Thank you! Of the other Teams who have announced a 20K run, Team Alamo completed GLib in 350 BC, Team Bede completed it in 925 BC, and Team X in 1225 BC! Other Wonders or culture buildings are built before and after. Team Alamo's completion in 350 BC seems a bit risky if the Great Library is critical for your game plan, but the earlier dates seem generally safe.tao said:We completed it 850BC.
SGOTM4 - Spoiler1. Middle ages plus continental map
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
And so the motley crew known as Team Bugs, were cast upon the banks of the river to form an Indian civilization to stand the test of time. The team decided to rotate responsibility for leadership and the first lot went to Grahamiam. Chief Grahamiam was known to all as THE G-MAN. The G-man had some interesting news for his teammates. The gods MB and AH had changed the name of their civilization to Carthage. So be it! We will still prevail! The team shout in unison.
He made Bugsy, the worker and told him to go east. He made Denyd, the settler and made him go northeast, settling our first city in 3950 BC. G-man named it Carthage in honor of our civilization. He made Row&Live our scientist and he went off to research the Wheel and the maximum possible rate.
Bedhead was assigned warrior/exploration duty and found another civilization, named Rome, in 3050 BC. He sent word back to G-man that they could trade the knowledge of bronze working for masonry and five gold pieces.
In 3000 BC R&L returned with the knowledge of the wheel and a mythical creature called the horse. The entire team thought he was a nut, because we had never seen such a creature. We decided to change leadership, since it was G-mans idea to chase after such silly knowledge. The reigns of power were given to denyd and he instructed G-man to go off and research a way to make powerful weapons.
Denyd had big plans for our civilization. We would make one city the envy of the world. In 2950 BC, he founded Utica, and immediately instructed the citizens to begin building a huge bronze statue of himself. The remaining team members thought that was a bit vain of Denyd, but it was a good plan so they let him go with it. Later, as the statue progressed, the other leaders would subtly change the blueprints and the Colossus as it became known, became a curvaceous scantily clad 50-foot woman. It was completed in 1375 BC, also while Denyd was our leader de jour. When the statue was unveil, he was extremely angry for about ten seconds then he became very lustful and tried to figure out a way to have the bronze clothing removed.
Bedhead sent word to the new leader in 2800 BC, that a deal could be arranged to learn about archery from Caesars technicians. It would cost us a but of gold, but we could get a female slave in the process. Denyd looked about the cave, and decided a slave to clean up after himself and his very messy teammates would be a very good idea. The slave when she arrived was so disgusted with the fact that these men had failed to take out the garbage for almost 1200 years, that she immediately decided to join the road crews building roads between Carthage and Utica.
The team was so pleased with Bedheads trading prowess, that he was invited back to be the next leader. One of Bedheads initiatives, along with altering the blueprints
was to add additional workers to Uticas project.
Another was the founding our our civilizations third city, Leptis on the western shore. He instructed the new governor, Bugsy, to build military units, and create a strong army to attack the creepy Caesar.
In 2110 BC, Bugsy ascended to live in the royal cave. He has seen the light in regards to a strong military. He had heard that Caesar knew how to make powerful weapons called swords. He told G-man to stop researching the art and just go buy the knowledge from Caesar. It cost our civilization 124 gold pieces and the promise of 7 additional pieces each year for 20 years. When G-man returned with the knowledge, Bugsy was infuriated to find that the red ore was a myth as well.
I saw an iron mine just outside Rome! G-man exclaimed.
Bugsy had an evil streak and proclaimed to the team, Twice now he has failed us. I think he should be sent away to a far off land where they speak a strange tongue. He should not be allowed to rule the next time it is his turn. And thus the G-man was sent to Japan where he didnt have internet access and was forced endure a typhoon.
In 1750 BC, Row&Live became our leader. He saw that Bugsys military ideas had merit and continued to build a force of archers. In 1675, Caesar demanded that we give him 21 gold pieces as tribute. R&L reluctantly gave the scoundrel the gold, but vowed to make him pay one day. He ordered barracks to be built to train veteran soldiers, and the Carthaginian forces grew.
