SGOTM5 - Xteam
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
Good Progress!! 
Keep up the good work. Sounds like you have things pretty well in hand. Just a little more cooperation from the Iroquois and we might just pull it off.
Keep up the good work. Sounds like you have things pretty well in hand. Just a little more cooperation from the Iroquois and we might just pull it off.
@gator: Yes, we're weak against France. We are currently building at a good rate, and I think I'm going to stay at war with the Aztecs for a couple more turns, to keep mobilised, and to pummel the Aztecs some more to reduce flip chances, and maybe create some cities I can gift to France to set them up as victims when our MPPs (I hope!) cut in.
Note that America has an MPP with France. If we attack France America will declare on us. Probably not a problem as they only have two cities, both within reach of our Moscow troops.
Apologies for the slow progress., but my brain hurts
. My big headaches are:
- Fire power. We'll need more tank production in the north. Hence my feeling I need to stay mobilised.
- Logistics. We need to get as much as possible of the fire power in the south up to the French strike position, particularly our 40+ artillery. That's going to need half a dozen more transports in the south.
- The distance to Lyons from the Iroquois border. The nearest tiles we can currently reach are two tiles from Lyons, and we'd be attacking across a river. Unless we can redline them with artillery we have well under 50% probability of a kill. An artillery stack will take two turns to get within range. I'm assuming we can't sneak attack to gain a freee turn in enemy territory. If we move troops towards Lyons before we declare then I'm sure France will tell us to leave or declare, and we'll auto-eject or get hammered.
Below is a possible plan that gets our troops close enough to Lyons on the first turn of war so that that artillery can hit it (but still across the river), and tanks can attack it on the second turn without crossing a river. I've shown a possible explorer pillage operation to reduce France's ability to hit us in the first inter-turn, but unless I produce and transport a huge number of explorers it will be difficult to cut enough links north and south to be effective. We can put our tank army on top of the stack, but France will no doubt bomb it until it feels safe to attack it.
Any other suggestions or recommendations?
Note that America has an MPP with France. If we attack France America will declare on us. Probably not a problem as they only have two cities, both within reach of our Moscow troops.
Apologies for the slow progress., but my brain hurts
. My big headaches are:- Fire power. We'll need more tank production in the north. Hence my feeling I need to stay mobilised.
- Logistics. We need to get as much as possible of the fire power in the south up to the French strike position, particularly our 40+ artillery. That's going to need half a dozen more transports in the south.
- The distance to Lyons from the Iroquois border. The nearest tiles we can currently reach are two tiles from Lyons, and we'd be attacking across a river. Unless we can redline them with artillery we have well under 50% probability of a kill. An artillery stack will take two turns to get within range. I'm assuming we can't sneak attack to gain a freee turn in enemy territory. If we move troops towards Lyons before we declare then I'm sure France will tell us to leave or declare, and we'll auto-eject or get hammered.
Below is a possible plan that gets our troops close enough to Lyons on the first turn of war so that that artillery can hit it (but still across the river), and tanks can attack it on the second turn without crossing a river. I've shown a possible explorer pillage operation to reduce France's ability to hit us in the first inter-turn, but unless I produce and transport a huge number of explorers it will be difficult to cut enough links north and south to be effective. We can put our tank army on top of the stack, but France will no doubt bomb it until it feels safe to attack it.
Any other suggestions or recommendations?
Attachments
Is it possible to to get an ROP with France? I have a feeling that ROP abuse is in order here, if we can pull it off. Positioning troops will be much easier and we could bring some of the firepower up quickly from the south.
The only other thought I had was if we could "cut" a line through Azteca to allow us to use rails through Japanese and Iroquois lands to get our artillery up to France, we wouldn't need transports and the time to use them. This would require that we can sign an ROP with the Iroq and Japan. We might even get one with Azteca in a peace deal?? With an ROP with France, we could get the artillery where we want them to be most effective.
I've only got the 1772 save to look at, so I don't know what deals are available to you.
The only other thought I had was if we could "cut" a line through Azteca to allow us to use rails through Japanese and Iroquois lands to get our artillery up to France, we wouldn't need transports and the time to use them. This would require that we can sign an ROP with the Iroq and Japan. We might even get one with Azteca in a peace deal?? With an ROP with France, we could get the artillery where we want them to be most effective.
I've only got the 1772 save to look at, so I don't know what deals are available to you.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Is it worth making peace with AZT now and get an ROP with them as well to allow quicker access to FRA? Can't we just remobilize after making peace?
We should keep Brest only long enough to land troops and we should raze all other FRA cities, except for one with oil and a harbor/airport. The flip chance will be too large. We should also try to keep all our forces together on one tile. This will force FRA to either attack our SOD or go thru IRQ and JPN to get to our cities. We need to be able to last thru several turns of intense counter attacks and hope we get some support from the IRQ and JPN. Do we have some troops positioned to claim the FRA & AMR cities near Moscow?
Good luck - I'm hoping there's still a game for you to pass my way.
We should keep Brest only long enough to land troops and we should raze all other FRA cities, except for one with oil and a harbor/airport. The flip chance will be too large. We should also try to keep all our forces together on one tile. This will force FRA to either attack our SOD or go thru IRQ and JPN to get to our cities. We need to be able to last thru several turns of intense counter attacks and hope we get some support from the IRQ and JPN. Do we have some troops positioned to claim the FRA & AMR cities near Moscow?
