SGOTM4 - Team Smackster

[smackster]

I put our culture dates into AlanH's calculator, this allows you to see what effect adding other wonders will have. Looks like a finish of 1908 right now, adding say Copurnicus in 30 turns, knock about 15 turns off the end date.

Here it is attached.

Note that it wont tell me the date, but I can see it by typing in dates into the target dates section

 

[Wotan]

Found out that I've been using 1.21 on this PC, and when I patched it won't run on conquest CD anymore. Will play around some with it, I know there is a how-to somewhere on these forums...

I guess you have discovered the same problem I found when patching to 1.27f. When the patch first appeared for PTW the game had different copy-protections in US and international editions. Conquests have the same copy-protect for all editions AFAIK so the problem is probably due to the patch you are using, if you have used the international try the US patch (or maybe reinstall using conquests since it shipped with PTW 1.27). I have not bothered to fix it so I have to use my old PTW disc to play the game since it will not accept Conquests disc.

 

[DeceasedHorse]

Preturn: I think about moving the passage blocker (just kidding). Sell Currency to India for 29 gold and 2gpt (all they have).

Turn 1: Pull back damaged units to the north of Rusicade in order to better support the assault on Pasagrade. War Weariness hits Rusicade, forcing me to put the city on a starvation diet. I may let it riot and re-fill the food box, depending on how the level of WW fluctuates. It will take 448 gold, the majority of our treasury, to rush a Cathedral there. Push back the barbs that are starting to pop up on the southern tip of our continent/island. The best offer for Monotheism at the moment is Greece’s 5 gpt and 50 gold. No thanks.

IBT: Brennus tries to extort Monarchy, fails, and runs crying home.

Turn 2: Hasdrubal dropped off. Our forces continue to advance against Pasagrade. The attack will commence next turn. Science to 80%, Education in one turn @ -15 gpt. Hmm, Rusicade is happy again; it looks like what happened last turn was a result of a Persian galley temporarily blockading the city.

Turn 3: Education comes in, start on Music Theory @ 90%, due in four. Swap everything over to Universities. Disperse a barb encampment. Spend 320 gold rushing the University in Utica. Still no money to be had from the AI’s.

Battle for Pasgradae:
Vet horse vs. Vet Pike-Pike redlined, horse killed.
Vet horse vs. Reg pike-Pike redlined, then kills the horse.
Elite Numed vs. Vet MDI-Elite Numed killed, MDI redlined but promotes.
Elite MDI vs. Elite MDI-Persian MDI killed.
Vet Horse vs. 1/3 Pike-Horse wins and promotes
Vet Horse vs. ¼ pike, horse loses 4 straight hp and dies.
Vet Horse vs. elite pike: Does one damage and dies.
Vet Horse vs. elite pike: does no damage and dies
Vet MDI vs. Pike: Finally kill the bastard, promote to elite.

Some less-than-stellar tactics on my part. Raze Pasgradae and capture a catapult. Move a Numed to pillage the Persian horses.

Turn 4: Utica finishes a university; set it to pump out a horsemen every turn for a bit. The university increases science enough that I can go down to 80% and still get it within 3. War Weariness hits 37%, but I am able to use scroll-ahead and prevent rioting in Rusicade and Theveste. Sell spices to India for 27 gold and 2 gpt (they finally got some cash). Diplo check with Persia: They will give us 19 gpt and some small change for peace. Pull the trigger. Fire all specialists.

Turn 5: Complete a uni in Carthage, drop science another 10%.

IBT: Babylonians sign the vikings in against use. Barbs wack one of out useless workers down by Sabratha.

Turn 6: Not much.

Turn 7: GA ends. Science dropped down to 10%, Music Theory still in one.

Turn 8: Music Theory comes in, start and finish (very zen) Bachs in Utica. Start on Banking at 90% @ -43 gold. Plan is to grab banking then Astronomy while Utica is otherwise occupied with a palace pre-build. Start Bank pre-builds in three cities; Rusicade still needs a market.

