SGOTM4 - Team Smackster

[dmanakho]

Democracy???
It might not be a good idea... we will only loose 4+ turns of not having culture added to the box....
at least we should put it to the team vote first and i hope you have not done it quite yet.
WW will become an issue indeed, the only way to win this game - generate leaders, that means to stay at war more or less permanently. WW is nothing now because we are republic and with republic and enough lux. we can keep fighting indefinetely, this trick won't work with democracy, plus our cities have lots of foreigners, that will be a real killer when we switch to democracy.

I am afraid, I don't really see how democracy can help us here
Even if you make peace it takes 20 turns of peace for WW to dissolve. We can not have such long gaps without fighting and in future we will have to fight whether we want it or not, simply because AIs will try to land on our island and then we will either have to fight or put a slave on every shore square.

 

[smackster]

I'm only concerned that we get to a point where we have no more culture buildings to build and leaders available, but that is probably silly. I waited and the deciding factor in addition to your email was that we can get Free Artistry in 5 turns. I can't believe how fast we can research with only 5 cities. We can always switch later if we are finding that we are really having a problem with research.

Still playing, taking my sweet time over it.

smackster

 

[smackster]

T0 750AD

Upgrade an archer
Send some workers home
Move some troops into place to attack India next turn

IBT
Persia move their galleys, but I see no other troops

T1 760AD
Find a couple of elites and we move the rest of the troops to the front. Lots of healing troops in Rusicade in case we need some defence against Persia.

Get peace with Greece for their gold and our Theology. Sell India contact to both Germany (4 GPT, and 36 gold) and Ottoman (2 GPT and 13), which gets us close to getting Democracy one turn closer, but I just feel that one turn is not worth 20 turns of peace with Persia
There is no WW, but Rusicade has a few Indians who don't like it now. I feel there is little harm in telling the world about India, there is not much threat there.

Spare workers pushed out into the front lines as bait

IBT
Persia send out a couple of lb's to take our workers, leaving them exposed

T2 770AD
3 Horses go into Kolhapur, two spears are killed, one horse rereats, and an archer is left there.
We pick off the Persian lb and MI, with an elite win (1)

As we have more Galley/Caravels that we need, send one round to the east

IBT
Another Persian LB attacks our LB and we die. India try to sneak a spear/settler by us

T3 780AD
Carthage expands its borders

Elite MI attacks lb and wins (2).

Horse attacks pike in Kolhapur, and kills him. Decide to wait for elites before more attacks

Need just 34 gold to get Democracy next turn. Look at Germany who have only two cities, decide to continue trading with them, always want to think about who we get a deal with, so trade wool for 13 gold and 2 GPT
Ottoman for 11 gold and 4 GPT for wool. Need 4 more. Scrape it together from Celts for India contact

T4 790AD
Democracy comes in and don't switch. We can get Free Artistry in 6 with +12 GPT

Line up 3 elites for attack on Kolhapur next turn.

A quick diplomacy check tells me that nobody has any GPT available.

IBT
We lose a worker to Indian archer, and one to barbs that have appeared on the west coast of Persia/India

T5 800AD
First elite attacks Kolahpur and raises it, second takes out the archer, two elite wins (4)

Take out the barbs on the west and get a horse elite upgrade

India have settled Bengal next to persia

IBT
Persia send out a lb to attack a horse we retreat, he's now in range of our elite horse

T6 810AD
Attack the Persia LB with our elite horse (5)
On the east move 3 elites in place to attack Jaipur next turn

Start to move troops on Tarsus, defended by pikes.

T7 820AD
Our elites attack Jaipur, but find only one defender and have to raize it (6). I think I extended this too far, sending another Caravel round to the east and not sending any more troops to Persia/India as they are both just too weak.

I'm building just horses as I'm expecting Chivalry from the AI anytime, and just ugprading them to Knights is better than building MI, IMHO.

The Caravel arrives on our east coast and we have an MI, NM and a horse that will take the first trip. Scandinavia have probably many spare troops so it will be tough going for a while


T8 830AD
We push three elites outside Sardis to attack that next turn.

Our stack attacks Tarsus, looking for some upgrades. We lose two horses and the two pike defenders are killed, no elite upgrades. Tarsus is raised.

T9 840AD
2 of the elites outside Sardis attack and die, can you belive it. Third attacks stray LB and kills him (7)

CivAssist says that Babylon have a load of cash, and they will give us 89 gold and 21 GPT for Printing Press. I'm afraid I clicked ok and then thought that I should have tried Education, but its too late this will let them trade their map, but then nobody has any cash anyway.