Good luck - I'm hoping there's still a game for you to pass my way.
- Azteca is not in our way. Keltoi, Japan, Iroquois and France have the land between us and Lyons, and we have RoPs with all but Japan ... and France. See map attached. A French RoP rape would certainly solve a lot of problems, but it's going to be difficult to get a RoP.
- We can't remobilize unless we are at war with someone. Good point though. We'd have to make peace, set up the MPPs with Iroquois and Japan, RoPs with Japan and France if poossible, then declare war on someone. India is probably favorite. We wouldn't actually have to fight them unless they started it. China and the Vikings are other options, but China has a MPP with Iroquois.
- I agree we raze French cities as we dispense with their services, but my focus is totally on Brest and Lyons. Oil is a long way away from there, and if I get to Lyons with any army left I'll hand off to you to solve that problem
- Troop positioning on our home island is the least of my worries. We are building and keeping tanks in Moscow, and maintaining mobilization will help to continue that process.
[EDIT] Opps! Forgot the map. It's a bit small, but there are rails almost all the way, just a tile near our border with Japan needs rails added.
- We can't remobilize unless we are at war with someone. Good point though. We'd have to make peace, set up the MPPs with Iroquois and Japan, RoPs with Japan and France if poossible, then declare war on someone. India is probably favorite. We wouldn't actually have to fight them unless they started it. China and the Vikings are other options, but China has a MPP with Iroquois.
- I agree we raze French cities as we dispense with their services, but my focus is totally on Brest and Lyons. Oil is a long way away from there, and if I get to Lyons with any army left I'll hand off to you to solve that problem
- Troop positioning on our home island is the least of my worries. We are building and keeping tanks in Moscow, and maintaining mobilization will help to continue that process.
[EDIT] Opps! Forgot the map. It's a bit small, but there are rails almost all the way, just a tile near our border with Japan needs rails added.
Attachments
Dunno why I thought RoPs would be difficult. I just sold France RoP for 80 gold+WM and Japan RoP for 9 gold+WM! Once I road and rail one tile between Keltoi and Japan I can get to Lyons in one turn.
@Alan - You do not have to be at war to mobilize. You may mobilize the economy at any time, to demobilize it requires peace. So when you make peace, mobilization ends. The same turn you can then go to the F1 screen and start mobilization immediately. 
OK, I'll try it next turn.
I'm out of practice at mobilization as (a) I seldom get to this stage in the game and (b) it's turned off in GOTMs. I thought you had to be at war.
With those RoPs under my belt I'm feeing a bit more bullish about this now
I do have one other distraction, though. I need to do some mods on the SGOTM system to support C3C. Nothing major, but it all takes time - mostly making sure I don't break anything else in the process
I'm out of practice at mobilization as (a) I seldom get to this stage in the game and (b) it's turned off in GOTMs. I thought you had to be at war.
With those RoPs under my belt I'm feeing a bit more bullish about this now
I do have one other distraction, though. I need to do some mods on the SGOTM system to support C3C. Nothing major, but it all takes time - mostly making sure I don't break anything else in the process
Excellent, Go get 'em!!AlanH said:With those RoPs under my belt I'm feeing a bit more bullish about this now
EDIT
Sometimes you need a breather, doing something else to clear the mind, even if you have to.AlanH said:
Not to worry, we're patient!!
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Sounds like our little plan is coming along nicely (atleast the prefighting portion 
).
).
Mistfit
Deity
Nice progress Alan. Just leave me a few towns to mop up on when your turn is complete With so much going on don't forget to get some fortifications in moscow for the inevatible attack there.
With so much going on don't forget to get some fortifications in moscow for the inevatible attack there.
How much do you want? We have an Infantry, and a few Cossacks, but I'm building tanks for active defence currently. We have 4 now, and will have another two or three by the time we declare. I guess we might be hit by marines. Other than that the only land route to us for France is through America's territory, and our cultural range will mean they have to stop within range of a tank before they reach us.Mistfit said:
Mistfit
Deity
Well ya see, I didn't need to mention it because you all ready have it covered.
Edit: Are we the only ones not done with SGOTM05? I see that MB is aready posting threads for 06.
Edit: Are we the only ones not done with SGOTM05? I see that MB is aready posting threads for 06.
There are at least three teams still playing SGOTM 5.
I'm still playing this, veeerry carefully. Status update:
We are in the final preparations for our hit on Lyons. I have 36 tanks loaded into transports ready to cross to France under RoP, and another 15 in the south. There are 45 artillery available. We are at peace with everyone, and we have MPPs with Iroquois and Japan. So far so good.
The complication is that France has MPPs with Keltoi and America. Keltoi signed theirs in 1776 AD, so it will be in force when we attack Lyons. I therefore have to prepare for counters from Keltoi and America as well as from France. It occurs to me that I could trigger war with France, with our troops in place to attack Lyons, by declaring war on Keltoi with no troops on Keltoi soil, and then attacking them across their border France would then declare on us. I also propose to try to plant a spy during that turn, as we have to deal with the space ship as well. If that fails France will presumably declare? I have no experience of spy planting, hence the question mark.
If France declares on us as a result of our actions while we are on her territory, would this constitute a ROP rape by us? I'm not squeemish about RoP rape, it's just that if we can preserve our ability to do it later, why not? We still have a lot of conquering to do in this game after we've sorted Joan out and RoPs might come in handy.
