SGOTM3 Rome - Team Peanut

[civ_steve]

Good job, Keith! The pressure is on England, and especially Greece. I wouldn't be surprised if Peanut just about eliminates both of these Nations from our continent.

All the new cities on the coast should be building Galleys, and pop-rushing them as soon as they are able. We should try to get an initial landing over there very soon; I think Rhodes would be a good target once Athens and a couple other Greek cities are razed. We need to find out where the other civs are; if they're on the Eastern continent, that would be great. We should save a couple empty armies to be transferred over, then fill them up on the other continent. So I'd leave maybe 4 or 5 Legions to clean up the remaining Southern Greek cities, and send a force of 4-6 Cav over to see what's going on.

When we make contact with the first foreign civ, we'll have to declare war on them as we leave the diplo screen. Be sure to get by whatever means possible at least their WM, and probably all other contacts as well. We need to find out how far behind they are and whether we'll need any other research to handle them.

Babylon is starting to put out a bunch of Cav. We need to finish England quickly, and show Babylon where they fit in OUR world order. Right now we have a lot of border to defend, and several border cities; try to limit the number of vulnerable cities we build until we can eliminate England and Babylon. At this point cities should be built to form barriers that the AI will find hard to penetrate, and to project power and support towards our future victims. We have lots of territory that we're taking from Greece to form cities to support our army, build our navy, (don't forget to pop-rush when you can!!) so don't think of building cities in the North as a means to grab territory. And if our cities are going into CD, they are too big; build a settler.

Good Luck, Peanut!!

 

[Keith Larson]

You are right Civ-steve. I should not have built so many new cities up north. It was getting hard to defend them all. It would have also encouraged the AI to build settlers, which at this point is a waste of shields for them. Too bad they don't have new wonders to throw they shields away on.

Is there a target city we want to move our new galleys to? I was unsure.

 

[Peanut]

A mixed bag again from General Peanut. In summary : 3 Leaders (all armies) but I managed to lose two armies (1 Knight, 1 Cav) in assaults against England. Those muskets are tough ! I also lost two border towns but recaptured or resettled them shortly afterwards. Enemy losses – Athens, London, Delphi, Argos, Canterbury, Thessalonica, Tours. Alex has one city left on the continent. Oh, and we have a world map and a new enemy – Japan. read on …

Just read your comments CS. Oops - I forgot to pop-rush some galleys but we have 5 now and some caravels coming in a few turns. England fights on but not for too much longer. I haven't started to marshal boats yet as there were a swarm of English, Bab and Greek galleys about along our west coast and I didn't want to lose any.

Pre-turn check : Our economy looks great and there’s a lot more of the Roman Empire that I remember from my last turn in the captain’s chair. Great work folks. Here we go …

IBT : What at start ! A Bab cavalry attacks Trapezus. Our musket defender is so inspired by the awesome legend of Bruce’s heroic last stand against the Greeks that not only does he fend him off, but Titus emerges from the gunpowder haze. We name the musket “Hammer of the Babylonians”. Then he fends off TWO more cavalry, who retreat in shame. (Of course, the cannons helped a bit). Trapezus must really get up the nose of the Babylonians. A Greek knight then hurled himself at the defenders of Seleucia. Splat ! His remains are hosed away with little effort. And apart from a few boats, that’s it ! Where is everybody ? We will have to go in search of them …

960AD : Some MPs built to keep the peace. Titus builds an army and advertises for volunteers. First, Athens. We must sack the cannon commander. 0 out of five shots ! Three Hoplites later, one legion lost, a redlined Cav army, and Athens is rubble. Bruce is avenged ! Four Greek slaves are sacrificed to Mars. Our army retreats to Seleucia to recuperate. Next London – A desperate gamble. Three Cavalry Armies take out a musket each. Two extra cavalry are called up – one redlined, one takes out another musket and Trajan emerges ! Our Cavalry takes on the mantle of “Hammer of the English”. And there’s still at least one blasted musket left !