In 1550 BC, Denyd took command of the cave again and developed a new type of warrior. We could pay the Numidians for the use of their warriors. We called them the Numidian Mercenaries.
He also founded our fourth city, Theveste in the Valley of the Sheep. The art of writing was discovered and he ordered that we find something to do with these letters. He sent R&L off to figure something out.
Here is our Colossus that was completed in 1375BC:
Denyd immediately started building a temple knowing how cultured that always made him feel.
In 1325 our fifth and final city, Hippo was founded to the northeast.
Here is a map of our civilization:
Uticas temple was completed during Bedheads turns, and a building he said was the pyramids started being built little did we know that he would turn it in to a fabulous library.
At the turn of the millennium, Bugsy moved into the cave again and started again on the military build up and set up Denyd for an attack on Rome. Under General Denyds tutelage, the Carthaginian archers were able to raze three Roman cities to the ground. Because he wasnt interested in starting a golden age, he kept our NuMerc in the rear. Unfortunately that caused our elite archers to take the brunt of any counterattacks. We had very poor leader luck. The leadership cycled through to Bedhead, because R&L ran off with the model we used for the Colossus, and G-man was still banished to Japan.
Bugsy learned to sail our galleys and discovered a far off civilization. Additionally this happened on his watch:
The Roman war raged on with very poor leader luck. However, the Great Library started to produce much knowledge. Eventually the G-man returned and started building an interesting idea called the Hanging Gardens. But the civilization entered the Middle Ages before it was completed.
He made Bugsy, the worker and told him to go east. He made Denyd, the settler and made him go northeast, settling our first city in 3950 BC. G-man named it Carthage in honor of our civilization. He made Row&Live our scientist and he went off to research the Wheel and the maximum possible rate.
Bedhead was assigned warrior/exploration duty and found another civilization, named Rome, in 3050 BC. He sent word back to G-man that they could trade the knowledge of bronze working for masonry and five gold pieces.
In 3000 BC R&L returned with the knowledge of the wheel and a mythical creature called the horse. The entire team thought he was a nut, because we had never seen such a creature. We decided to change leadership, since it was G-mans idea to chase after such silly knowledge. The reigns of power were given to denyd and he instructed G-man to go off and research a way to make powerful weapons.
Denyd had big plans for our civilization. We would make one city the envy of the world. In 2950 BC, he founded Utica, and immediately instructed the citizens to begin building a huge bronze statue of himself. The remaining team members thought that was a bit vain of Denyd, but it was a good plan so they let him go with it. Later, as the statue progressed, the other leaders would subtly change the blueprints and the Colossus as it became known, became a curvaceous scantily clad 50-foot woman. It was completed in 1375 BC, also while Denyd was our leader de jour. When the statue was unveil, he was extremely angry for about ten seconds then he became very lustful and tried to figure out a way to have the bronze clothing removed.
Bedhead sent word to the new leader in 2800 BC, that a deal could be arranged to learn about archery from Caesars technicians. It would cost us a but of gold, but we could get a female slave in the process. Denyd looked about the cave, and decided a slave to clean up after himself and his very messy teammates would be a very good idea. The slave when she arrived was so disgusted with the fact that these men had failed to take out the garbage for almost 1200 years, that she immediately decided to join the road crews building roads between Carthage and Utica.
The team was so pleased with Bedheads trading prowess, that he was invited back to be the next leader. One of Bedheads initiatives, along with altering the blueprints
was to add additional workers to Uticas project. Another was the founding our our civilizations third city, Leptis on the western shore. He instructed the new governor, Bugsy, to build military units, and create a strong army to attack the creepy Caesar.
In 2110 BC, Bugsy ascended to live in the royal cave. He has seen the light in regards to a strong military. He had heard that Caesar knew how to make powerful weapons called swords. He told G-man to stop researching the art and just go buy the knowledge from Caesar. It cost our civilization 124 gold pieces and the promise of 7 additional pieces each year for 20 years. When G-man returned with the knowledge, Bugsy was infuriated to find that the red ore was a myth as well.