Here's a montage composed of multiple digital photographs taken by our first explorer during his recent Tour de France by TGV (High Speed Train). You can see him in lots of the shots - he's the one with the white circle round his feet and a silly grin.
I'm still playing this, veeerry carefully
. Status update:We are in the final preparations for our hit on Lyons. I have 36 tanks loaded into transports ready to cross to France under RoP, and another 15 in the south. There are 45 artillery available. We are at peace with everyone, and we have MPPs with Iroquois and Japan. So far so good.
The complication is that France has MPPs with Keltoi and America. Keltoi signed theirs in 1776 AD, so it will be in force when we attack Lyons. I therefore have to prepare for counters from Keltoi and America as well as from France. It occurs to me that I could trigger war with France, with our troops in place to attack Lyons, by declaring war on Keltoi with no troops on Keltoi soil, and then attacking them across their border France would then declare on us. I also propose to try to plant a spy during that turn, as we have to deal with the space ship as well. If that fails France will presumably declare? I have no experience of spy planting, hence the question mark.
If France declares on us as a result of our actions while we are on her territory, would this constitute a ROP rape by us? I'm not squeemish about RoP rape, it's just that if we can preserve our ability to do it later, why not? We still have a lot of conquering to do in this game after we've sorted Joan out and RoPs might come in handy.
Here's a montage composed of multiple digital photographs taken by our first explorer during his recent Tour de France by TGV (High Speed Train). You can see him in lots of the shots - he's the one with the white circle round his feet and a silly grin.
Attachments
All these MPPs sound like WW 1.
Let's see:
We attack France and the Keltoi and Americans declare on us.
France and Kelts counterattack us and Iroq and Japan declare on them.
The Japanese and Kelts are neighbors, iirc, so if we have can fight an active defense in the former English area, perhaps the Japanese will keep the Kelts busy.
What are the Aztecs up to since we roughed them up. They're in the neighborhood as well. Will they sign an MPP? They could have fun with the Kelts too!
This should certainly wear down somne armies, hopefully not ours! It will be interesting to see what happens.
EDIT - On ROP issue, I think it will still be an ROP abuse, although I don't know that for sure.
I took an old save, around 1770, and tried planting a spy. Got caught and France immediately declared war. If they don't and you want them to, just try to plant a second time and they usually will.
Let's see:
We attack France and the Keltoi and Americans declare on us.
France and Kelts counterattack us and Iroq and Japan declare on them.
The Japanese and Kelts are neighbors, iirc, so if we have can fight an active defense in the former English area, perhaps the Japanese will keep the Kelts busy.
What are the Aztecs up to since we roughed them up. They're in the neighborhood as well. Will they sign an MPP? They could have fun with the Kelts too!
This should certainly wear down somne armies, hopefully not ours! It will be interesting to see what happens.
EDIT - On ROP issue, I think it will still be an ROP abuse, although I don't know that for sure.
I took an old save, around 1770, and tried planting a spy. Got caught and France immediately declared war. If they don't and you want them to, just try to plant a second time and they usually will.
I've reduced the size of Azteca, but it might grow back a bit with flips. We've already had one flip to the Vikings in the middle of the southern continent since I made peace with everyone. I was in two minds whether to declare and recover the city, but I decided we need to focus on France, and instead I bought an embassy with Ragnar and sold him a RoP. So we can still reach all parts of the continent, and we'll rape him later.
BTW I got Amphibious Warfare in the wheeing and dealing, so we can build marines whenever we want them. There's oil next to Rheims, which is close to the main Iroquois border, see our explorer's holiday snaps above.
BTW I got Amphibious Warfare in the wheeing and dealing, so we can build marines whenever we want them. There's oil next to Rheims, which is close to the main Iroquois border, see our explorer's holiday snaps above.
At 100 sheilds each (the cost of a Tank??)AlanH said:
, we may have to set a city or two to Marines and rush them when a Transport is available and go after the islands. I'm not sure we can afford to interupt tank production until France is subdued. They'll be some time after that happens, unfortunately... 
Summary: It's now 1800 AD. We have destroyed Lyons, with its UN build, and America. France is building the UN somewhere else and we don't know where. It looks like it converted from a spaceship build. We have a spy in Paris.
We are at war with France, Keltoi, Zulus. We have MA with Aztecs against Keltoi, MPPs with Iroquois, Japan and India. We are average vs France, strong vs everyone else.
Our oil deal has just run out. We can renew with Iroquois and he has Computers for sale.
Turn Log
Turn 364 1778 AD continued
I decide to press on a bit further against Azteca. 12/13 tank army & 3 tanks approach Tenochtitlan, park outside on the wheat. Another tank pillages horses. 4/4 rifle defending.
After deep soul searching and discussions with team:
- We don't need to redeclare to mobilise.
- We *have* to try to get RoP with France.
Sooo ... Sell RoP to France for 80+WM. Sell RoP to Japan for 9+WM, and we'll try to set up the MPPs next turn. Just one more Aztec city
IBT
Various AI movements. Nothing very significant. Single Aztec rifle approaches Tlaxcala.
Madrid, Delhi, Moscow, New York, Madras tank->tank.
Memphis arty->arty
Turn 365 1780 AD 11 turns to UN completion.
