Orleans shrink again.
Finish the pillage of Paris, or near enough. Send 1 army pair north to take the horse away from the Babs.

IBT
antium attack by bab knight, who dies.
same thing as before, but this time our legion falls.
russia is no launching attacks on the east coast.
bab cavs retreat to our legionary near Samara.
English want to talk. To busy.
France moves around, and barbs attack our army again, doign no damage to us, but they mainly die.
The loss of the unit in Antium causes them to riot.

Turn 6 (1010AD)
Found Agrippina.
The AI isn't attack right now, is a bit of break where I think they're regrouping for another on-slaught.
Bombard all the units that are close, no options for attack. You guys are going to hate how I'm just bombarding I'm sure, but I want to wait til we have Knights before I continue with attacking instead of just defending, and we don't have the Knights right now.

IBT
bab cav dies at arretium
bab cav kills elite legion
dutch cav retreats at arretium
elite legion dies to dutch cav at arretium
french cav dies to legion at byzantium
french cav retreats at tarentm
french cav dies at byznatium
repeat
barbs sack agrippina for 1 gold
Veii grows before settler builds, and riots.

Turn 7(1020AD)
bombard all units down to nothing.
Found Cyrene, just barely cutting of Aztecs from founding a city in our southeast.
Found Tyrus on the last spot in the SE. The only way left to expand is by conquest.
The new cities allow us to turn sci up 10%, and still gain GPT. We'll loose 28 if we go another one.

Sorry Gentleman, I'm going to stop here. I think we need to declare on the Aztecs, and it's about the time to do it.

Going to need to bring cats over to the northeast to take those cities. We have to many units over in the west, and for good reason. we have alot ot assults happening every turn. Good luck!

Here's the save. Score is 794, only 4 civs stronger then us.

 

[grahamiam]

Ouch. Massive barb uprisings near Eburacum. We didn't get the cities down there quick enough.

did you happen to catch anything about Mad-Bax's "puzzle"? I'm sure that was timed for the player as usually, those uprisings occur when any 2 civ's reach the MA

edit: here's the pic for visual people like me I would save knights for 10+spt towns for now as we could always use more defenders. It's just a fact that we lose a lot of defenders, especially since we are facing cav. However, I like the thought We should probably get Rome up to 14spt if possible, giving us a knight every 5T. 12spt gives us one every 6T, while 18spt gets us to 4T.

 

[RowAndLive]

Nice set Alerum. I certainly don't mind the bombarding, as it helps to keep us alive. Hopefully we're finishing off the red ones so that they don't heal and come back as a stack.

Your purple contact is the Iroquois. I'm sure that the only one not declared on yet would be the Aztecs. Taking a trade now would be good, but then we might as well go into AW mode. I can't wait to see what the Barb puzzle is, as it supposedly pertains to the next game...

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Filling in the southeast was great work. We now have three areas to concentrate on: the east coast, the Gate, and the west coast.

Here is an idea. We need to consolidate our front further. Fight a holding action at the Gate, Tarentum, and Arretium. Use your attack forces to sweep up the east coast, resettling as often as possible. By moving the front up to the Rheims area, we will reduce the number of cities under constant attack from seven or eight to four. That will allow concentration of our cats, armies, defenders, and attackers.

the pillaging campaign is already hurting Joan, look at Paris, it was size 11, now it is size 7. Perhaps if she is weak, someone may want to attack her also.

Do we have silks yet? The Greek lands will give us those.

Gozmoium and Aesonium are named after players who were in the top five in GOTM 15 or 14. Cracker used to name cities in honor of top players.

 

[denyd]

Alerum: Very nice work in the SE and with the pillaging.

I glad to see our SE is finally secured. Now we can begin clearing the riff-raff from our eastern front. With a couple of pillaging armies, that flow of cavalry will soon disappear. I do worry about having to face rifles when attacking, but hopefully we'll have cannons by the time we get to those cities.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Pillaging around Paris is sort off like getting the swamp drained before wrestling with the alligators.

It will also start costing her money which in turn will reduce her research and ability to cash rush anything. I think Joanie will be gassed well before R&L and me get to play again.

Roster Check

Denyd
G-man
Alerum - The terror of Paris
Bede - Up - The destroyer of Greece?
R&L - On Deck - The Destroyer of Paris?
Bugs