SGOTM5 - Xteam

[DJMGator13]

@Alan - you may need to make peace with evryone before trying to sign the MPP.

@Mistfit - Sorry to hear you won't be playing the next one. Hopefully it's only a temporary absence.

 

[AlanH]

The decision had been made final. I will not be participaring in the next SGOTM. Thanks.

I hope it's not something we said Hope to see you again soon. Thanks for the avatars - I'll brush the snow off mine soon, as the grass seems to be growing outside, and the birds are twittering like it's spring or something.

We have three new team members for the next one, Gyathaar, WillowBrook and Tomoyo. Welcome aboard, we look forward to learning all about peaceful cultural expansion from you. We need all the help we can get in that department.

 

[Mistfit]

No it's definitely not because of you guys. I really enjoy playing with you all. I'm just getting real busy IRL. I will be back eventually. And I will lurk incessently as per usual.

 

[leif erikson]

No it's definitely not because of you guys. I really enjoy playing with you all. I'm just getting real busy IRL. I will be back eventually. And I will lurk incessently as per usual.

I'll miss you, Mistfit and look forward to your delurks!!

Welcome to our new teamates. May your cultural insights enlighten us!!

EDIT - Can't spell!!

 

[AlanH]

I've reviewed the options for buying Radio, assuming we want to use gpt rather than lump sum:

1. France wants 154 gpt.

2. Iroquois wants 95 gpt + gems + dyes

3. We have a deal giving France gems + dyes + 12 gpt for two more turns.

It seems to me we should wait 2 more turns then do the trade. France will value gems and dyes higher than the Iroquois do because they are bigger, so I think we should get he best gpt from them when we renew that deal. The only hazard in waiting is that someone else may get Rocketry and reduce its value.

Thoughts?

 

[Mistfit]

I'm confused (thickheaded). Explain to me again why we are trading with the French? Aren't we planning a war very soon with them? Is it that we can get the tech and then almost immediately break the deal because we have no rep to speak of as is and don't really care.

 

[leif erikson]

I'm confused (thickheaded). Explain to me again why we are trading with the French? Aren't we planning a war very soon with them? Is it that we can get the tech and then almost immediately break the deal because we have no rep to speak of as is and don't really care.

I would say you hit the nail on the head!! I think Alan is trying to preserve as much GPT as he can for the purpose of rushing units to invade France with. Whatever option provides the least GPT payout is probably the best. imho, we will not be in a position to invade for 12 to 15 turns and have to pay the GPT deal for at least that long.

The only other consideration is if the GPT deal with the Iroquois will somehow provide for better relations and make the MPP and ROP deals easier to obtain. I think Gator may be right about making peace before they will accept an MPP. The English will talk, but their cities will flip back to them. If we make peace, we should consider abandoning them. The Aztecs, iirc, are not ready to talk yet, so 2 turns may improve that, along with taking a couple of their western towns. There should be a couple of Cossacks over there facing Spears, iirc.

@Alan - 95 GPT for 20 turns is less than 154 GPT for 14 turns, so you could take the Iroquois deal if you think they will have Rocketry. However, there is no knowing whether the Iroquois have Rocketry right now. 2 turns is a reasonable delay, imho, to try and get a better deal. However, you can usually bet that I'll be wrong about such things.

 

[DJMGator13]

@Mistfit - yes

@Alan - have IRQ and JPN had enough time to research it on their own? Does leif's turnlog indicate it? They were at tech parity when I played only because I gifted them techs. It doesn't matter if FRA has Rocketry except it might allow us to get a ROP. I think we could probably wait out the 2 turns.

Or we could do the deal now and see if we can use the luxes we were trading with FRA to acquire another tech from FRA before declaring on them.

EDIT: crossed with leif

 

[leif erikson]

@Alan - have IRQ and JPN had enough time to research it on their own? Does leif's turnlog indicate it? They were at tech parity when I played only because I gifted them techs. It doesn't matter if FRA has Rocketry except it might allow us to get a ROP. I think we could probably wait out the 2 turns.

Or we could do the deal now and see if we can use the luxes we were trading with FRA to acquire another tech from FRA before declaring on them.

Amphibious War popped up in the last turn or so. I don't think that the Iroq or Japan have techs in the MA, but I don't know this for sure. I just checked thr 1770 save with CRpMapStat and Amphibious War is not listed as available. In the 1772 save, Amphibious War is listed under France, Iroq. and Japan. I don't know who discovered it, but I am quite sure it wasn't France as they already had Computers (Mech Inf) and Fission (UN and Manhattan Proj).