Arty in Texcala bombs approaching Aztec vet rifle to 2/4. 4/4 tank kills him and promotes to 5/5.
@Tenochtitlan: Test the situation.
vet tank kills vet rifle->3/4
vet tank kills vet rifle->2/4
vet tank kills vet pike->2/4
vet tank kills reg pike->2/4
3/4 tank blitzes vet LB, promotes to 4/5, takes city, 11 resisters+barracks, granary, market, bank, police station. That removes Aztec iron source.
Capture two Aztec workers to help build the RoP rail/road needed in Japan. There's a samurai standing on it currently. Hope he moves! Once we get past that bottleneck there are multiple rail routes to France through Japan and Iroquois.
Move some tanks and tank army towards next Aztec mainland cities. They only have pikes defending. Too good an opportunity to miss. We'll deal with these before we make peace. One more turn
Short rush some tanks. 60 gold at Bombay via cruise. 40 at San Francisco via coastal fortress. 224 at Elephantine via Infantry. 280 at Alexandria via Infantry. 188 Chittagong via Ironclad. 172 at Heliopolis via Infantry.
IBT
TE between China and Mongols ends. English knight sneaks into Karakorum -undefended!
Orebro, Bangalore, arty->arty
Washington, Bombay, Boston, Heliopolis, Calcutta, Elephantine, Alexandria, Thebes, Chittagong, tank->tank
Darhan barracks->tank
Snagarst market->tank
Tlaxcala flips to Japan with Tank and arty.
Turn 366 1782 AD 10 turns to UN
Japanese samurai still standing on the tile we want to road. So move workers to next one.
Elite Cossack kills English knight->3/5, recaptures Karakorum with 1 resister and a settler->2 workers.
@Teotihuacan:
5/5 tank kills 4/4 pike
4/5 tank kills 3/3 pike
4/4 cossack kills 3/3 pike, takes city. 7 resisters, 1 taxman, barracks, market.
@Swazi:
Cossack kills Impi and takes town. Raze it.
Arty redline English galleon and ironclad.
We have 50 tanks. We're still weak vs France.
Iroquois have Computers.
Peace with Zulus for WM and 3 gold. He has his 1 tile capital.
Peace with Mongols for 40 gold+4gpt+WM+Mandalgovi.
TE between Mongols and Aztecs ends.
Peace with England for WM + Dover - 1 tile island.
Note: Keltoi have MPP with France. It will still be in force when we attack Lyons.
Need to get our troops across Keltoi before we declare, and leave enough behind in the south to defend what we need.
Peace with Aztecs for Jonkoping, Kalmar, WM, 3 gold, 2 workers.
MPP + Amphibious War + WM from Iroquois for Rocketry, WM, furs
MPP with Japan for Rocketry.
We are at peace with all civs, we have MPPs with Japan and Irowuois. Main fly in the ointment is the Keltoi. They have horses and saltpeter, so cavalry, but no motorised transport so no tanks.
Cossack into Mandalgovi, so they can't just walk in. Cossack into Kalmar. Jonkoping is undefended in south west.
Remobilize to keep production going.
IBTAztecs comp[lain about our troops. They auto-eject.
Delhi, Nidaros, New York, Madras, Atlanta, San Francisco, tank->tank
Bjoergvin arty->arty
Palace expands. Coal expires in south. We still have two sources.
Keltoi have built a town near Nottingham.
Pollution at Washington
Turn 367 1784 AD 9 turns to UN
Hurry explorer in Tabriz 32 gold
First phase of road in Japan. Samurai have now moved, so position workers to cover second tile. Move tanks to control critical rail tiles on route towards France through Japan.
Sell WP to India for WM+23
Get MPP+9 gpld from India for Communism
IBT
America and Zulus sign MPP
Wines for coal deal expires with Iroquois! Renew wines for coal+gems+16gpt+WM
Washington, Moscow, Bombay, Calcutta, tank->tank
Toledo arty->arty
Tabriz explorer->explorer
Tzintzuntzen barracks->harbour
Qitaimjorg flips to Vikings. No garrison.
Turn 368 1786 AD 8 turns to UN
The Viking flip has cut our rail links to the eastern end of the southern continent. Buy an embassy with Vikings (28 gold) to see if a RoP is in order. Screenshot attached. Pop 3, 3 rifles, 4 spears, settler in 9 turns. Sell then a RoP for 34 gold+WM.
Complete roads and a rail in Japan. Start more rails.
Build rail in Iroquois Kente near Moscow to improve access to French and American cities.
We now have 60 tanks, 45 arty, 41 cossacks. Still weak vs France.
Explorer checks out opposition. Composite of his explorations around Lyons/Paris at
The nearest oil is near Rheims, close to the Iroquois border.
36 tanks loaded into 6 transports at Snagarst. We have 7 arty and 4 more tanks there now. We can move them to France in one turn, next turn they can deploy via the RoP and the transports can return. So in 3 turns we can have all troops landed and in position to attack. There are 38 more arty in the south, plus 15 tanks. 5 tanks are in Moscow.
The challenge is that when we attack Lyons the Keltoi will declare. We lose our RoP with them. We probably have to gift some English and Aztec cities to Iroquois/Japan to provide a buffer zone between our southern cities and the Keltoi, but we need some active defence against them.
