SGOTM7 - Team jeffelammar

[jeffelammar]

Sounds good. I'll download the save tonight and play either tonight or tomorrow night depending on how things go tonight.

If it's going to be tomorrow, I'll post my ideas tonight anyway.

@denyd - I noticed that your screenshots have messed up resources. Do you have the SGOTM mod installed? You have Oasies where the other shots have olives, your shots don't show the lambs and the desert by the two incense should have goats, but they don't show in your screenshots.

 

[Whomp]

Jeff--Can you try and hit the link now to see if the download would work.
My PC (I'm singing to the choir I'm sure) pops up a weird window called "skins" when I try to check and I can't tell if my link works sometimes.

Never mind. I tried from my office PC and it looks like it's fine.

 

[denyd]

I was wondering why DocT mention the olives. I had to reload my system about 4 months ago and must have messed up that part. I'll check the SGOTM maintenance thread and re-install it.

Since we appear to be alone on this island, I'd like to fill in all the gaps before the barbarian explosion at the age change. Having 20+ horsemen running around chasing workers and pillaging is not my idea of a good thing during a AWD game.

If memory serves me correctly, the only AI left to find is the Vikings. I'm thinking we'll be moving to Monarchy once it's available and staying there the rest of the game. Since we've got writing, has anyone got Philosophy yet? That might be a good choice after Map Making and we could use the bonus tech for literature.

 

[Whomp]

I'm having a bit of a brain cramp here so work with me. I think someone finished the Great Lighthouse but it could've been in my solo game.

 

[CKS]

We haven't met the Vikings, the Persians, or the Americans, so we still have plenty of people to meet. The Americans have built the lighthouse.

None of the AI we've met have philosophy yet. The Zulu have Map Making, Polytheism, and Construction; the Indians and Arabs just have poly. I'm game if we want to try for philosophy first, as long as we pay attention to our prebuild for the great library.

I definitely agree with denyd about filling the island before the age change. The barb situation is starting to come under control and I'd like to keep it that way.

 

[CKS]

Well, I should have paid more attention to the wonders while I was looking at them. The Vikings have built the Mausoleum, so there is no use trying for philosophy first. I think we should go straight for literature after map making.

We need to watch Edrine for MM possibilities, as it has 3 extra food. We need to watch for chances to work the hills. Also, if we are serious about going after the great library, we need to give Edrine the goats and the bonus grassland that Iznik is currently working. Iznik will then be in bad shape until some of the jungle gets cleared, but it gives Edrine 2 extra shields, taking it from 8 to 10 spt after corruption and knocking 6 turns off the current palace completion date.

 

[denyd]

Good catch on the MoM thing. I agree Map Making, Literature and we should be pushing the shidlds in Edrine to the max.

Any thoughts given to a FP city?

We can probably get another 8-10 cities on this island. That will support about 40 units. I'm not sure if catapults are a good choice some of that number. As I see it, an invasion of the Arab lands will need 10-15 swords & 5-7 spears & 8-12 galleys. That right there is nearly 30 units of support. Adding another 10 catapults will either require more boats or multiple crossings. We could probably cut the number of galleys to 4-5 if we find a defensible (hill/mountain & river) landing site and make 2-3 trips to get the troops in position.

 

[Whomp]

Cost-neutral towns...how many units is that? Well, a town supports 2, gives 1 in tax revenue. That's three. Walls are no upkeep, so I shouldn't need more than units. If I let the town grow to size 2 and then make a specialist, I should be able to keep it size 2 and get 2 more tax. So each town will support 5 units -- up to that many are allowed.

This is something Arathorn wrote in his AWS game. We may consider doing this in some of those desolate desert and jungle cities.

 

[jeffelammar]

Status update.

Computer arrived today instead of yesterday.

Spent all evening doing setup.

I just got the new computer into a state that resembles functionality (Still can't get it to participate in the local network. It finds the broadband router just fine, and can access the outside world, but can't see the other computer plugged into the same Lan. Guess I'll have to try something else tomorrow.)

I will definately be able to play my turns tomorrow evening when I get home from work. Sorry for this inconvienence, but I assure you it has hurt me more than you

Since I've been out for a while, here is what I think the situation is.
1. Looks like Literature next if by some chance I finish MM in my turns. Hopefully timed well with the GL prebuild in Edrine
2. Fill in rest of island based on Deny's maps.
3. Start building invasion force. Probably won't be used in my turns, but most likely target is the Arabians.