IBT: Bismark tries to extort Monotheism, but backs down.

Turn 9: Finish Bach’s in Utica, reach 63 culture per turn. I am able to drop the lux tax to zero, and still complete the market in Rusicade in five turns if I run it on a food defceit.

Turn 10: Not much.

 

[dmanakho]

Good Good,
Since we build Bach's we need to sell Music Theory around,
When AI's have money they usually so stupid and give all the money they have even when wonder has been already built.

 

[dmanakho]

Ok, what has happened here while i was out??? First time i see such a low activity in the team's thread.

 

[Wotan]

OK, this is my official "I've got it" but I have to think long and hard on this...

 

[dmanakho]

Loaded the save to check...
babylon would give us a peace plus 4GPT and 44 gold in eachange for Mono...
Not sure if it is worth doing, since nobody has monotheism and if we sell it to Babs, we better give it away for free to everybody else, otherwise Babs will sell it themselves.

how come Brennus still doesn't have republic?? Let's gift him republic right away. We need AIs money and with republic Celts have more chances to be useful...

@DH: Why did you move passage blocker galley??? You didn't suppose to move it in any circumstances. If you ask me that was a pretty bad idea as well as getting agreements with India, which we really should not have any agreements with period... India's and Persia's puprose is exclusevly for leader hunting. You probably don't like to chat as much as i do, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE follow the team thread and do your moves accordingly. We are really in a bad situation right now with this deal with Indians... It will take stupid 14 turns before we can do any leader hunt...
I really wish you participated in team discussion a little bit more than you do.

There are also workers mining tiles on our main island outside of city limits...

Well, not sure what are the best strategy right now, it will take too many turns to drop troops on other islands, not sure if it makes sence doing. Guess, we don't have anything better to do than waiting 14 turns and declaring another war and again against persians.. They are much bigger than Indians and we need to keep balances of power...
Persians also have Invention, but won't trade for Mono. Xerxes hasn't started building Leo but I bet he will start soon. We should eliminate his capital next time around.
We have bunch of workers in Rusicade lets transport them to the main island, as soon as Chivalry is invented we shall use those workers for iron resource disconnect trick to do to horses to knights upgrade... It will be much more effective for us than anything else.. Soon we will have every possible structure built in all of our cities and we can switch some of them on gold and some of them producing horsemen. It will be more beneficial than just doing straight knights or cavalry.

Here is what i think.... I don't think there is any team that managed to build every single AA wonder. But i am positive that there will be a team to build every single MA wonder and it will more than likely be a winning team. Although Leo gives only 2 cultural points we still should pursue it if we can get a spare leader (and only after all those high culture wonders). (that's why it was such a mistake to have all those deals withs India). and also guys lets keep in mind that from now until modern ages (research lab) we won't have no more regular buildings with culture, but wonders only. From now on it's a pure wonder race.

@Wotan, I am sure you won't but please don't forget to block the passage again.

And please please please, participate in the discussions that makes this game so much fun.
We need to discuss what we are going after Astronomy, I suggest we do Navigation, we should be able to get those much needed extra luxuries from tradings.
Then we really ought to think between Sheakspears and Newtons, both giving us a lot of culture... Also, Copernicus and Newtons in Utica will provide us with a nice boost of science.

As for Industrial ages... I have few ideas but lets talk about it when we get a little close.

 

[smackster]

We certainly should go for Astronomy->Navigation next, for both trading and waring against those Civs. Free Artistry is just too far away right now.

DeceasedHorse,

can you please, please, please put years into your turn log. Have you ever tried to go back and work out what is going on in a game where players don't do that. I just did it recently and had to spend time counting back turns to work out dates from your turns.

I'm looking forward to your explanation of why Passage Blocker did get moved, certainly after your little joke about doing it.

 

[Wotan]

OK guys, here goes. First of all it was not any fun at all to try to pick through all bad decisions made during "ten turns that shocked the team". DH what is going on???? You do not communicate with the team about the game in progress and apparently you do not read the thread (if you did none of the mistakes would have been necessary).