A thought. If I declare on the Keltoi first, then attack them across the border to trigger the MPP with France, with my troops in place in France, does that count as RoP rape? leif thinks it still does.
Looks like France has only one source of rubber, near where we are going to land our troops.
Embassy with Aztecs for 39 gold. England for 28 gold. Neither want to sell MPPs for anything.
IBT
Madrid, Delhi, New York, Madras, tank->tank
York worker->worker
Shanghai, Seattle, Baltimore arty->arty
Seville bomber->bomber
Resistance fading, no flips!
Turn 369 1788 AD 7 turns to UN
Philadelphia is unhappy - draft unhappiness!
Hurry tank Elephantine 216 via infantry.
Hurry infantry Chicago 56 via arty.
Hurry infantry Lahore 80 via arty.
Rush various libraries
Rush tank Darhan 176 via arty
IBT
Waashington, Moscow, Bombay, Memphis, Boston, Philadelphia, Calcutta, Atlanta, Elephantine, San Francisco, Thebes, Chittagong tank->tank
Ta-tu explorer->explorer
Kazan library->tank
Chicago, Lahore infantry->infantry
Giza arty->arty
Coventry flips to Keltoi with cossack.
Tsetserleg Library->barracks
Detroit harbour->barracks
French building Internet, complete Manhatten Project in Rheims
Turn 370 1790 AD 6 turns to UN
76 tanks. We're still weak vs French.
Ship 36 tanks to France. Move arty stack from south into Iroquois.
French ivory deal expires next turn - she gives 16 gpt. Swap WMs
Explorer reserves a sunny spot outside Lyons for our troops, on the right side of the river.
Another explorer goes and leans casually on their rubber plant.
IBT
Delhi, New York, Madras, Darhan tank->tank
Tenochtitlan flips to Aztecs. 1 cossack.
Hastings worker->explorer
Almerikh library->arty
Canterbury, Newcastle worker->worker
New Orleans arty->arty
Santiago transport->transport
Turn 371 1792 AD 5 turns to UN
Load up the six transports again. Some arty and infantry as well as tanks.
We have 80 tanks, 50 arty. Still weak vs France. F4 says we have similar size armies. We are still below our allowed free units (206 vs 242).
IBT
Joan offers to renew trade ivory for 16gpt. Misclick and say yes. Don't think there was much alternative. She won't sell Computers, which is waht we really want, and we'll be at war in a couple of turns anyway, so a better gpt deal is not worth anything.
Washington, Moscow, Bombay, Calcutta tank->tank
Dalandzgad infantry->infantry
Turn 372 1794 AD 4 turns to UN
Land more troops in France. 11 arty, 2 infantry, 22 tanks. Still weak vs France.
Deploy workers in south as human shield to slow down Keltoi attack.
RoP with Iroquois expires next turn. Must renew it before we do anything else. Move our arty stack into France in case of auto-eject in the wrong direction. They've been lurking over the border in Iroquois.
Shaka gives MPP+78+11gpt+WM for Flight+Electronics
Investigate Lyons for 331 gold. 5 MI in residence, UN in 5 turns. It's been delayed by the polluted tile I guess, and my explorer's been standing on it to save our place. Shame
There are 3 arty in Lyons as well, so we'll suffer some hits during our first attacks.
Attempting to size the attack requirement: Assume we deploy 50 arty, we'll maybe hit something with 20 of them. There's a chance we'll get the MI down to 2hp each. Attacking from the right side of the river we'll have better than 40% chance against them. So we should be able to take the city with 20 tanks. Do we set up a second attack force on Rheims? Better investigate Rheims as well, 196 gold. There are 5 MI there as well. We'd need to split arty and tanks into 2 stacks. The problem is the arty, we can't afford to skimp on pulverising Lyons defences. We could maybe divert a little to Rheims and hope to cut it to pop 12, but tanks will only have 16% chance against 4/4 MI in the city. Odds double if we can get them down to 3/4. We'd need maybe 10-15 arty at Rheims, and prayer. So we'll try that. The counter attack will kill us, of course.
IBT
Madrid, Delhi, New York, Boston, Madras, Atlanta, San Francisco tank->tank
Orebro arty->arty
Oslo Factory->tank
Turn 373 1796 AD 4 turns to UN
Renew Iroquois RoP. Can't get anything for it now for some reason.
England seems to have lost Southend. It's now Keltic. Must have flipped.
Rheims is now pop 14.
Set up our troops outside Lyons and Rheims.
@Rheims, on mountain: cossack army, 1 infantry, 30 tanks (5 elite), 14 arty.
@Lyons, on plains: tank army, 2 infantry, 33 vet tanks, 37 arty.
Plant a spy 147 gold. It worked.
France has 125 MI, 6 tanks, 5 cavalry, 2 infantry, 15 bombers, 12 arty, 11 destroyers,10 ironclads, 1 battleship. No marines.
Final planning:
When we take out Lyons and Rheims they'll still have 115 MI. They have 31 cities, with an average of 4 MI per city. Assume 50% have 5 MI each like the ones we've investigated. That accounts for 75. The rest may have 2 or 3 each, plus a few strays. They'll probaby use up to 50 of them to counter-attack leaving the rest to defend their cities. They'll build and draft some as well.
The play sequence is prolly the same as the F10 order and the diplo screen order. If so:
- We attack on our turn and are immediately at war with France, Keltoi and America.