IBT : A cowardly English Cav skirts our massive army and takes out Augustadorum including 2 cannons. Poop. Reckless old Peanut strikes again – forgetting to reinforce. An optimistic English Cav lands near Aesonesium.

970AD : That foolish English cav sightseeing is dealt with. Augustodorum is avenged and the cannons recaptured. Back to London : Three more muskets taken out and now London is rubble. Six English slaves go to spend some quality time with Mars. Our armies retire to recuperate. “Bruceopolis” is settled, re-using the rubble of old Athens. Delphi is defended by one rather panic struck Greek Knight. Our Cavalry gently assure him that his passage will be swift and relatively painless, and then proceed to demonstrate to him. Delphi is now just a memory.

IBT : Crikey ! Foreigners ! Tokugawa is furious with us, yet he wants to trade ! Hmmm. He offers Printing Press for Chemistry. What a useless technology. How about Astronomy, we ask ? He asks for WM and Chemistry and 260G. We accept. Now, how about selling us your Map ? We will need it in order that we can find you and kill you, we mutter under our breath in Latin, knowing that this barbarian cannot understand. He asks for Condimentum, Suffimentum and Metallurgy. Well, you’ll get Metallurgy anyway I guess, so OK. Bye for now, Toku. Oh by the way, by order of the great god Madicus Baximus, we are now at war. So sorry. Those Babs must really hate Trapezus. A Bab Cav finally kills Hammer of the Babylonians (but we will remember ol’ HotB as we called him). Another Cav succumbs to the sword of a Legion. The Greeks land a Knight right next to the sun-bleached bones of that sightseeing English Cav. What a dummy !

980AD : Seems that the Aztecs and Indians also know about us but they have not dared contact us yet. The Greek Knight’s bones now lie beside the English Cav’s. A Cav dies attacking Argos. Ah well, it was worth a try. Other units are mostly recuperating. Augustodorum’s Revenge is settled.

IBT : A furious Ghandi wants to trade with us. We decline. We do not want these barbarian goods. Your clock is now ticking, Ghandi. Commence trembling. Is there no end to these vermin ? Now some fool named Montezuma thinks he can trade. Has he not heard of the might of Rome ? Go and hide. Your number will soon come up – long before you want it to ! An English Cav dies outside Augustodorum’s Revenge. A Greek Longbow lands looking for news of that Greek Knight, who apparently has not yet reported in.

990AD : More MPs are finished. Argos is now history. Three more Greek cities on our continent. The Longbow is sent after his Knight, but he also will have troubling reporting back unless he finds a handy medium. Our armies are still healing.

IBT : Some futile attacks. Nothing to write home to Mum about though.

1000AD : Ok – the march to Canterbury commences. Three cavalry armies camp at the front door. Our Cavalry continue their march along the south coast – Ephesus is now in ruins. We move to rebuild the mountain road to Bruceopolis.

IBT : The Bab Cavalry pound Tarentum with little success. Just love them walls ! Some American Knights appear over the horizon near Trapezus. Lizzie wants to talk – Not likely darling.

1010AD : Canterbury – Three muskets wiped out by 1 Cav army (still 7HP left), 83 gold captured ! On to Warwick. An 18HP Cav army, wiped out by a musket. Poop. The next army takes out a musket at a cost of 5hp

IBT : No attacks of significance. Some boating about.

1020AD : Bring the troops back for some R&R. Not much action this round.

IBT : Well well. This foreign clown in a feathered hat just appeared wanting to trade with Rome ! “Great Hiawatha” he calls himself. We laugh him out of here. These Bab cavalry are getting annoying – They captured Tyrus. Curses !! --- Must --- remember --- reinforcements ---

1030AD : We start off with something fun – the assault on Eretria. Hadrian emerges from the smoke and dust of battle. The next Cav dies. Ah well. Next time … We recapture Tyrus with no loss.