I saw an iron mine just outside Rome! G-man exclaimed.
Bugsy had an evil streak and proclaimed to the team, Twice now he has failed us. I think he should be sent away to a far off land where they speak a strange tongue. He should not be allowed to rule the next time it is his turn. And thus the G-man was sent to Japan where he didnt have internet access and was forced endure a typhoon.
In 1750 BC, Row&Live became our leader. He saw that Bugsys military ideas had merit and continued to build a force of archers. In 1675, Caesar demanded that we give him 21 gold pieces as tribute. R&L reluctantly gave the scoundrel the gold, but vowed to make him pay one day. He ordered barracks to be built to train veteran soldiers, and the Carthaginian forces grew.
In 1550 BC, Denyd took command of the cave again and developed a new type of warrior. We could pay the Numidians for the use of their warriors. We called them the Numidian Mercenaries.
He also founded our fourth city, Theveste in the Valley of the Sheep. The art of writing was discovered and he ordered that we find something to do with these letters. He sent R&L off to figure something out.
Here is our Colossus that was completed in 1375BC:
Denyd immediately started building a temple knowing how cultured that always made him feel.
In 1325 our fifth and final city, Hippo was founded to the northeast.
Here is a map of our civilization:
Uticas temple was completed during Bedheads turns, and a building he said was the pyramids started being built little did we know that he would turn it in to a fabulous library.
At the turn of the millennium, Bugsy moved into the cave again and started again on the military build up and set up Denyd for an attack on Rome. Under General Denyds tutelage, the Carthaginian archers were able to raze three Roman cities to the ground. Because he wasnt interested in starting a golden age, he kept our NuMerc in the rear. Unfortunately that caused our elite archers to take the brunt of any counterattacks. We had very poor leader luck. The leadership cycled through to Bedhead, because R&L ran off with the model we used for the Colossus, and G-man was still banished to Japan.
Bugsy learned to sail our galleys and discovered a far off civilization. Additionally this happened on his watch:
The Roman war raged on with very poor leader luck. However, the Great Library started to produce much knowledge. Eventually the G-man returned and started building an interesting idea called the Hanging Gardens. But the civilization entered the Middle Ages before it was completed.
Not much going on in this thread ........ therefore I decided to give some information, which may stimulate some discussions:
When you go for 20k victory, it is important to do so from the very beginning:
Thus the obvious method is to join workers to your 20k city. Regardless of the fact that these workers cannot improve terrain at other cities and reduce pop in other cities.
And you join workers as soon as they (as citizens) can work improved tiles of the city. Of course, you have to have enough food and happiness (luxuries, lux tax).
Team tao joined 6 workers in the ancient times: 1870BC, 2 in 1725BC, 1475BC, 1225BC, and 230BC reaching pop 12.
This gave us maximum production capacity, which was urgently needed because we got only 1 Great Leader before 300AD.
When you go for 20k victory, it is important to do so from the very beginning:
- found the city as soon as possible (unless you choose to use your capital)
- put every effort possible into your 20k city, neglecting the rest of your civ
Thus the obvious method is to join workers to your 20k city. Regardless of the fact that these workers cannot improve terrain at other cities and reduce pop in other cities.
And you join workers as soon as they (as citizens) can work improved tiles of the city. Of course, you have to have enough food and happiness (luxuries, lux tax).
Team tao joined 6 workers in the ancient times: 1870BC, 2 in 1725BC, 1475BC, 1225BC, and 230BC reaching pop 12.
This gave us maximum production capacity, which was urgently needed because we got only 1 Great Leader before 300AD.
RowAndLive
RAMMING SPEED!
That is assuming the the RNG grants you GLs, of course. We didn't get our first until ~1230AD. 
I feel that we're playing the 20k game very well, but it's hard to be in the running with a prng that is one-sided against you.
I feel that we're playing the 20k game very well, but it's hard to be in the running with a prng that is one-sided against you.
