SGOTM4 - Team Grayarea

Hallo.
@All. I think we must begin a war as fast as possible :eek: . Rome cities are small. I think Ceasar have no many legions now. But if he'll make a lot we can forget about war and can pray for the peace. I think we must build Spartan Hoplites but not warriors.

Good luck for us
 
Does anyone knows where are Grayarea and Matternich?
Because they did not have written here that they would skip, I suppose that they just need more free time to play Civ3.
So, we will give them one more day (and night) to post here at least. If they will not appear here, then I will download save and play game turns.
 
Grayarea will probably play tonight; I think, he forgot to post a "got it" after he posted the roster yesterday.

I don't know what happened to Matternich.
 
Don't worry, you aren't going to conquer the world with the units we currently have.
Just develop the land and watch what Ceasar is up to; techs, establish embassy(tell how many turns Rome needs to build the Pyramids adn how many shields per turn produces), sell maps when you can, etc...

We also need to have 2 units for MP in every city.
 
Pre-flight

All citizens appear to be working in best config.

IBT

Utica Warrior > Warrior

1450BC (1)

Warrior kills conscript warrior.

IBT

Carthage Warrior > Warrior

1425BC (2)

Warrior kills horseman

IBT

Utica Warrior > Warrior

1400BC (3)

ZZZ

IBT

Carthage Warrior > Warrior

1375BC (4)

Remember to setup embassy with Rome.
Pyramids in 36 turns at 8 shields per turn, size is 4 growth in 3.

IBT

Utica Warrior > Hoplite

1350BC (5)

Warrior kills horseman

1325BC (6)

ZZZ

IBT

Carthage Warrior > Hoplite

1300BC (7)

ZZZ

1275BC (8)

ZZZ

IBT

Utica Hoplite > Hoplite

1250BC (9)

Sent Hoplite towards roman front

IBT

Carthage Hoplite > Hoplite

1225BC (10)

Send Hoplite towards Roman front

No trading was done, I will leave that to the next player.
 
Hi guys- apologies. I Went AWOL simply because my I lost my net connection. I couldn't do anything about until now and hopefully I'm back online for good.
Will post my thoughts on the game soon as I have read all the back posts.
 
Ok. Our team is full again. :)

So, I will play tomorrow at day. Suppose, Alex Top will play his turns next day.
 
Ok have checked most of the posts and had a look at our latest position. I wish I had been able to make a come back on some of the reasons for my city plan and against the city plan we have now. Don’t want to be put a downer on things but the following post is what I would have made before I vanished.

Had to get it out my system so here goes-



1. Diplomatic victory is almost a whole age after sanitation. Space V is one and three quarters after. Cultural also. Are you not planning to stick around for completing the game because you never expected to reach that far? Population past 12 is important in these late stages of the game.

2. Worrying about Rome settling near us is another poor reason. It would be better to sacrifice build time/shields on military to physically block or occupy Rome’s settling potential rather than cramp our few cities. Even if we had to build a warrior for every square it would make more sense. Later we may be at war with Rome anyway.

3. I might be wrong here but isn’t Carthage a seafaring civ which gives a gold bonus on worked sea tiles? Not a major point but in the case of Utica that whale square looks enticingly out of reach especially as its already stealing two tiles from Carthage.
The good thing about sea tiles is that while you don’t have shields until Offshore Platform- which is a hell of allot earlier in this version of the game- you do have a minimum of 2 food every plain tile.
I Can’t help but think about the city that would have had oysters and rocks for 5 easy food. The mountains in the early game would have pushed up the tile count of this city and its gold also good. (Gold is important)

4. Score is based on population numbers. We have limited our maximum pop and so our final score. Population also can add scientists and tax men for greater tech/income- important in later stages.


You have to look at the long term.
Take the city Theiveste in its current position- in Monarchy for instance it will have a maximum of 19 food once fully worked, half that and you have a population of 10 and no more. That's already 2 below max which will affect shield count.
Even with the later food bonuses its never going to grow much beyond 12 and all the mountains will not be able to be worked. And it steals another tile from Carthage. That’s 3 tiles our capital has lost so after it does have its hospital its pop cap is reduced by 3 or 4. Not so important until you consider we only have five cities and every citizen counts.

Under different circumstances I would abandon the cities and resettle them but as it is it looks like we are stuck with them.

Also I know this is a few posts back for you guys but if you have the urge to play extra turns- don’t. One turn over accidentally is ok or even one turn under, but there’s no excuse to play extra simply because you ‘wanted to do something.’
If there’s something major going on, explain it in detail in your write up for the next player to follow. If it’s important I am sure they will.

Why didn’t we go for Pyramids? And why aren’t we prebuilding for Great Library? What about Collosus? Have we decided cultural victory is out?

Ok got all that off my chest.

Other than all that we are not doing too bad. Looks like it shaping up to be an interesting game.

ps. Yes destroy barbs so ivory can be had, ect.
 
To Matternich and all:

I think that in long-run we need to destroy Rome and settle on it's land. May be this is not reliable, but I thought that 2 not good cities (in mountains) can produce military units for war with Rome. And once we capture their capital (or another good cities) they can be disbanded for sure.