IBT : Lots of settlers wandering past Trapezus. 2 Russian, 1 Bab, 1 French. And the Greeks are trying to resettle the south coast. Sorry, no, Alex. That’s Roman land now. The Babs land a Knight in the SAME spot. It’s getting a bit crowded there amongst all the skeletons of foreign troops past.

1040AD : The sightseeing Bab knight dies. Swiftly. A Knight Army hurls itself against Coventry – unsuccessfully. Sorry lads. Bit optimistic. Hadrian builds an army.

IBT : A few unsuccessful attacks.

1050AD : Thessalonica is rubble. We eliminate the two Russian and the French settler fouling up the landscape near Trapezus. A Cav Army takes a guided tour of Tours. They proceed to tear Tours to tatters. Ta ta Tours. They may well be in trouble, however as they have 2 HP left. But we slide a nearly-healed cav army up from Tarentum to give some cover. Iron reconnected and all horses upgraded to knights. Some frontier warriors upgraded to Legion. A Cav army is nearly filled with cavs from slower producing cities and sent to the front. Salt wil connect next turn.

Closing comments : We have two armies waiting to be filled. We are at war with Japan, and should declare on India no later than 20 turns after 980AD. Then the Aztecs, then the Iroquois. The English have 3 mainland cities left, the Greeks one. Warwick might be a good target next, and Eretria should fall next turn, kicking Alex off the continent of Greater Rome ! We have 4 settlers in transit, 3 in the south and one heading to repopulate former English territory. We should ponder on a palace relocation soon to get our production improved. We still have no army costs, and can handle another 17 free units, and another 16 when our settlers find homes. 855 gold & 135gpt coming in. We bought Astronomy from Japan, and we could think about speeding up research on Navigation and rushing Magellans (if we get a leader that is).

Best of luck, General Peglegasus … The 1050AD Save

 

[civ_steve]

A good set of turns from a (normally) peaceful Peanut! Greece is on the ropes and the referee is counting, France is cowering in the corner, and England is looking very bloody indeed. I said before that the game would go quicker once we learned Cavalry; 3 sets of turns in 3 days is a record for this team.

To lessen the loss of armies, I'd recommend that they not be used in attack once they are half damaged. Learning Astronomy now is a bit of a mixed bag: Caravels can carry 3 units, but they still only have 3 movement so even with Sea spaces being safe for us, we don't have a safe crossing. And they cost 40 shields to produce, so we have to go 20 turns before pop-rushing or use 2 citizens. If we get Navigation, we will have a safe crossing; however, there are only 30 turns left to win the Laurel so we have to do things to try to accomplish this.

Here is the best crossing in my opinion:

This is the Drazek technique. The fleet is assembled at location 0. 2/3 of the Caravels move over to position1 while the remaining 1/3 get loaded. On turn 2 the loaded ships move to position 1, transfer their loads to the survivors of the first group and these newly loaded at sea Caravels continue on to position2. We will lose a number of Caravels, but we wont lose any of our land military. On turn 3 the Caravels drop their load on the Hill space, which provides the best defensive position. Assuming we bring at least one settler with us, we can form a city the following turn and begin offensive operations.

Here is the F3 minimap:

Right now only the English, Babylonians and Germans know Cavalry on our continent, and unless the Japanese know it, no one knows it on the other continent. We should push our forces West, then North, to finish off England, then continue East along Babylon to take them out. This will place our main units adjacent to Germany, which should then be next. The Russians and Americans are fairly behind, so they should be done in last. Along the way to Germany, France will find herself placed in exile. By doing this (going East through Babylon, North through Germany, and then back West through Russia and America), we will take care of the Civs that have the strongest units that can hurt us, and place our forces near the loading zone for our ocean crossing.

We need to get a good crop of cities built along the English coast to support our navy builds; these cities are probably the highest priority so I wouldn't place too many more in Babylon or Greece until we get these English coastal cities built.