We had the 1st Roman war 1950BC, whereas you started nearly 50 turns later 690BC.RowAndLive said:That is assuming the the RNG grants you GLs, of course. We didn't get our first until ~1230AD.
I feel that we're playing the 20k game very well, but it's hard to be in the running with a prng that is one-sided against you.
For a long time, we did a defensive war with the only intent to fish for Leaders, whereas you moved ahead aggressivly, but of course with less Leader chances.
And we also had 30+ consecutive elite wins in this game without a Leader.
chunkymonkey
Procrastinator
OK it's been a long time coming but here it is....
-----------------------------------
Team jeffelemmar Ancient Ages Spoiler
Goal
For this game, we are pursuing a 20K victory with our second city Utica. However, we decided that if this wasnt going quite to plan, we would be prepared to go
. This approach would effectively scupper our chances for a UN win, or trading for Modern Age resources for the Space Race. So it was effectively 20K, Conquest, or bust. Since this is 5CC, and we are commercial, we felt RCP was not absolutely essential but if the opportunity turned up we would go for it.
Initial Moves
The spot for Carthage would be fairly important, so we moved our worker onto the mountain to get a better view. There was nothing amazing there, so Carthage was settled on the spot. Research set to The Wheel on maximum, which we eventually learn in 2950BC. Hopefully our neighbours would not possess this tech, and we would be able to trade it around. Spend a few turns scouting the immediate area for a good 20K spot, and then send warriors south to find a friend. In 2900BC we produce our first settler and after much deliberation, send it northeast to grab the spot between the BGs, whale and hills. We also considered spots to the south, either near the wool, or the sheep, but we didnt fancy the corruption problems or defendability issue. We eventually settle at these points, but we needed to get our 20K underway ASAP. In 2850BC we meet our first rival Rome. Not exactly the Ancient Age neighbour that everyone wants! In 2710BC we settle our designated 20K city Utica.
Consolidation of Power
In 2550BC we discover CB, and start research on Writing. In 2470BC, we pop another settler from Carthage and send it towards the wool in the south. We hoped Rome wouldnt beat us. In 2350BC, Rome learns IW which is a bit annoying, we need to get a move on with our research. Trade CB to Rome for Pottery. Rome builds a city by the wool area we were hoping to nab
, so we divert settler to the sheep instead and build Leptis Magna in 2150BC. In 1500BC, we settle Theveste to the northwest of Carthage next to the hills. This will allow us to keep an eye and have access to the ivory there. In 1700BC we learn Writing and start research on Mapmaking as a crutch if our Colossus build in Utica gets beaten, and so we can start getting contacts. In 1350BC, we build Hippo on the hills to the south of Carthage for its strategic positioning and production potential for the up and coming war on Rome.
Keeping ahead of the game
Disaster strikes. In 1300BC, the Vikings build Colossus
, so we quickly change plans and start preparations for building of the Oracle. In 1225BC we research MapMaking, and start building galleys. In 1075BC we research Mysticism. In 1025BC we meet our first overseas friend. Theyre not really any better than Rome! In 975BC meet another, slightly friendlier AI sharing the continent to the northwest. After researching Literature, we decide that a Republic govt. would be much more suited to our long term plans, so we follow this path. Build the Oracle in 950BC and start work on the Great Library.
The Carthage-Roman War of 730BC 50BC
We decided that since Rome owned the only source of iron, this would be the time to strike and strike decisively. Rome is still building the pyramids, so their Legion production would be minimal. If we didnt take this opportunity now, we figured we would probably be
for the rest of the game. In 710BC we raze the town of Pompeii. A stack of mercenaries and archers head towards the iron hill in an attempt to pillage it, with the slim hope that our GA does not get triggered. In 610BC we pillage their iron. At this point, we have only seen one legion, which has been fortified in Rome for the entire time our pillaging stack moved towards the Roman iron. In 550BC, we raze the town of Virconium. In 290BC we eventually raze Rome 
. In 230BC we settle Leptis Minor two squares southwest of the ruins of Rome allowing us quick access to iron and wool, but must disband Hippo to maintain 5 cities. In 190BC, we raze Antium. In 170BC, we raze Veii. In 110BC we build the Great Library. In 90BC, we get a Great Leader attacking an archer 
. Send him towards Utica in preparation for rushing the FP. In 70BC we learn Maths and HBR from the Glib. In 50BC, we give Caesar peace and he gives us all his cities and Construction. We then rush the FP with our leader before giving cities back to Caesar.