We expect to attack Keltoi positions in the south and to capture our two French target cities. We then have to decide what to do with the cities, depending on our survival rate in the battles. Lyons will be razed. It has SunTzu, but we don't really need it. Our objective is to destroy the UN build. Rheims is worth keeping if possible, for its oil, but I can't see how to hold it. Our troops' survival there depends on staying in the mountains. They would be decimated in the city on the plains, and a flip is highly probable even if the French don't kill us.
- In the interturn Aztecs go first.
- America next, probably won't do anything.
- France next. They will attack us and that will bring Japan and Iroquois into the war against them. France may then choose to go for some easy targets in Iroquois, and the odd isolated Japanese town. There are a couple of cities defended by spears, and some with infantry are reachable. These are easier targets than our armies if they are healthy. Worst case, we'll be hit by up to 27 bombers/arty, then 50 MI. Our two armies can absorb a lot of the pressure, but it depends how effective the bombardment is. Our tanks will already be bruised by our attacks. If the armies and infantry can take out 10-15 MI then our tanks will lose about 40 hp to the rest. That's 10 healthy tanks or 20 damaged ones, so we may survive and hold onto our arty.
- Iroquois have MI, and hopefully they'll hurt some of the French strays.
- Japan may go after France, but I doubt it. Infantry and cavalry against MI?
- Keltoi will counter-attack us, and we'll suffer some losses in the south. Their first attack will cause Japan and Iroquois to declare on them, and maybe that will divert some of Keltoi's firepower onto Japan.
- India will declare on France, then on Keltoi, along with Japan and Iroquois, but I doubt they will be a factor.
- The rest will watch and wonder, and prolly just keep their heads down.
Other intelligence reports:
France has 4 spaceship parts in production, none complete.
Sabotage or a tech steal is not an option. We'd need much more cash.
France appears to have no airports! We won't be able to airlift reinforcements. Should we try to establish a beach head in Riyadh? It would take 3 more turns to get the currently available tanks there and ready to roll. We have 10 tanks now and 6 more next turn. We just have time before the UN build, but it may be dangerous to wait. Our oil deal with Iroquois runs out in 2 turns. I decide to go now.
Continued in next post
We are at war with France, Keltoi, Zulus. We have MA with Aztecs against Keltoi, MPPs with Iroquois, Japan and India. We are average vs France, strong vs everyone else.
Our oil deal has just run out. We can renew with Iroquois and he has Computers for sale.
Turn Log
Turn 364 1778 AD continued
I decide to press on a bit further against Azteca. 12/13 tank army & 3 tanks approach Tenochtitlan, park outside on the wheat. Another tank pillages horses. 4/4 rifle defending.
After deep soul searching and discussions with team:
- We don't need to redeclare to mobilise.
- We *have* to try to get RoP with France.
Sooo ... Sell RoP to France for 80+WM. Sell RoP to Japan for 9+WM, and we'll try to set up the MPPs next turn. Just one more Aztec city
IBT
Various AI movements. Nothing very significant. Single Aztec rifle approaches Tlaxcala.
Madrid, Delhi, Moscow, New York, Madras tank->tank.
Memphis arty->arty
Turn 365 1780 AD 11 turns to UN completion.
Arty in Texcala bombs approaching Aztec vet rifle to 2/4. 4/4 tank kills him and promotes to 5/5.
@Tenochtitlan: Test the situation.
vet tank kills vet rifle->3/4
vet tank kills vet rifle->2/4
vet tank kills vet pike->2/4
vet tank kills reg pike->2/4
3/4 tank blitzes vet LB, promotes to 4/5, takes city, 11 resisters+barracks, granary, market, bank, police station. That removes Aztec iron source.
Capture two Aztec workers to help build the RoP rail/road needed in Japan. There's a samurai standing on it currently. Hope he moves! Once we get past that bottleneck there are multiple rail routes to France through Japan and Iroquois.
Move some tanks and tank army towards next Aztec mainland cities. They only have pikes defending. Too good an opportunity to miss. We'll deal with these before we make peace. One more turn
Short rush some tanks. 60 gold at Bombay via cruise. 40 at San Francisco via coastal fortress. 224 at Elephantine via Infantry. 280 at Alexandria via Infantry. 188 Chittagong via Ironclad. 172 at Heliopolis via Infantry.
IBT
TE between China and Mongols ends. English knight sneaks into Karakorum -undefended!
Orebro, Bangalore, arty->arty
Washington, Bombay, Boston, Heliopolis, Calcutta, Elephantine, Alexandria, Thebes, Chittagong, tank->tank
Darhan barracks->tank
Snagarst market->tank
Tlaxcala flips to Japan with Tank and arty.
Turn 366 1782 AD 10 turns to UN
Japanese samurai still standing on the tile we want to road. So move workers to next one.
Elite Cossack kills English knight->3/5, recaptures Karakorum with 1 resister and a settler->2 workers.
@Teotihuacan:
5/5 tank kills 4/4 pike
4/5 tank kills 3/3 pike
4/4 cossack kills 3/3 pike, takes city. 7 resisters, 1 taxman, barracks, market.
@Swazi:
Cossack kills Impi and takes town. Raze it.
Arty redline English galleon and ironclad.
We have 50 tanks. We're still weak vs France.
Iroquois have Computers.
Peace with Zulus for WM and 3 gold. He has his 1 tile capital.