I have a sneaky idea regarding our Palace; it's called the Palace teleporter! Once we place our new city on the 2nd continent, we use a GL (either transported over or generated there) to rush the Palace in a 2nd continent city. We then load a ton of military units into a border town on our continent. Armies, Cav, Cannons, etc. Finally, we gift this border town to one of the 2nd continent civs we are not at war with yet, and all these units are instantly teleported to our Capital ... on the 2nd continent!! This is obviously exploitive, so I'd like to see some discussion on this first, and determine whether it's allowed under Gotm or SGOTM rules (under Gotm rules, a Palace Jump is allowed if a core group of cities is or will be built around it.)

Finally, what are all those Knights and other units doing on Holiday in our interior cities! This is a fighting army!! In my set of turns I moved all interior units to the fronts or borders; warriors and horsemen alike. That way, when I upgraded them, they were immediately ready to be used. We need NO MP's in our interior cities. With 4 Luxuries and Hanging Gardens, we can have a size6 city be content with 0 MPs, so get these units to the Front. Any size6 city should build a Settler before it becomes size7. Most everything should be at the front, or one city behind it, waiting for upgrade. The Knights would be really helpful taking out AI units allowing our Cav to attack cities. For the non-front border, space Warriors/Legions about 5 spaces apart, with a Horseman/Knight/Cav near every other Legion; that should allow us to respond to any incursions. And if we place a couple of cannons near our Northern border on each coast, we can bombard any AI Galleys going by, making it likely they will retreat so we wont have to deal with dropoffs.

Now that the map is fully revealed, it looks like the continents are switched, with the long dividing continent still in its place. And the AI have been switched from continent to continent as well; Rome was originally where the Aztecs are in Gotm16. Only place a few units on the long thin continent to clean out the remnants of our AI; the bulk of our units have to use the crossing or the teleporter to take the fight to the 2nd continent.

We only have 30 turns left to wrest the Laurel from Team Smackster; a lot needs to get done and quickly. I'd suggest forming little Army groups - a Cav army supported by 3-4 Cav, with follow-up Legions and Cannons to move in and protect the wounded. Target individual cities with one of the Army groups; target Capitals with two Army groups (they will be more heavily defended); each one should take down a major city every 1 to 3 turns, then rest at a city to heal quickly.

I will be out of town on Monday and Tuesday; I should be able to check in though, and post any suggestions.

Good luck, General Peglegasus!!

 

[Peanut]

Well lads, I'm still learning the tricks of this game. The holidaying Knights were just upgraded, I remembered later in the round to send the horses to the front for their upgrade but I missed some. I admit I forgot that we had happiness under control with the extra luxuries & the HG. I had in the back of my mind that we needed MPs in size 5&6 cities. In the immortal words of the philosopher Homer, D'Oh ! That explains why the top rankings are a quantum leap (or three) in skill above my level.

The sea crossing point looks good, CS. We should start gathering our ships soon. I am not sure the palace teleporter gambit is quite ethical - I would rather not do it. What do you all think ?

If we pump up research we will get Nav faster, especially if the 2nd continent civs get it first. We may even be able to risk buying it.

Peglegasus : there may be a few horses and workers scurrying around on the last stage of a goto. I think I got them all but if any slipped through - sorry. I had to rush the last few rounds a bit. Go forth and slaughter !

 

[Peglegasus]

30 turns... can it be done?

I have the save and will look it over tomorrow. I'm sure I'll have questions so I'll post hem before proceeding.

I'm with Peanut in regards to the teleporter. I've never heard of that trick and think I'll try it in a solo game I'm playing just for kicks, but I don't think it's right in this case.

 

[civ_steve]

I agree that the Teleporter is questionable in general, and maybe, since we are supposed to be xenophobic, it would seem odd that we'd give away one of our towns to the 'aliens'. On the practical side, it's the only way we can transport any of our 4-unit Armies (which count as FIVE units) to the 2nd continent prior to Transports being available.