Development of the Carthaginian empire
In 30BC we settle Sabratha next to the wool south of Carthage and disband Leptis Magna as a result. A foreign power has started landing settlers on our shores annoying. One particular warmonger demands we give him literature. We decline, so he declares war. In 110AD we learn Republic and get a 3 turn anarchy period. We then beeline towards Monarchy in an attempt to grab the Hanging gardens. In 330AD we start accumulating more contacts and by 410AD we know everybody. In 360AD we learn Currency from the GLib and enter the Middle Ages, where we also learn Engineering and Feudalism. In 370AD we declare war on the Romans again for leader faming purposes, but to no avail, theyre not producing enough fodder for our bloodthirsty warriors . We learn Monarchy and in 420AD Utica builds the Hanging Gardens. The wonder cascade falls to a couple of civs who know Feudalism.
Utica
We chose to have 20K in Utica rather than Carthage due to the power of the palace pre-build. Our main objectives for successfully completing 20K are to:
1. Keep the tech pace extremely slow - there are a few scientific civs out there somewhere, so this might be tricky. However, we have been fairly successful with us and AI simultaneously entering MA around 350AD. The Middle Ages wonder cascade is absolutely horrible, and we hope to be under control of at least 4 out of 5 wonders.
2. Perfectly executing prebuilds for wonders.
3. Get our GA to start at the perfect time. We have been lucky in managing to suspend the start of our GA for this long.
4. Also, a few leaders here and there might be nice
.
Improvement build dates for Utica in the Ancient Ages:
Built a temple in 1870BC.
Built The Oracle in 950BC.
Built The Great Library in 110BC.
Rushed a Forbidden Palace with our MGL in 50BC.
Built a library in 70AD.
Built a colosseum in 290AD.
Built the Hanging Gardens in 420AD.
-----------------------------------
Team jeffelemmar Ancient Ages Spoiler
Goal
For this game, we are pursuing a 20K victory with our second city Utica. However, we decided that if this wasnt going quite to plan, we would be prepared to go
. This approach would effectively scupper our chances for a UN win, or trading for Modern Age resources for the Space Race. So it was effectively 20K, Conquest, or bust. Since this is 5CC, and we are commercial, we felt RCP was not absolutely essential but if the opportunity turned up we would go for it.Initial Moves
The spot for Carthage would be fairly important, so we moved our worker onto the mountain to get a better view. There was nothing amazing there, so Carthage was settled on the spot. Research set to The Wheel on maximum, which we eventually learn in 2950BC. Hopefully our neighbours would not possess this tech, and we would be able to trade it around. Spend a few turns scouting the immediate area for a good 20K spot, and then send warriors south to find a friend. In 2900BC we produce our first settler and after much deliberation, send it northeast to grab the spot between the BGs, whale and hills. We also considered spots to the south, either near the wool, or the sheep, but we didnt fancy the corruption problems or defendability issue. We eventually settle at these points, but we needed to get our 20K underway ASAP. In 2850BC we meet our first rival Rome. Not exactly the Ancient Age neighbour that everyone wants! In 2710BC we settle our designated 20K city Utica.