 

[AlanH]

@Mistfit: Yes. Gator came up with that part of the plan - buy Radio to get to the Modern Age and use our free tech to buy MPPs with everyone and maybe RoP with France. Then go after France to kill the UN and do them as much damage as possible. If we have to buy it from France and then welch on the deal, so be it.

I've been contemplating how to buy Radio from the lowest bidder, as we are going up against MI with Tanks and that can be costly (16 attack vs 18 defence, no retreat), so we need as much cash as possible.

 

[DJMGator13]

I think I'd do the IRQ deal. I doubt we are going to be able to get the ROP with FRA since they are already several techs into the MA. Instead of abandoning some of our high flip cities could/should we gift them to FRA to create some nuisance issues and allow some of our partners in the war a free FRA city to attack, which would guarantee FRA would not win a UN vote if we aren't sucessful in a direct attack.

Have fun and down with France and the UN (like that's not been said in America before )

 

[Keath]

Hello XTeam:

I have been lurking your games for some time now and have learned a lot. I was hoping to post a GOTM win before throwing my hat into a SGOTM but last week I suffered a hard drive meltdown and lost all my games including the in progress GOTM_39.

I realize your team has already filled the vacancies for SGOTM_6 but if there is more team juggling I would be delighted to become a member of the XTeam. If not, I will be on another team and I will miss your excellent posts.

Your team sets a high standard for cooperation and creative play and wherever I end up I will try to keep up with the 'have fun and learn' approach.

Best of luck with FRA.

Keath

 

[AlanH]

Sorry to hear about your meltdown. Was that on a Mac? No backups?

Thanks for your kind words. Our cooperation and creative play don't seem to be doing us much good in the awards races, but we do have fun . As you say, we have a full house right now, but we'll bear you in mind for when I have my next nervous breakdown or Gator decides he wants to relive his 2004 hurricane experiences.

France awaits. I didn't get to her last night, and I'm going out to a show tonight, so time is pressing. I hope my colleagues will be patient with me.

 

[DJMGator13]

France awaits. I didn't get to her last night, and I'm going out to a show tonight, so time is pressing. I hope my colleagues will be patient with me.

More nervous than impatient. Will our game end in less than 16 turns or will we get a chance to watch Russian tanks rule the world.

BTW, will the FRA city building the UN grow in size and hasten the turns to completion?

 

[Keath]

Sorry to hear about your meltdown. Was that on a Mac? No backups?

The drive that failed was not my Mac but my 120 Gig storage drive. I had everything backed up except my Civ folders.

I have now reinstalled Civ and made use of your GOTM install. Very smooth! Good stuff.

It looks like I may be headed for Team Tao according to mad-bax's Roster spreadsheet.

Best of luck to the XTeam!

 

[DJMGator13]

Oops double post

@Keath - Sorry to hear about your harddrive. I wanted to let you know we also have several good teams (and then ours ) playing the Gator01 SG which grew out of Scout's Jumpmaster game where we combined strong players with those wanting to learn more. Even as a stronger player I have still learned alot by playing in these SG and hope to learn more by playing with Gyathaar in SGOTM06. Getting on a team that asks questions and fosters discussion is a great way to learn. My game has improved vastly since I started to play SG's and SGOTM. Good luck and I hope you find a good team to land on for SGOTM06.

 

[Keath]

@Keath - Sorry to hear about your harddrive.

@Gator: The drive was still on warranty so it's inconvenient but not tragic. Thanks for the encouragement. I'm all about learning and having some fun doing it. Winning is good, too, but not at the expense of being intimidated and afraid to make a mistake. That is one of the reasons I like following your posts. You guys have the right attitude towards learning. Realistically, if you never make a mistake, you don't learn much.

 

[leif erikson]

France awaits. I didn't get to her last night, and I'm going out to a show tonight, so time is pressing. I hope my colleagues will be patient with me.

While apprehensive, I await the results with great patience and understanding. This will be a difficult turn set, good luck.

@Keath - Thanks for the kind words. I'm very fortunate that these players put up with me!! I'm sure you'll find a team you'll enjoy and make great contributions to. Good luck to you as well.

 

[AlanH]

I've only reached 1778 AD - 3 more turns. We bought Radio and are in the Modern era. We have Rocketry, so does France. No one else has any modern techs. I've kicked England off the mainland and beaten up the Aztecs and Zulus a bit more. I have 19 tanks assembled in the north east ready to embark for France. We have a lot of artillery, but most of it is in the south.