T10 850AD
We research Free Artistry, and find that Babylon have Gunpowder and Ottoman research Chivalry. I was thinking they would never get their. Now we can start to upgrade some of those horses.
I start to research Economics.

I pull back the Caravel from Scandy, might as well send Knights over there.

Two elites are in range of new India city for next turn.

Troops are camping out on iron, all three spots. Awaiting any interoplers. Still don't want peace with anyone.

We do now have WW in Rusicade, assume this is Persia causing it and therefore maybe we should get that peace with them.

Rusicade should be switched to a Knight once we get that

We can generate about 229GPT, which may be worth doing for at least a turn to give us gold for the upgrades. We have 149 in the bank. Leo's is still 18 turns away.

There is a second galley two turns from the east pickup point. A third has just started out, leaving two in the west.

A couple of horses are asleep in Sabratha, they need to be woken and upgraded once we get Chivalry, there are three others there but I stupidly hit space bar on this trying to clean up my turn.
Suggest we fill two Caravels with Knights and pay a visit to Scandanavia.

Utica culture 4356 72/turn

 

[dmanakho]

Alright, I've checked the save...

Persia and India are totall mess, I agree with Smacskter, lets load few caravels and sail to Scandinavian shores.

I strongly recommend for the next player to switch Utica from Leo to Sheakspeare's....
It will be ready in 9 turns and give us 8 culture point vs. Leo in 18 turns and 2 culture. Should be no brainer.... In this game we've got to get culture as early and as much as possible. Let's hope we will get a leader later for Leo's.

As soon as economics is researched we need to research full speed towards Newtons; the sooner we get those 6CPT from newtons the better. After that, I don't think we should research MT at all in this game, but rather head towards steam power->Industrialization->Scientific Methods.

It should be possible to trade Gunpowder and chivalry with AIs...
We should give priority to Gunpowder since it will give us a shortcut towards our main goal -> building Newton's. Babylon won't trade at the moment, but we still have few turns while we resarching economics, and hopefully other AIs will get gunpowder, making this technology cheaper for us to get.

 

[smackster]

Alright, I've checked the save...
Persia and India are totall mess, I agree with Smacskter, lets load few caravels and sail to Scandinavian shores.

Note the Caravels already in place to do this on the east coast.

I strongly recommend for the next player to switch Utica from Leo to Sheakspeare's....
It will be ready in 9 turns and give us 8 culture point vs. Leo in 18 turns and 2 culture. Should be no brainer.... In this game we've got to get culture as early and as much as possible. Let's hope we will get a leader later for Leo's.

Yes should have switched that, I didn't realise that Shakespears was so cheap compared with Leo's so that is good news.

 

[Wotan]

Persia and India are totall mess, I agree with Smacskter, lets load few caravels and sail to Scandinavian shores.

Wait for Horseman->Knight upgrades before sailing since no upgrading will be available on Scandinavian island.

I strongly recommend for the next player to switch Utica from Leo to Sheakspeare's....It will be ready in 9 turns and give us 8 culture point vs. Leo in 18 turns and 2 culture. Should be no brainer.... In this game we've got to get culture as early and as much as possible. Let's hope we will get a leader later for Leo's.

Yes!

It should be possible to trade Gunpowder and chivalry with AIs...
We should give priority to Gunpowder since it will give us a shortcut towards our main goal -> building Newton's. Babylon won't trade at the moment, but we still have few turns while we resarching economics, and hopefully other AIs will get gunpowder, making this technology cheaper for us to get.

I guess waiting for a turn or two will give it to us for a better price, the AI will certainly trade them between themselves soon.

Agree with Dman: No on revolt to Democracy! The major bonus would be speedier Worker actions and that is a non-issue.

Are we not selling WM's? I cannot see any comments re. this in the turn report. The WM's should harvest a few gold each turn. And with our economy every little bit counts....

WW in Rusicade: Probably due to war with India since majority of Rusicade citizens are Indians.

Peace with Persia? If it gives us a financially sound deal.

And finally, Leader farming... Bad luck Smackster, We are probably closing in on "averages" now. 4 leaders so far in the game and only 1 leader in the last 30 turns with probably 20-25 elite attacks.

 

[smackster]

Wait for Horseman->Knight upgrades before sailing since no upgrading will be available on Scandinavian island.

There is one horse on a Caravel that needs to be unloaded on the east coast, I believe one Caravel with three horses going round the cape, the rest on the home continent are waiting to be upgraded.

Are we not selling WM's? I cannot see any comments re. this in the turn report. The WM's should harvest a few gold each turn. And with our economy every little bit counts....