As to seafaring civ - we are playing vanilla 1.29f, aren't we? So we are industrious and scientific. But no one is seafaring in this world.
 
Maybe the roster should change, so Matternich could play his first turns.
Matternich said:
Under different circumstances I would abandon the cities and resettle them but as it is it looks like we are stuck with them.
Click to expand...
The Team could decide to re-settle a couple of cities.
Matternich said:
Why didn’t we go for Pyramids? And why aren’t we prebuilding for Great Library? What about Collosus? Have we decided cultural victory is out?
Click to expand...
Who knows? I've never seen a decision on what we're aiming for. I've made proposals, I saw proposals, but I didn't saw a decision.

I was expecting to discuss a lot, BEFORE a player's turn, and AFTER as well, using strong arguments/justifying our acts/positions.

I'll follow the Team's plans, but this game just doesn't go well without a leader; I think, you should decide on which person will take the decisions; where to settle, what to do, pre-builds, etc... Now that Matternich is back, there are 4 possible leaders to choose from - I exclude myself from the leader list.
 
@ Sir Ortin-

The idea of settling on Rome's land is not a good idea. Assumming we massed a large enough army and wiped them out- by the time we could settle there its rate of growth would be far behind any others which have already been settled. Also remember the further away from the capital the more corruption a city will have. In 5CC it's best to settle the 5 cities as quickly as possible so they have the most time to grow. Especially important for cultural victory where buildings gain CPt's the older they become.
Who knows if Rome manages to raze or capture one of our cities we will have to resettle like it or not.

I wasn't sure about the seafaring thing, after all the GOTM installations do strange things- Carthaginians are new to me as a civ as they are not even in Vanilla.

BTW how are you doing with the game nearly finished your turn?

@KAlex
Cultural is perhaps the easiest victory condition to mess up because it relies on wonder building which isn't always easy at the best of times. I would personally go for a Diplomatic but at the same time try keep our options open by actually aiming for all three until one seems the best. Then there's always Conquest.

It's too late to go for Pyramids- maybe Utica can try for it and fold into Collosus if it fails. GLib will alow us to accumulate wealth and forget tech for awhile but if we dont manage it a cultural victory will look less likely as it has good CPT. I say calculate how many turns till LIT and get Rome prebuilding for it or another city onto Palace in preparation.

I dont think we need a team leader as such but someone to summarize and organize everyone ideas would be good.
 
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm4/Grayarea_SG004_BC0975_01.SAV

1225BC (0) - All ok.

1200BC (1) - Theveste built Temple, start on barracks. Utica roduction changed to build a Colossus.
1175BC(2) - Just moving.
1150BC(3) - Carthage built Hoplite, start another.
1125BC(4) - Just moving.
1110BC(5) - Just moving.
1075BC(6) - Carthage built Hoplite, start worker.
1050BC(7) - Carthage built Worker, start Hoplite.
1025BC(8) - Barbs settled at North, killed their Horse with warrior.
1000BC(9) - Researched Literature, started on Math. at max. Hippo built Temple, started on barracks.
1075BC(6) - Carthage built Hoplite, start worker.
975BC(10) - Killed barb horse. Need to rest with our two warriors before pillaging barb village.

We need aqueduck in Utica before we will start there a Great Library. This is why I research Math. at max. Also we can try to trade math. for Map Making or something else. But we should keep the Literature with us.
I also made a wall with our Hoplites at the south so Rome can not pass through it and settle near us. Also this is a point to collect units before war for Iron. unfortunately one Rome warrior went through it when it was not so large, bu I think it will not be a big trouble for us. Just keep eyes on him.
Our capital should continue to produce Hplites and workers.

@Matternich
I proposed to place cities in mountains area because they can contain resources (Iron, Coal, Saltpeter).
 
Well done Sir_ortin. Good that we are pumping out workers to improve those tiles and start building roads to colonize those resources. Rome should mve onto Glib next maybe.

Appreciate the idea about resources though under current conditions- i.e. small island easy to 'grab' and hold onto resources outside of ciy limits with colonies- its not an issue. Dont want to keep harping on about city placement though. Lets make the best of what we have.

The early wall of Hoplites is great but probably better to make use of the mountains to fortify them becuase of the defenssive bonus. Rome has a couple of settlers just itching to move into our territory. They are just going to have to wait until they have ships but by then I hope we will have more 'blocking' troops.

With a few more defensive troops, Rome will find it very hard to breach our defensives even with their Legionaries. Perhaps we should wait until either they declare war on us or until we have Knights before going to war.

Whose go is it?
 
Right now it is AlexTop's turn, next turn is your, Matternich.
 
Roster;

1 KA
2 Gray
3 Sir Ortin - Just played
4 Alex top - Playing next
5 Matternich - Get ready

Question,

Why do we kill the barbs when we can farm them to get elite units?

Is there any good info on pre-building? I am a bit vague on the best practise for this sort of thing.

Can we not disband a city when we take a big Roman city (capital) and move to a better position that way?
 
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