Turn log

0 – 550AD
Some MMing, moved 10 workers to a forest near Rusicade to chop it. Will hurry the Marketplace by 1 turn.

1 – 560AD
Theveste builds Temple, Cathedral started. Dispersed a Barb.Camp.Dispersed a Barb.Camp.

2 – 570AD
Carthage builds Marketplace, Numidian Mercenary started. Leptis Magna builds Settler, starts Worker. Delhi raised.


3 – 580AD
We research Banking, next Astronomy (5turns). Rusicade builds Marketplace, Cathedral started.

4 – 590AD
Carthage builds Cathedral, Bank started. Peace with Vikings, They got Engineering for 33 gold in the deal. Peace with Babylon including Theology for 58 gold and 20 gpt. Sold Monotheism for 53 gold to Greece.

5 – 600AD
Sabarath builds Cathedral, Colosseum started.

IBT: Ottomans demand Monotheism, I decline their “offer”. Greece demands Theology, I reject and they DoW.

6 – 610AD
Nada

7 – 620AD
Nada

8 – 630AD
EDIT: Astronomy -> Navigation

9 – 640AD
Nada

10 – 650AD
Rusicade builds Cathedral, Colosseum started. Two forests chopped for 20 shields twords the colosseum. Sold Monotheism to Ottomans for 13 gold and 4 gpt.

After action report:
A peaceful 10 turns with nothing really eventful happening thanks to DH’s gpt deals with India. No Leader farming, just building infrastructure and preparing for Dman’s opportunity to DoW in 4 turns. I agree this DoW should be on Persia since they are the stronger of the two.

Another mine is being built on a mountain near Utica, ready next turn. If you move a citizen from a grassland tile to a mountain with 1 spt you will notice that it will already at 1 extra spt cut 1 turn off the completion date of the GW. That means that the extra shields needed for completion in 8 turns (now 9) is between 1 and 8. I have switched the citizen to the mountain now and please check it each turn for when it can be returned to the grassland since we lose 3 fpt when working another mountain. The mine will produce next turn since it finishes then.

Only activity I could have some fun with was to plant/chop forests around Rusicade to hurry the builds a bit. Next steps if Dman should decide to follow it is to add two more chops to Rusicade. Step by step, do it like this:
1. Mine Lambs.
2. Chop forest finished next to Rusicade
3. Plant forest in plains as indicated on map and chop
4. This will add 20 shields to Rusicade = 1 turn’s production
5. All tiles with a red/white ring has been used for this already.

We have Caravel tech now but the economy is in a bad shape so please do not upgrade yet. We will probably never need to use the connect/disconnect exploit in this game since gold will probably be a rare commodity. Just to upgrade the HMs we have now is a major endeavour. Also in this matter my thoughts goes to DH and his phenomenal ability to work against the team when rushing the University in Utica for 320 gold. MMing is done to generate max amount of beakers now.

Next on research: PP, Democracy, FA (my vote on this order)

Firaxis: 505
Culture: 3004 (63/turn)
No attacks!!!!!

 

[dmanakho]

Ok, finally i will get a chance to fight a little...

One gray area - research path.
Let's make a final decision: do we go directly to PP-Dem.-FA or research navigation 1st (Magellan's) and then move to the path towards FA with Sheakspeare's.

 

[Wotan]

Oops! Sorry about that but a line was missing in the turn report. Turn 8 Astronomy -> Navigation. You have 3 turns of Navigation research left.

And your suggestion to gift Republic to Celts. Again sorry about that but I totally forgot about it in my "intense" game... Gift it to them in your turns...

 

[smackster]

Get Navigation first, as we can trade some more, and make our way to fight somebody else if we want, although the easier picking on that Island are better. I don't think its that far going east however.

How much military do we have on the Island now? Can we cut Persias Iron.

smackster

 

[Wotan]

I would hold off going to another theater until we have upgraded to Knights. Else it will be very cumbersome to upgrade our Horsemen when it is time to do it.