We have not sold it yet at all, the value is high, but when the AI had cash I was able to sell them something else. We need to keep looking and seeing what we can get for it.

WW in Rusicade: Probably due to war with India since majority of Rusicade citizens are Indians.

If you click on the sad citizen in Rusicade it is now 50% "stop agression to our home", and 16% WW. That 16% only came in on the last turn, after I had lost a few troops attacking Persia. Therefore I think the 16% is Persia not India.

Peace with Persia? If it gives us a financially sound deal.

I think the WW decides it and gives them a chance to recover a bit.

 

[dmanakho]

Well, who's playing next anyways???
Did Tarkeel swap his turns or skipped???

EDIT: I would wait on selling WMs until the time when our lux deal expire..
AIs will probably pay with much needed luxuries and maybe even some gold in exchange for WMs.

 

[smackster]

Well, who's playing next anyways???
Did Tarkeel swap his turns or skipped???

EDIT: I would wait on selling WMs for the time when our lux deal expire..
AIs will probably pay with much needed luxuries and maybe even some gold in exchange of WMs.

Yes exactly what I was thinking when I didn't sell them, I think

Tarkeel swapped I thought, so lets give him 24 hours to take it. DeseasedHorse is on deck again.

Roster
Wotan
Dman
Tarkeel (playing)
smackster (just played)
DeseasedHorse (on deck)

 

[Tarkeel]

I'd like to veto another revolution. We don't make culture in the anarchy turns, and more worker speed isn't worth it imho.

Edit: Hehe, forgot to view the next page

 

[smackster]

I'd like to veto another revolution. We don't make culture in the anarchy turns, and more worker speed isn't worth it imho.

Edit: Hehe, forgot to view the next page

Yes no revolution in hand. As long as we get techs (and can start wonders) in time for our leaders then there is no reason to go Democracy, and it may well be that we can't justify the loss of culture or production during that time.

I assume that you have the save and are looking at it. The trading for Chivalry/Gunpowder maybe complex so will need some thought.

smackster

 

[Tarkeel]

I'll look at it and play tomorrow...

Also, remember that the only benefit with democracy is faster worker speed, and we have more slaves then we need already.

 

[smackster]

I'll look at it and play tomorrow...

Also, remember that the only benefit with democracy is faster worker speed, and we have more slaves then we need already.

We would see lower corruption in our two outlying cities, but I'm sure its nowhere near enough to justify the switch. It will be interesting to see once Ainwood gets the corruption section sorted out in CivAssist

 

[dmanakho]

Actually, I am quite suprised to see how low the corruption is.

We will have factories and rails in no time and I reckon we will be able to build units in the same number of turns whether we are in democracy or republic due to the shields waste.

 

[dmanakho]

I've been thinking....

Just in case Tarkeel will get us a leader and i hope he will...
I have two suggestions to discuss:
1. manually build Sheakspeare's and once it's built rush Leos with leader.
2. Create an army, win a battle, manually build sheakspeare's, build Heroic Epic, forget about Leo's unless another leader is born...

I fancy the second suggestion. I think it's time for us to get Heroic Epic... We will have plenty of turns between now and the time we can start bulding Newtons so we can squees HE between. And frankly I would not miss Leo much, HE gives us more culture.

What do you guys think?

EDIT:
@Tarkeel: Move citizen in Utica from plains to mountain tile, it will shave one turn on ST. Remember to get us gunpowder , scrap that archer garrisoning in Utica somewhere else, he is no use for us.

 

[DeceasedHorse]

WOTAN: I think you misunderstood me. I wasn''t saying that the demands on my time are too much, only that I am still getting used to them, that is all. I agree that my performance has not been acceptable. And in regards to war-making, I understand. I remember when I thought that taking an infantry-defended city before tanks was all but impossible, and now I do it all the time.

 

[dmanakho]

Very impressive guys!!!
My congratulations to Smackster for the COTM4 award in fastest conquest
and to Wotan for the very high score....
and I couldn't do any better than mediocre finish that placed me in 45th roster position.

 

[smackster]

I like Leo's as it will make it easier for us cut the iron, build horses, hook up iron, upgrade. Which eventually should result in more leaders, however I do like the idea of getting the Heroic Epic too, which in itself will result in more leaders.

 

[Wotan]

I am not sure the connect/disconnect trick will be any help in this game. We will probably be rather low on gold if we are to keep up the research throughout the game.

 

[smackster]

Great results with 2 in the top 10 and 3 in the top 50. I thought I had a chance of an award in this one, but kept quiet lest somebody else got there first. I can see my score suffered a bit as I made very little attempt to fill the land space.