I can either make peace with everyone, and buy MPPs with as many as possible now, or leave it for a few more turns. The later I leave it the more tanks and stuff we can build under mobilisation, but there's a risk that someone else will research rocketry and our bargaining power will disappear. I think i'll go for peace and MPPs now, but I'm going to sleep on it.

Turn 361 1772 AD Preflight
After discussions we agree to try to buy Radio to get to the Modern Era, then we'll have our free tech as a possible bargaining chip to get MPPs with everyone before attacking France.

Objectives:

1. Buy Radio. We should get Rocketry free.
See who has what techs. If rocketry is sellable then make peace with all opponenents so that we can strike MPP deals ... we hope! Note that when we make peace we lose mobilisation. Try to get RoP with France

2. Build and rush artillery, tanks, explorers, transports in the north west and ship to Kawauka under Iroquois RoP.

3. Take out Lyons before Turn 376 - UN ETA. Note that Lyons is already at max production with 20 working citizens, so this ETA should be OK unless they mine some irrigated plains.

State of our forces:

9 transports - capacity 72 units - about 5 turns from Kawauka. Need to move to troop pickup points now.
23 Tanks, about 5 in the north the rest in the south. We should target to build new for the France campaign as the southern ones will be required for operations against the other civs?
36 artillery. Ditto.

Decide I'll wait two turns before buying Radio to see if I can buy cheaper from France using renewal of the gems/dyes deal.

Run through the city screens to optimise production/gold. There are several cities where production and/or growth will complete in the same time with more gold. Changed some Cossack builds to Tanks. GPT Up from 220 to 241 for this turn.

Transport from Stockholm heads west. Checking for enemy shipping all the way. Unload 2 cossacks in west near unspellable Aztec town (Atzcapotzalco). 1st five tanks of northern task force assemnble in Snagarst in the north east. Transports head that way.

@Newcastle:
Five artillery near York move to outside Warwick and bombard
One redlines a single conscript infantry the rest miss.
Vet Cossack kills infantry, no damage.
Elite cossack kills regular pike, 3/5.
Elite* cossack kills regular pike, 4/5. Takes city, sinks 4 ironclads. 7 resisters, 1 taxman, market.

@Hastings:
Cossack army moves up to stand on rubber tile. Sees regular rifle defending, pop 6. A soft target.
Vet cossack kills reg rifle, 2/4.
Vet cossack kills reg spear, no damage, takes town. 4 resisters, 1 taxman, police station.

Check F4. Liz now has no saltpeter, coal or rubber. She still won't give up Dover - the one tile island, but we're getting close. She has two towns pop 1 and 2 on the SW island, Coventry, the capital, is pop 17. Dover is pop 3, Liverpool nearby is pop 4. It's possible that the capital would jump to Dover if we take Coventry, making another one for the marines. Check flip probabilities, we have six English cities over 2% flip probability, so I think it's probably a good idea to risk Dover becoming the capital in order to reduce the flips after a peace treaty. Move troops towards Coventry, standing on their iron and wool. That doesn't seem to deprive her of either. There's a vet infantry defending on top.

Hit next turn

IBT
China and Zulus sign TE.
Some English naval movements, ironclad bombards rails near Newcastle.
India and Aztecs sign TE.
Delhi, Washington, Boston, Calcutta tank->tank
Shanhai arty->arty
Philly hospital->tank
Elephantine market->tank

Turn 362 1774 AD
England is even less likely to give Dover for Peace now. 'Doubt if ...'. Coventry is down to pop 16.
Pillage iron and wool. Now she doesn't have any.
Move troops up. Arty stack will take another turn to get in range. Should have built a combat settler We have 9 tanks and 5 cossacks in range.

@Atzcapotzalco:
Cossack kills reg spear. Defensive shot from LB. No damage.
Cossack kills reg spear. No damage. LB left defending.

Transports continue NE.

Short rush tank Chicago (76 via Infantry)
Bomber reslines English ironclad near Newcastle.

IBT
Zulus ask for peace. No, we'll wait for our turn, thanks. They land some troops on the western land mass.
English ships move west - one transport + two ironclads, one redlined.
Keltoi ask for territory map swap. Buy a WM swap for 14 gold. Keltoi cavalry move close to El-Amarna.
TE between America and Mongols ends. America signs TE with Aztecs.
Moscow, New York, Madras, Chicago, Thebes tank->tank
Alexandria arty->arty
China builds embassy in Moscow.

