SGOTM3 Rome - Team Smackster

[Wotan]

Ok here goes: first a map then my report.

Turn log

0 - 2150BC preturn
Changed Veii build to Spearman

IBT: Nada

1 - 2110BC
Nada

IBT: Nada

2 - 2070BC
Veii: Spearman -> Settler
Moved Warrior from Veii towards Antium.

IBT: Worker clears forest.

3 - 2030BC
MM Antium to finish Granary in 2. Warrior reaches Antium. Worker roads former forest.

INT: NAda

4 - 1990BC
Nada

IBT: England and America have appeared in F4. One or both of them have IW so sots dropped dramatically and will be ready in 1 turn. Greece builds Termopylae

5 – 1950BC
Antium Granary -> Warrior
Iron appears in hills SE wines near Veii!!! And another at the “second” settler factory site in N. Researching the Wheel ready in 11. The high cost 100-110 beakers suggests neither England nor America have it. A bonus would be to get it before them and contact one of them to trade before DoW period countdown starts?

IBT: Nada

6 - 1910BC
Worker finish road move to game.

IBT: Nada

7 – 1870BC
Veii: Settler -> Spearman

IBT: Nada

8 - 1830BC
Antium: Warrior -> Barracks

IBT: Nada

9 - 1790BC
Settler and Warrior moving towards 3rd city site.

IBT: Russia, Germany and Babylon appears in F4 and someone have the Wheel since the cost went down a bit.

10 – 1250BC
The Wheel in 2 turns.
Veii will build a Spearman/Archer next turn. Antium is set to build a Barracks but this can be shifted to a Settler if needed, some MM required to get full benefit from the shields generated here. 3rd city settler in position to build city next turn. Since our economy will be rather low (understatement?) building Warriors for Legionary upgrades seems wrong. Maybe a few?
We have plenty of possible contacts. A discussion re. this is needed. I suggest we at least wait until the Wheel is researched. And then check the F8 screen for current scores to help us decide in what order to approach our neighbours.

Caveat: With the game forest due to clear in 7 turns this will by default go to the new city. If we do not want it to go to that city but to our Settler factory just reallocate the new city’s production to a palace build the turn before the worker finishes his chopping and the shields will end up in Antium.

Firaxis score: 130, we lost a few points compared to earlier turns but since we are going with the variant score is of less importance than speed. The settler being built this period did have some impact too.

 

[Tarkeel]

Nice turns there Wotan

Ok, we have 2 more contacts, but we haven't contacted them yet. It's over 20 turns since the war with Greece started, so we'll have declare war on the first we talk to.

We should talk to both the new civs in the same turn, and try to use gpt with the second, as it will expire the same turn we have to declare war on them.

About catapults, we really need them to keep our kill ratio as high as possible. The defensive bombard will also help us out a lot.

I'd say go for settler or worker in Antium, it will be a lil while before it gets the shields needed to pump 4 turn settlers.

Resource wise we're looking in shape so far, 2 luxes and 2 iron sources. Let's just hope that we have horses somewhere nearby.

 

[Wotan]

England, France, America, Russia, Germany and Babylon are all in F4. So, when we do contact them we need to think hard on how to use the contact distribution to our (possible) advantage. Just guessing I would say France, Germany are closest together with Greece, after that England, Russia and Babylon in a second wave and America farthest away.

Also, it is time to discuss the next location for a city. One good location even though it is at RCP6 is hills E of northern Iron (1 on map in post above). It will be a possible settler factory too, with fp/game next to it. The other area would be SW of Veii to get the spices within our borders. That would take two cities, one at RCP3 (SW/SW/W = 2) and the other at RCP6 (forest SE of spices=3). Alternatively we could put next city 2S (coastal forest=4) of city built next turn. That would also get the spices within our borders. I would vote for site "1" to be next on the list followed by either "2+3" duo or going directly "4". All four site are going to be built on according to earlier discussions so it is just a question of priority.

 

[dmanakho]

Guys guys, don't research wheel...
trust me on this, wheel will be extremely cheap to buy because by now all the rest of civs but us know this tech...
we will be able to buy all those techs much cheaper than amount of time and money we spend on research...

EDIT: Great Library should be a priority... Trust me by the time we have literature AIs will have Feudalism and Chivalry or about to have... our legions will be useless against knights and pikemen if we do research every AA technology ourselves at max...

MORE EDITS: Never mind my wheel whining. I posted it too late

 

[smackster]

Guess we don't have to worry about exploring now, as we know everyone (well not everyone). I assume somebody got Writing. For contacts I think we should wait for the next contact on us, just to give us more breathing room. When that contact is made, then get all the other contacts and then we get do a little trading. I assume they are not contacting us as we have nothing to offer them in tech and no gold to buy one of theirs.

I'm thinking that dmanahko is right and after wheel should start researching towards literature, and to a big GL pre-build. The problem is that the AI might build it before we get Literature

Our only resource now that the AI will want is our Map, so I assume nobody has MM yet, when they do they will come asking. If that is our next contact then don't sell it to them as they will sell it to all the others. Better to declare war on that one, get what ever tech you can, but not for the map. Then our next turn trade it to all the others, that should give us a boost.