Consolidation of Power
In 2550BC we discover CB, and start research on Writing. In 2470BC, we pop another settler from Carthage and send it towards the wool in the south. We hoped Rome wouldnt beat us. In 2350BC, Rome learns IW which is a bit annoying, we need to get a move on with our research. Trade CB to Rome for Pottery. Rome builds a city by the wool area we were hoping to nab
, so we divert settler to the sheep instead and build Leptis Magna in 2150BC. In 1500BC, we settle Theveste to the northwest of Carthage next to the hills. This will allow us to keep an eye and have access to the ivory there. In 1700BC we learn Writing and start research on Mapmaking as a crutch if our Colossus build in Utica gets beaten, and so we can start getting contacts. In 1350BC, we build Hippo on the hills to the south of Carthage for its strategic positioning and production potential for the up and coming war on Rome. Keeping ahead of the game
Disaster strikes. In 1300BC, the Vikings build Colossus
, so we quickly change plans and start preparations for building of the Oracle. In 1225BC we research MapMaking, and start building galleys. In 1075BC we research Mysticism. In 1025BC we meet our first overseas friend. Theyre not really any better than Rome! In 975BC meet another, slightly friendlier AI sharing the continent to the northwest. After researching Literature, we decide that a Republic govt. would be much more suited to our long term plans, so we follow this path. Build the Oracle in 950BC and start work on the Great Library.The Carthage-Roman War of 730BC 50BC
We decided that since Rome owned the only source of iron, this would be the time to strike and strike decisively. Rome is still building the pyramids, so their Legion production would be minimal. If we didnt take this opportunity now, we figured we would probably be
for the rest of the game. In 710BC we raze the town of Pompeii. A stack of mercenaries and archers head towards the iron hill in an attempt to pillage it, with the slim hope that our GA does not get triggered. In 610BC we pillage their iron. At this point, we have only seen one legion, which has been fortified in Rome for the entire time our pillaging stack moved towards the Roman iron. In 550BC, we raze the town of Virconium. In 290BC we eventually raze Rome . In 230BC we settle Leptis Minor two squares southwest of the ruins of Rome allowing us quick access to iron and wool, but must disband Hippo to maintain 5 cities. In 190BC, we raze Antium. In 170BC, we raze Veii. In 110BC we build the Great Library. In 90BC, we get a Great Leader attacking an archer . Send him towards Utica in preparation for rushing the FP. In 70BC we learn Maths and HBR from the Glib. In 50BC, we give Caesar peace and he gives us all his cities and Construction. We then rush the FP with our leader before giving cities back to Caesar.Development of the Carthaginian empire
In 30BC we settle Sabratha next to the wool south of Carthage and disband Leptis Magna as a result. A foreign power has started landing settlers on our shores annoying. One particular warmonger demands we give him literature. We decline, so he declares war. In 110AD we learn Republic and get a 3 turn anarchy period. We then beeline towards Monarchy in an attempt to grab the Hanging gardens. In 330AD we start accumulating more contacts and by 410AD we know everybody. In 360AD we learn Currency from the GLib and enter the Middle Ages, where we also learn Engineering and Feudalism. In 370AD we declare war on the Romans again for leader faming purposes, but to no avail, theyre not producing enough fodder for our bloodthirsty warriors . We learn Monarchy and in 420AD Utica builds the Hanging Gardens. The wonder cascade falls to a couple of civs who know Feudalism.
Utica
We chose to have 20K in Utica rather than Carthage due to the power of the palace pre-build. Our main objectives for successfully completing 20K are to:
1. Keep the tech pace extremely slow - there are a few scientific civs out there somewhere, so this might be tricky. However, we have been fairly successful with us and AI simultaneously entering MA around 350AD. The Middle Ages wonder cascade is absolutely horrible, and we hope to be under control of at least 4 out of 5 wonders.
2. Perfectly executing prebuilds for wonders.
3. Get our GA to start at the perfect time. We have been lucky in managing to suspend the start of our GA for this long.
4. Also, a few leaders here and there might be nice
.Improvement build dates for Utica in the Ancient Ages:
Built a temple in 1870BC.
Built The Oracle in 950BC.
Built The Great Library in 110BC.
Rushed a Forbidden Palace with our MGL in 50BC.
Built a library in 70AD.
Built a colosseum in 290AD.
Built the Hanging Gardens in 420AD.
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Gameplay Mechanic Discussion: Ages