I did not build any military units, the economy is very weak so adding support costs was just not a good idea in my opinion.

Navigation is ready in 3 turns, my mistake the line about it was missing in my report.

First Iron is visible in the pic above. Going via the Persian city just west of the picture above opens for an attack on the next city (with the second iron) the turn after. I guess it would be possible to have a horseman move ontop of the second Iron in turn 1 of the new war with Persia after taking the city mentioned above.

EDIT: CivAssist estimates finish in 1856. That is 213 turns from now.

 

[smackster]

Yes you are probably right, no need to send what limited forces we have anywhere else, when we do have good enough leader farming on our island. Cutting their iron will just help us and keep them building spears and longbows for the rest of the game

One thing that the team needs to consider for the rest of the game, is not to weaken either Persia or India too much, don't go after anymore cities even. Also we do need to give them periods of rest so that they can build their forces up for us. And don't get them to fight each other, as we don't want them losing units to each other, only to us.

 

[dmanakho]

Yes, we don't want to weaken Persia much, but I still like the idea of razing Persian capital.
I don't know if we have enough army at the moment though.

 

[smackster]

Yes, we don't want to weaken Persia much, but I still like the idea of razing Persian capital.
I don't know if we have enough army at the moment though.

Any reason why? They pose no threat to us, and if they lose their capital that will effect their ability to build troops.

 

[smackster]

Note: I'm away from this afternoon until Sunday, so might not get onto email. I would like to play my turns and will do as they come up on Sunday.

 

[dmanakho]

Here is my "I got it"..
I am planning to play tonight.
If you have any suggestions you still have time.

 

[dmanakho]

I hope i did okay this time and here is my turn log:


Pre Turn - Gifted Celts a Republic and they are polite towards us.

T1. 660AD - Workers in Utica finished mine, put it on starvation diet - Copernicus in 7. Theveste cathedral -> bank, changed tiles in Theveste to maximize production output. Carphage bank - horseman, checked the troops readiness for the upcoming war.

T2. 670AD - Science down to 40% navigation in 2 turns; +66GPT with 85 in treasury. Workers are doing MMg near Rusicade.

T3. 680 AD - one forest tile previously planted has been chopped near Rusicade; irrigating it again.

T4. 690 AD - Navigation is invented; PP in 4 turns at 80% science -15GPT. Ottomans and Persians are building Leo's...
Everyone can trade with us now... All nations are leveled in research and everybody seemed to get Invention, but luck education.

Trade Agreements:
Traded Spices and wool with Babylon in exchange of incense, world map and 12 gold. Gave Bismarck Monotheism for dyes world map and 28 gold.
Guess what happened - Persian settler pair entered our territory and after I asked them to leave they declared a war on us. Mad Xerxes. Catapult bombards pikeman, elite MD attacks and Hamilcar raises!!!! Hip Hop Hurray!!!! Sending Hamilcar home to rush next wonder what ever it will be...

IBT Persian MD attacks our elite horse, elite horse dies 
Persian archer vs. vet horse -> archer dies.
WLTKD is celebrated in all of our cities.

T5. 700 AD - Horses attack and raze Tyrane, no losses, 2 slaves captured.
Our vet Horse attacks 2hp Persian MD -> horse dies MD is promoted
Our vet horse attacks same MD -> MD dies this time, horse redlined.
Vet horse attacks vet Pers MD -> horse redlines retreats.
Vet horse attacks 2hp pers MD -> MD dies.
Susa will be attacked next turn.

T6, 710 AD Rusicade produces Bank. Switches to horse.
Susa siege:
Our MD attacks vet pikeman, wins and promoted;
Our MD attacks reg pikeman and wins;
Our MD attacks MD wins;
Our MD attacks Longbow wins
Susa is raised, we captured 6 slaves.
Horse attacks MD wins and settler is enslaved
Science down to 70%. PP in 2 turns
Hamilcar is delivered to Utica. Copernicus in 2 turns.
Rusicade finished bank -> Horseman

IBT Pers. elite MD attacks vet NM, we lose.