Given a choice, I would contact the AI in the following order America, England, Russia, Germany, Babylon

 

[Wotan]

I agree with going to Literature and GL. A prebuild might be interesting but we should not rule out a GL (Great Leader), we are militaristic and we will be fighting a lot. If we do get one very close to when Literature is researched or we already have it I would prefer to use it for the GL (Great Library).

Edit: dmanahko, yes to question below, I agree with the use of a possible GL to build the GL.

 

[dmanakho]

I am afraid of same thing regarding Great Library, our only hope that AI will ignore this tech as they usually do,
If we get a military great leader, when we start GL i suggest to use it to rush GL instead of building an army, we will have more MGLs later...
The reason i am saying that that i am almost positive AIs will be way into medieval ages by the time and if we rush GL we will be able to start building Medieval Infantrys and may be even knights in couple of turns after rushing GLs... it will be better to have knights than a single legion army.

What does team think?

 

[Tarkeel]

About leaders... SirPleb made some calculations on turning the first leader into an army to get the Heroic Epic. On average, turning the first into an army won't pay off before you've gotten 4 more leaders, so you're usually better off rushing an important early wonder such as pyramids or library.

Also remember that armies are much better in conquests then PTW.

 

[smackster]

Yes the army is worthless really. Its funny as I often use my 4th/5th leader for the army/HE, but then I never seem to get any more leaders after I have built it. Once we have some legions, we could use Greece for leader farming, so don't attack their cities, just goad them out and attack them in the open. We could also mess up their infrastructure, cut their roads, etc. Pick off their weak cities first, we can't capture them of course.

 

[dmanakho]

I concur with what Smackster said, we need to do some major pillaging...
First, we will need to fortify few legions in our cities for defence and then sent a stack of 4 or 5 to Greece to open a hunting season.

 

[smackster]

So Greece was quiet for 10 turns, I'm not suprised, those 4 troops that dmanakho killed were their spares, so they will send more as they get more spare. I have noticed that the AI has a defensive calculation, depending on the number of cities and their size and it doesn't matter what you do they will leave that number at home (the capital gets a bonus too). Therefore only when they have 2-3 above that number will they send them our way, and of course they wont wait for more than 2-3. So expect little Greek attacks up until we do them some damage.

 

[smackster]

Everyone take a look at the maintenance thread as MB has updated the rules, to clarify them a little. For instance if the AI demand anything from us, if we say no, then there is no contact, if we say yes, then there is contact. So don't give in to demands.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=93900

If we continue as we are then it could be some time before we get a new contact. IE. we have no tech they want, and we have no gold. Therefore I think we should continue this way. Build our legions to sort out Greece, even if we do get an earlier than we want GA. Only when Map making is in play will we get that contact, I think. It might be another 20-40 turns before that happens. And in that time, little Rome, will grow, grow, grow.

 

[smackster]

The Roster

smackster (next up)
Tarkeel
dmanahko
Wotan (just played)
DeceasedHorse (playing)

 

[dmanakho]

Just for clarification, have we decided to start researching writing->literature?
with possible GL prebuild?

 

[smackster]

Just for clarification, have we decided to start researching writing->literature?
with possible GL prebuild?

After the wheel. And hopefully we'll get HBR in a trade, once we start trading, its nice to get some horses too.

I just looked at the last turns (can't load the game however). How about switching that Barracks in Antium for a settler. Antium only needs to be size 4 when we start the factory, and we are some way from that now, and as its only going to pump settlers, doesn't need a barracks.
Next settler should go to the space Wotan marked on the map with a 1. Best for production.
After that I would like to Veii pump out another worker. Who can start working towards the iron.
We need to check the military screen, don't want to build too many and have to start paying gold. Can somebody check our unit support?

 

[dmanakho]

I think it's okay to build archers instead of warriors until we have iron to build legions.. Archers will be used in border cities for defensive bombardment

 

[smackster]

I think it's okay to build archers instead of warriors until we have iron to build legions.. Archers will be used in border cities for defensive bombardment

OK, but don't go crazy right, fine balance between expansion and defence. Use the military advisor unit support as a guide, don't go above that number.

Just noticed, I'm next, that was quick. If DeceasedHorse plays tonight, so will I most likely as RedSox are on until about 1am, so I have to watch that. edit: just to clarify that, Baseball is perfect for Civ, as its so slow you can play the game, while watching, Cricket is even better suited to Civ.

 

[dmanakho]

Absolutely!! in Veii we should try to squeeze workers, we don't have enough workers, we need three times as many to improve infrastructure.

 

[Wotan]

@Smackster: There is a worker under the Spearman on the wine tile roading it now. So Veii can continue building Military units until it is at size 5-6. At size 5-6 we can build a 20 shield unit every third turn with some MMing and build Workers each time it is supposed to grow to 7. Not having a Granary there do cost us when using it as a Worker factory.

 

[smackster]

That northern city, should be good for a worker factory, and should start pumping them quickly so we should certainly settle that next - 1 - on the map.

I think the city after that should 2, maybe followed by 4. I like those locations as they look relatively safe. We will have to expand east at somepoint, but maybe not quite yet.

I know I say this a lot, getting that settler factory running full steam is the best path to victory. So the next worker should go that way to help mine some the BG and G.