Anything else?

 

[denyd]

Beware of barbarians is something else to consider. We don't have enough workers to risk any of them being killed by one of the nasty beasts.

You might want to adjust some of my locations based on the fact that my plan did not consider all of the available resources.

 

[jeffelammar]

The Save

Summary
No barbs on our island. Drove off a zulu invasion. 1 turn from MM.

Turn Log

Turn 0 - 1000 BC
Eek, we have a lot of inefficiency here.
1. Istanbul is building Swords at 9spt. Big waste of 6 shields there.
2. Edrine is only at 8spt, not good for a wonder pre-build when we really need the wonder.
3. Bursa is supposed to be a worker pump, but isn't. I'm sure its lack of improvements is due to barbs.
MM Edrine to +10 uncorrupted shields.
Do a bunch of MM in order to minimize wasted shields and food.

IBT - 2 zulu archers land by Aydin. Istanbul grows to pop 5.

Turn 1 - 975 BC
React to landing. Second spear fortifies in Aydin. Horse crosses river to help.

IBT -
R. Zulu Archer dies attacking Aydin
R. Zulu Archer kills fortified V.Spear.
Wonder Cascade: India builds ToA, Zulu builds GW, Vikings build HG.
Istanbul builds Sword -> Settler.

Turn 2 - 950 BC
V Horse kills R. Zulu Archer. (couldn't get an elite in range)
MM Istanbul to 10 spt will use it as a 6 turn sword - settler factory.
MM Edrine for shields. Give it the irrigated sheep as Istanbul is on 3 turn growth for factory purposes anyway.

IBT - Zulus sink barb galley

Turn 3 - 925 BC
Not a whole lot going on. More MM.

IBT - 2 barb horses get by the archer coming to kill them, but I'll corner them next turn.
Bursa Worker -> Worker
Uskudar Catapult -> Barracks (not sure how much artillery will be used)
India builds SoZ ending cascade.

Turn 4 - 900 BC
Athena (archer) kills last camp on our island.
Other troops move to take out the barb horses.

IBT Indians call, are insulted when I ask for their entire empire in exchange for peace.
Artemis (archer) kills 2 barb horses on defense (no more barbs on island)
Istanbul Settler -> Sword (almost went Horse)
Iznit Barracks -> Spear (4 shields, so this is efficient and we have undefended towns)

Turn 5 - 875 BC
New Settler heads for city spot 5.
Couple troops head to guard frontier. If they are there Barb Villages won't pop up.
Entertainment to 20% as Edrine is pop 7.
MM Edrine to 0 food, +12 uncorrupted shields. Edrine might be able to go to 8 pop without raising entertainment again, I didn't think of that till I was writing this up
Istanbul MM'ed kept at 10 spt again.

IBT - Iznik Horse -> Spear

Turn 6 - 850 BC
Not much to say. Regular MM tasks.

IBT - Zulu Galley near Istanbul.

Turn 7 - 825 BC
Send a couple horses toward Istanbul in case the Zulu land troops.
Hire a scientist in the fishing village of Antalya to shave a turn off MM.

IBT - Zulu galley goes back, Istanbul Sword -> Settler

Turn 8 - 800 BC
Found Kafa on Deny's spot 5. Start on Barracks with a chop already started.
Workers swarm to Bursa now that barbs are out of the way.
Scientist fired in Anatalya as we can get MM in 3 without him.

Turn 9 - 775 BC
MM as usual to make sure things are ok.

IBT - 3 Zulu Galleys along se shore.
Izmit Spear -> Spear (need a couple more)

Turn 10 - 750 BC
Drop science spending, hire scientist in Antalya. CivAssist2 shows 2 beaker overflow. (would be 4 if you fire the scientist and raise sci 10%) MM in 1. Not sure it was worth the sci, but Antalya is completely corrupt anyway and has no workable squares other than the fish.
Do a bit more MM.
Time to pop a beer and go write my turn log

Notes
I ran Istanbul as a 6 turn Sword -> Settler factory with the settler coming out at the same time as growth to size 7.
Edrine is at pop 7 and holding. As noted before, we should check to see if we can bring it to pop 8 without raising entertainment spending.
Workers are improving Bursa. We should mine the goat mountain as that will give us a 2/3 square. If we get enough going there we may even be able to build settlers, but getting the worker pump is critical.