T7. 720 vet Archer attacks 1hp elite MD we win. All roads to Persepolis are cut. Although I didn't get to the Persia's second iron yet, hopefully Persepolis has no access to it...
I don't have enough troops to support more intensive campaign and RNG takes it toll.
Sponge Bob attacks reg MD Sponge Bob wins.
I am taking wounded troops back to Rusicade to heal.
Okay, I didn't want to sell education before to broken AIs for invention + nothing in gold. Now I notice Germans have invention and willing to trade... They give Invention and 10 gold in exchange for Theology and ivory... Sounded like a good deal at a time...
Copernicus is ready in 1 turn.

T8 730 AD Copernicus is built, switch and rush Magellan’s. PP is researched...
Wow..., it will take 8 turns to research democracy with -1Gpt, can't do any more than that, our treasury is low.

Now when we have PP we can sell communications. As we previously thought Persians and Indians are not known to the rest of the gang. Germans and Celts also don't know about each other...
I am not trading at the moment since AIs are far away from researching navigation and frankly they won't give us much in return. I'd wait until our luxury trades expire and then trade communications in exchange for luxuries.
Xerxes founded new city of Samaria, I am planning to raze it next turn and start staging attack on a city with second iron. Upgraded one galley to caravel

T9 740 AD. Magellan’s is completed in Utica, switched to Leo (could be switched to whatever is next of course).
Sabratha finished bank -> horse.
Vet Horse attacks pers vet pike, pike dies, and settler is enslaved.
Vet horse attacks reg pike in Samara, horse dies pike promoted with full life.
Vet horse attack vet pike -> pike dies.
Vet horse attacks reg pike -> horse dies pike redlined.
3 hp elite MD attacks 1hp pike -> pike dies.
4horsemen moved on top of Persia’s iron in Antioch.
Indian sword with settler appears next to Rusicade borders.
Persian pike appeared within Rusicade southern border will deal with him next turn. Upgraded one more galley.
Upgraded elite leader generated archer to Longbow.

T10 750AD Theveste finished bank -MD, MMing it a little to maximize gold, Rusicade MD->MD
Arrghh, Indians built new city of Hyderabad shrinking Rusicade cultural border.
Attacking Antioch:
Our vet horse vs. vet pike -> pike dies horse promoted to elite
Our vet horse vs. reg pike -> pike dies.
Antioch is razed, Iron is pillaged

Island map:

Persia is down to 6 cities, India has grown to 5.... If we make peace with Persia now they give 67 gold and 44 GPT and we can start picking at Gandhi. I don’t think Persian’s have much troops left and Persepolis is building Leo so it is no use for the troop generating purposes.

Ottomans and Germans have money for GPT deals as well; I will leave this decision to the next player

We have 3653 culture in Utica and 70 per turn. Estimated win day according to CIv Assist in 1820BC.
As Always: WE NEED MORE LEADERS!!!!

Democracy is in 6 turns, 124 Gold and +10GPT in treasury. If we make a peace with Xerxes we can bump science slider a little.

Sabratha tiles are set to produce max gold, so no surprises when you see some shield generating tiles are not in use.
Same is true for the Theveste and Rusicade.
I wasn't exactly sure what to do with workers in our main continent...
I choped one forest outside of Theveste city limits, but then didn't do anything else with them for the rest of my turns.


Save is here

 

[Wotan]

Well played!!! Havn't looked at the save yet but taking the deal with Persia for gold seems to be a good deal. Then take a turn of peace to reduce WW (Are we still at war with Greece?) and attack India for some leader farming.

EDIT: have had a look at the save now and just a couple of small suggestions. Theveste MM it to produce 15 spt and change build to Horseman. Rusicade: MM it to produce 20 spt (now19) by moving a citizen from an irrigated Plains to the mined plains w. furs.

Also, we are still at war with Greece, make peace with them for theology and their gold. Make peace with Persia for the deal suggested by Dman and we can have Democracy sooner. Then shift attention to India for a while.