Peace with Mongols for 40 gold+4gpt+WM+Mandalgovi.
TE between Mongols and Aztecs ends.
Peace with England for WM + Dover - 1 tile island.
Note: Keltoi have MPP with France. It will still be in force when we attack Lyons.
Need to get our troops across Keltoi before we declare, and leave enough behind in the south to defend what we need.
Peace with Aztecs for Jonkoping, Kalmar, WM, 3 gold, 2 workers.
MPP + Amphibious War + WM from Iroquois for Rocketry, WM, furs
MPP with Japan for Rocketry.
We are at peace with all civs, we have MPPs with Japan and Irowuois. Main fly in the ointment is the Keltoi. They have horses and saltpeter, so cavalry, but no motorised transport so no tanks.
Cossack into Mandalgovi, so they can't just walk in. Cossack into Kalmar. Jonkoping is undefended in south west.
Remobilize to keep production going.
IBTAztecs comp[lain about our troops. They auto-eject.
Delhi, Nidaros, New York, Madras, Atlanta, San Francisco, tank->tank
Bjoergvin arty->arty
Palace expands. Coal expires in south. We still have two sources.
Keltoi have built a town near Nottingham.
Pollution at Washington
Turn 367 1784 AD 9 turns to UN
Hurry explorer in Tabriz 32 gold
First phase of road in Japan. Samurai have now moved, so position workers to cover second tile. Move tanks to control critical rail tiles on route towards France through Japan.
Sell WP to India for WM+23
Get MPP+9 gpld from India for Communism
IBT
America and Zulus sign MPP
Wines for coal deal expires with Iroquois! Renew wines for coal+gems+16gpt+WM
Washington, Moscow, Bombay, Calcutta, tank->tank
Toledo arty->arty
Tabriz explorer->explorer
Tzintzuntzen barracks->harbour
Qitaimjorg flips to Vikings. No garrison.
Turn 368 1786 AD 8 turns to UN
The Viking flip has cut our rail links to the eastern end of the southern continent. Buy an embassy with Vikings (28 gold) to see if a RoP is in order. Screenshot attached. Pop 3, 3 rifles, 4 spears, settler in 9 turns. Sell then a RoP for 34 gold+WM.
Complete roads and a rail in Japan. Start more rails.
Build rail in Iroquois Kente near Moscow to improve access to French and American cities.
We now have 60 tanks, 45 arty, 41 cossacks. Still weak vs France.
Explorer checks out opposition. Composite of his explorations around Lyons/Paris at
The nearest oil is near Rheims, close to the Iroquois border.
36 tanks loaded into 6 transports at Snagarst. We have 7 arty and 4 more tanks there now. We can move them to France in one turn, next turn they can deploy via the RoP and the transports can return. So in 3 turns we can have all troops landed and in position to attack. There are 38 more arty in the south, plus 15 tanks. 5 tanks are in Moscow.
The challenge is that when we attack Lyons the Keltoi will declare. We lose our RoP with them. We probably have to gift some English and Aztec cities to Iroquois/Japan to provide a buffer zone between our southern cities and the Keltoi, but we need some active defence against them.
A thought. If I declare on the Keltoi first, then attack them across the border to trigger the MPP with France, with my troops in place in France, does that count as RoP rape? leif thinks it still does.
Looks like France has only one source of rubber, near where we are going to land our troops.
Embassy with Aztecs for 39 gold. England for 28 gold. Neither want to sell MPPs for anything.
IBT
Madrid, Delhi, New York, Madras, tank->tank
York worker->worker
Shanghai, Seattle, Baltimore arty->arty
Seville bomber->bomber
Resistance fading, no flips!
Turn 369 1788 AD 7 turns to UN
Philadelphia is unhappy - draft unhappiness!
Hurry tank Elephantine 216 via infantry.
Hurry infantry Chicago 56 via arty.
Hurry infantry Lahore 80 via arty.
Rush various libraries
Rush tank Darhan 176 via arty
IBT
Waashington, Moscow, Bombay, Memphis, Boston, Philadelphia, Calcutta, Atlanta, Elephantine, San Francisco, Thebes, Chittagong tank->tank
Ta-tu explorer->explorer
Kazan library->tank
Chicago, Lahore infantry->infantry
Giza arty->arty
Coventry flips to Keltoi with cossack.
Tsetserleg Library->barracks
Detroit harbour->barracks
French building Internet, complete Manhatten Project in Rheims
Turn 370 1790 AD 6 turns to UN
76 tanks. We're still weak vs French.
Ship 36 tanks to France. Move arty stack from south into Iroquois.
French ivory deal expires next turn - she gives 16 gpt. Swap WMs
Explorer reserves a sunny spot outside Lyons for our troops, on the right side of the river.
Another explorer goes and leans casually on their rubber plant.
IBT
Delhi, New York, Madras, Darhan tank->tank
Tenochtitlan flips to Aztecs. 1 cossack.
Hastings worker->explorer
Almerikh library->arty
Canterbury, Newcastle worker->worker
New Orleans arty->arty
Santiago transport->transport
Turn 371 1792 AD 5 turns to UN
Load up the six transports again. Some arty and infantry as well as tanks.
We have 80 tanks, 50 arty. Still weak vs France. F4 says we have similar size armies. We are still below our allowed free units (206 vs 242).