That being the case, it would make sense to use a GL to move our Capital elsewhere and pick up some increased shield and commerce. Veii holds our FP, and we're still in Despotism (which at this point we may never leave), so perhaps near the NE corner (maybe Ceasaraugusta) to form a 2nd core. Or maybe up the Western coast to add a few more shields to our Caravel building cities. (If we can get them to 2 shields per turn, we could generate twice as many Caravels, and I think getting a large navy ASAP is the key to how quickly we finish this game.)

30 turns is really fast. How much time will it take to do in 4 fresh civs with all their units? (OK, more like 3 civs; the Iroquois look like the weakling of the bunch.) I'd like to be landed on their continent within 15 turns to give us 15 turns to do some damage. I don't think that will be enough. We have 5 Galleys now (which need to be upgraded to Caravels; I think Jerusalem is our only Harbor, so they need to go there.) We need a minimum of 10 more Caravels to have a good shot at landing 5 ships worth of stuff (15 units) at the landing spot. That's a pretty spare beginning (which was why I was suggesting the Teleporter in the first place.)

Peglegasus: your key job is to get the Caravels rolling out of the Western coastal cities (along with wiping out most of the continental civs and starting the process against the exile cities on the long continent.) We need at least 10 more Caravels ASAP; 15 or 20 would be much better. We will lose a bunch of them during the crossing, so they have to keep on coming. (This is an area we have neglected )

To expand on the army group idea above, I believe we have 5 Cav armies; maybe maintain 2 of them with 6-8 supporting Cav, and Legions, to take out the English and work on the Babylonians. Send the remaining 3 with 10-12 supporting Cav (I haven't checked to see exactly how many free Cav are available so these numbers are approximate) to take the last French city and move on the Germany proper. I think this is a faster way to do in Babylon and Germany than focusing on just Babylon first; but please be mindful of how damaged the Armies are, and be sure to heal them when they need it. All areas will need supporting Legions, Cannons and Settlers.

Good Luck!

 

[Keith Larson]

Is victory in 30 turns a realistic goal? I don't think so. I suggest we now go for knocking every nation down to few unproductive cities (pillaging all their improvements). Make sure we get as close to 66% pop and land as we can and that every citizen is happy, then milk until 2050. To pull this off I think we would have to periodically "gift" cities to the AI. I personally don't think this is against the spirit of the varient as long as we think of these "cities" as "reservations" or "hunt clubs." If we kill off all the alliens who how will our young Romans develop that ruthless fighting spirit against?

 

[Peanut]

Generals - I say we work as hard as possible to finish this game off as fast as we can. Follow the variant rules (in spirit as well as to the letter), wipe 'em out, play to rid this Roman world of all those irritating others. (now is that xenophobic or what from this mild-mannered Peanut ?).

Whether we finish in 30 turns or 90 - so what ? This has been an enjoyable game and to me will remain so whether we finish first or we get that coveted wooden prize. Besides, if we grab the spoon we can hang it on the wall beside the gold laurel from last game to remind us that we are in this for the fun of it.

 

[dmanakho]

Is victory in 30 turns a realistic goal? I don't think so.

I didn't think so either

Make sure we get as close to 66% pop and land as we can and that every citizen is happy, then milk until 2050.

Milking??? are you guys going to play this game till Christmas????
You will definitely miss next SGOTM

 

[mad-bax]

If you milk the game I'll guillotine you
Because other teams (particularly the Staff team ) are a long way from the end of the game it may be possible for you to milk to the better end, and I may delay the start of the next game a little to allow more teams to finish. But if you think you are going to spend another 3 months milking this game then please think again.

 

[Peglegasus]

Again, I'm with Peanut. Rome must conquer all! I vote for seeing the variant through even if it takes longer than the 30 turns we need to beat Smackster.

Now about the save... I've been looking it over and am concerned about how thin our forces are spread in the north. Can you guys give me any suggestions? I'm tempted to retreat the severely wounded army by Babylon to a city to heal. I'm going to move the MP's to the front and to the coast as civ steve suggests. Build ships... I guess my main problem is how to regroup and deploy our northern offensive forces.