Turn 363 1776 AD
@Coventry: Try an attack without arty ...
Vet tank dies vs vet infantry -> 3/4. We'll wait for arty then! Arty moves into attack position.

@Atzcapotzalco (Aztec):
Cossack kills LB->3/4, takes town + 3 resisters, barracks, 2 workers.

@Malinalco (Aztec):
Cossack retreats from 3/3 spear->2/3
Cossack kills 3/3 spear->3/4

France will sell Radio for 51 gpt + 10 gold + map + dyes + gems. OK
We learn Rocketry. France knows Rocketry + Fission + Computers + Space.
Iroquois & Japan have no MA techs and no gpt.

We'll take Coventry next turn to reduce flips, then make peace with all and try for MPPs, amphibious war and French RoP.

IBT
Zulu build Tugela near DaveMcWorgBorg in the west.
America/England sign TE.
English ironclad attacks ironclad and sinks. Ironclad/galleon approach Ta-Tu.
Keltoi/France sign MPP.
Aztec rifles capture Nottingham! I didn't spot that landing
Aztec rifle appears outside Newcastle, retreats 3/5 cossack, 3/4.
Washington, Bombay, Calcutta, Atlanta, San Francisco, Chittagong tank->tank
Ulundi flips to Zulus. No garrison.
Seville bomber->bomber
Lahore, New Orleans arty->arty
Ulaanbaatar riots
Warwick flips. One elite cossack.

Turn 364 1778 AD
@Warwick: vet tank kills reg rifle and recaptures town w 4 resisters.

Outside Newcastle: 5/5* cossack retreats from 3/4 Aztec rifle->2/4. Elite cossack kills him.

@Nottingham:
elite tank kills Aztec rifle, no damage. LB defending.
5/5 cossack kills LB->4/5 takes town, 2 resisters.

@Malinalco (Aztec): 3/4 cossack kills 3/3 spear takes town with barracks. It had a harbour, but no sign now! It was Aztecs only source of coal.

@Coventry:
We have 36 artillery outside:
fail, barracks, 3/4 inf, fail, fail, fail, fail, 3/4 inf, temple, fail, 2/4 inf, coal plant, fail, 2/3 inf, fail, pop 15, fail, pop 14, fail, 2/4 inf, fail, 1/4 inf, 3/4 rifle, fail, fail, fail, 1/3 inf, fail, market, fail, fail, 1/4 inf, library, 1/4 inf, 1/4 rifle, 1/2 rifle
4/4 tank kills 1/3 infantry->5/5
5/5 tank kills 1/4 infantry->4/5
5/5 cossack kills 1/4 infantry->no damage
5/5 cossack kills 1/4 infantry->2/5
4/4 cossack dies vs 1/2 rifle->2/3
4/4 tank kills 2/3 rifle->3/4
4/4 cossack kills 1/4 rifle->1/4 takes Coventry, 12 resisters, 1 taxman, courthouse, bank, 3 workers.

English city is Liverpool - 3 tile island. She will now give Dover for peace.

Destroy Tugela (Zulu) undefended. Kill Zulu cavalry nearby.

@Ulundi (flipped to Zulu): Cossack recaptures town from 3/3 rifle, no damage.

Sell a RoP to Keltoi for 29 gold + WM. This will allow our troops to reach some Aztec cities.

@Calixtlahuaca (Aztec):
Cossack approaches ... there's a pike on top
Cossack retreats vs. vet pike->2/4
Cossack kills 3/3 spear->3/4
Cossack dies vs 3/3 spear->2/3
Cossack retreats from 2/4 pike
Cossack army kills 2/4 pike, no damage.
Cossack kills 2/3 spear, takes city. 5 resisters + 4 taxmen, barracks, market

@Tlaxcala (Aztec):
vet tank kills vet rifle, no damage
vet tank kills vet rifle->3/4
vet tank kills reg pike->3/4 takes city with 9 resisters, 2 taxmen, barracks, granary, market, courthouse, police station, catapult. Upgrade catapult for 120 gold.

Watch this space ...

 

[DJMGator13]

Combat settlers work real nice - I used them in my last round of Bugs 3 to help recreate a road network that we had bombed out of existance.

Looks like we'll have to keep FRA from launching if our UN gambit works. Are we still considered weak to FRA?