IBT
Joan offers to renew trade ivory for 16gpt. Misclick and say yes. Don't think there was much alternative. She won't sell Computers, which is waht we really want, and we'll be at war in a couple of turns anyway, so a better gpt deal is not worth anything.
Washington, Moscow, Bombay, Calcutta tank->tank
Dalandzgad infantry->infantry
Turn 372 1794 AD 4 turns to UN
Land more troops in France. 11 arty, 2 infantry, 22 tanks. Still weak vs France.
Deploy workers in south as human shield to slow down Keltoi attack.
RoP with Iroquois expires next turn. Must renew it before we do anything else. Move our arty stack into France in case of auto-eject in the wrong direction. They've been lurking over the border in Iroquois.
Shaka gives MPP+78+11gpt+WM for Flight+Electronics
Investigate Lyons for 331 gold. 5 MI in residence, UN in 5 turns. It's been delayed by the polluted tile I guess, and my explorer's been standing on it to save our place. Shame
There are 3 arty in Lyons as well, so we'll suffer some hits during our first attacks.
Attempting to size the attack requirement: Assume we deploy 50 arty, we'll maybe hit something with 20 of them. There's a chance we'll get the MI down to 2hp each. Attacking from the right side of the river we'll have better than 40% chance against them. So we should be able to take the city with 20 tanks. Do we set up a second attack force on Rheims? Better investigate Rheims as well, 196 gold. There are 5 MI there as well. We'd need to split arty and tanks into 2 stacks. The problem is the arty, we can't afford to skimp on pulverising Lyons defences. We could maybe divert a little to Rheims and hope to cut it to pop 12, but tanks will only have 16% chance against 4/4 MI in the city. Odds double if we can get them down to 3/4. We'd need maybe 10-15 arty at Rheims, and prayer. So we'll try that. The counter attack will kill us, of course.
IBT
Madrid, Delhi, New York, Boston, Madras, Atlanta, San Francisco tank->tank
Orebro arty->arty
Oslo Factory->tank
Turn 373 1796 AD 4 turns to UN
Renew Iroquois RoP. Can't get anything for it now for some reason.
England seems to have lost Southend. It's now Keltic. Must have flipped.
Rheims is now pop 14.
Set up our troops outside Lyons and Rheims.
@Rheims, on mountain: cossack army, 1 infantry, 30 tanks (5 elite), 14 arty.
@Lyons, on plains: tank army, 2 infantry, 33 vet tanks, 37 arty.
Plant a spy 147 gold. It worked.
France has 125 MI, 6 tanks, 5 cavalry, 2 infantry, 15 bombers, 12 arty, 11 destroyers,10 ironclads, 1 battleship. No marines.
Final planning:
When we take out Lyons and Rheims they'll still have 115 MI. They have 31 cities, with an average of 4 MI per city. Assume 50% have 5 MI each like the ones we've investigated. That accounts for 75. The rest may have 2 or 3 each, plus a few strays. They'll probaby use up to 50 of them to counter-attack leaving the rest to defend their cities. They'll build and draft some as well.
The play sequence is prolly the same as the F10 order and the diplo screen order. If so:
- We attack on our turn and are immediately at war with France, Keltoi and America.
We expect to attack Keltoi positions in the south and to capture our two French target cities. We then have to decide what to do with the cities, depending on our survival rate in the battles. Lyons will be razed. It has SunTzu, but we don't really need it. Our objective is to destroy the UN build. Rheims is worth keeping if possible, for its oil, but I can't see how to hold it. Our troops' survival there depends on staying in the mountains. They would be decimated in the city on the plains, and a flip is highly probable even if the French don't kill us.
- In the interturn Aztecs go first.
- America next, probably won't do anything.
- France next. They will attack us and that will bring Japan and Iroquois into the war against them. France may then choose to go for some easy targets in Iroquois, and the odd isolated Japanese town. There are a couple of cities defended by spears, and some with infantry are reachable. These are easier targets than our armies if they are healthy. Worst case, we'll be hit by up to 27 bombers/arty, then 50 MI. Our two armies can absorb a lot of the pressure, but it depends how effective the bombardment is. Our tanks will already be bruised by our attacks. If the armies and infantry can take out 10-15 MI then our tanks will lose about 40 hp to the rest. That's 10 healthy tanks or 20 damaged ones, so we may survive and hold onto our arty.
- Iroquois have MI, and hopefully they'll hurt some of the French strays.
- Japan may go after France, but I doubt it. Infantry and cavalry against MI?
- Keltoi will counter-attack us, and we'll suffer some losses in the south. Their first attack will cause Japan and Iroquois to declare on them, and maybe that will divert some of Keltoi's firepower onto Japan.
- India will declare on France, then on Keltoi, along with Japan and Iroquois, but I doubt they will be a factor.
- The rest will watch and wonder, and prolly just keep their heads down.
Other intelligence reports:
France has 4 spaceship parts in production, none complete.
Sabotage or a tech steal is not an option. We'd need much more cash.
France appears to have no airports! We won't be able to airlift reinforcements. Should we try to establish a beach head in Riyadh? It would take 3 more turns to get the currently available tanks there and ready to roll. We have 10 tanks now and 6 more next turn. We just have time before the UN build, but it may be dangerous to wait. Our oil deal with Iroquois runs out in 2 turns. I decide to go now.
Continued in next post
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