 

[Keith Larson]

Since mad-bax had the opportunity to comment on the teleporter question and didn't I say let's go for it. The "spirit" of this game is total domination and if this will help us dominate, lets do it.

 

[mad-bax]

The teleportation trick is not specifically banned in GOTM. Sorry I didn't deal with it earlier. I only scan read the threads most of the time and can miss stuff once in a while.

 

[civ_steve]

Milking?!? You must have a lot of time on your hand, Keith!! IMO, you may take the next to last save and have at it, if you wish. Let's get this game done as quickly as possible.

Peglegasus: yes, any significantly damaged Armies will have to retreat to the nearest city to heal. Since they can move 9 spaces in one turn, we want to be sure we have a Settler/Legion/Cannon stack following the Cav as they go in. That way we can form a city to heal the offensive units and form a base of operations. 9 Movement along roads will cover a lot of territory, so we don't have to have cities everywhere; pick a few spots that are spaced appropriately. Single Cav units with 3 or mor HitPoints of damage are also healed more quickly by retreating them to a city. And if a Cav is vulnerable anyway, better to retreat it than to lose it.

Maybe we plan to use the Teleportation trick to move our Armies over; there is no other way to get them engaged without it. We only need a Caravel or two to conquer the thin continent; just ove 3 Legions/Cav over, here and there and let them work their way towards each other. I'd leave lookout units spaced along the thin continent, just to be sure no one from the 2nd continent sneaks over.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier; my hotel didn't have a business center so I could check in on things. I'm at the airport now, and will be home tonight.

 

[Peglegasus]

All right, I'm halfway through my turns. Things are going slowly but well. Slow partly because our units were spread out in the north and partly because I'm probably over cautious. We have yet another army. Greece has been kicked off the mainland and there are no foreign cities left in the south, though there are galleys of all colors rushing down that way now. I've been upgrading units as I go of course and I've had a little windfall crushing a couple English cities. We have over 1000 gold in the treasury which equals 20 cavalry upgrades, but I've got no horses left to spend it on. Here's the big question: anyone mind me pop-rushing about 20 or so horses? Having another 20 cav ready to go all at once would ROCK.

I think that especially in our towns that are getting to size six and seven that right now this would be much more useful than having them build a settler.

 

[civ_steve]

I have no problem pop-rushing in cities that are little 1-shield producers, ones that are highly corrupted. Coastal cities should focus on Caravels exclusively; we don't want to crush all opponents on our continent, and then sit for 20 turns twiddling our fingers because we have no navy (the current case.)

I'm hesitant to pop-rush in centrally located cities; take a close look to see if it makes sense. The extra unhappiness reduces the number of stable working citizens by one, usually meaning 1 or 2 fewer shields per turn. This unhappiness lasts for 20 turns, I believe. So if you lose 1 shield/turn, you in effect borrow the 20 shields and pay it back over the next 20 turns. If you lose 2 shields/turn, you end up paying 100% interest. Depending on the city's situation, you might be losing a shield that was lost already due to increased Waste; in this case you can actually gain the 20 shields for free. Of course you also lose the food and commerce of that citizen too. Under Republic I'd say never, but in Despotism, with a lot of cash looking for units to upgrade, it might be worth it.

BTW, if we limit any new Armies we make to just 2 units loaded into them (an Army with 2 Cavs for instance), we will be able to transport these Armies with our Caravels. I'd recommend not fully loading new Armies until After transport to the 2nd continent.

 

[Peglegasus]

Ok I'll see what I can come up with.

 

[civ_steve]

Peglegasus: I added a note about armies in my post; just in case you missed it.

 

[Peglegasus]

Got it, Steve! Almost done. Gotta finish my last turn and I'm taking a break to rest my eyes . Never have I marshalled such a huge force so all the units take a while for me to move. It's been fun and quite a learning experience for me. I think the AI have just about exhausted themselves as the counter attacks now are very weak.