The wonder cascade is done. All AA wonders but GL are built and nobody we know is working on it.
India has gone into Monarchy

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Sounds fine.

Istanbul is building Swords at 9spt

Istanbul grows to pop 5.

Sorry to sound harsh, but:

How often did I iterate "Istanbul may never drop below size 5 (=10spt)"?

(This is obviously not meant for you, Jeff!)
It's the lesser evil to delay a Settler for a turn, and work some high commerce tiles (the shells).

Jeff, any suggestions for a roster?
Technically it seems I'm up, but for the mentioned reasons, maybe someone else should go between us two?

 

[denyd]

Should we switch Antalya to something else to get a galley there instead of a curragh (begin our invasion force).

Is it time to start sending about 1/2 of the swords & horses to the south to start working on the Arabs? A couple of galleys shuttling back and forth could land 8-10 units pretty fast and we could start in on him now or should we wait until we can land a 10+ unit SOD on a single turn.

With no wonder cascading and no one who knows literature (that we know of) yet, I do like our chances on getting the Great Library. If so I'd suggest we shut off research and think about using the build warrirors-hook up iron-upgrade to swords-unhook iron strategy. We can pump a warrior each turn from Istanbul.

 

[jeffelammar]

Jeff, any suggestions for a roster?
Technically it seems I'm up, but for the mentioned reasons, maybe someone else should go between us two?

I think we are pretty well spread out as we are now. I keep looking, but I'm not sure how I would rearrange things any better. PM me or post if you have a suggestion.

Roster (Let me know if there are issues with this)
DocT << Up
Bed_head7 << Skip till he gets enough paychecks to buy a new comp.
CKS << Back and on Deck
Jeffelammar << Just played a makeup for previous skip
Denyd
Whomp

With no wonder cascading and no one who knows literature (that we know of) yet, I do like our chances on getting the Great Library. If so I'd suggest we shut off research and think about using the build warrirors-hook up iron-upgrade to swords-unhook iron strategy. We can pump a warrior each turn from Istanbul.

I think we still need to max research to Literature. The palace pre-build only holds 300 shields (I'm not sure how many more cities we need to push it to 400), so the pre-build isn't big enough to go on a long literature research path. We need to maximize our chances of the GL.

As for the un-hook resources, I had intended to set up for something like that, but it would be a pretty costly move right now.
1. Both Iron were hooked up when I got the game (only one should be since we can't trade the excess)
2. One iron has been mined and is the only current road connecting our southern cities.

So to do the disconnect-reconnect move we would have to undo a bunch of improvements AND build a new road to the south. It still may be worth it.

Is it time to start sending about 1/2 of the swords & horses to the south to start working on the Arabs? A couple of galleys shuttling back and forth could land 8-10 units pretty fast and we could start in on him now or should we wait until we can land a 10+ unit SOD on a single turn.

Yes I think it is time to start forming the Arabian Invasion. I moved one of our catapults and a few of our military units in that direction already.

 

[jeffelammar]

Should we switch Antalya to something else to get a galley there instead of a curragh (begin our invasion force).

Doh, stupid me (good thing it is still 1 turn away). I was thinking build a curragh and upgrade it. I forgot that we have no harbors to perform the upgrade.

On that note, it may be worth doing a little pop-rush in the southeast fishing villages.

One more random thought. I think the next city should be in Deny's spot #3. It will make a FP availiable to Uskudar which will be a powerful city if we can get it to the point where it has enough food.

 

[Whomp]

"The devil is in the details"

Sorry guys for my MM maladies. Please be harsh it's the only way I will improve this part of my game.

 

[CKS]

Nice job, Jeff.

I think we need to push hard for literature, but once we get it we should coast for a while and disconnect our iron to build warriors and upgrade them. We should use the time it takes to learn lit to build the needed improvements to go around our iron. It looks like we are in good shape for the great library, as long as the unknown civs aren't working on it. (If our palace prebuild jumps up to 400 shields soon, we can relax some on research and upgrade sooner.)

It looks from the screenshot like there are a couple of tiles on our island that are unwatched. Let's make sure no barbs can pop up.

I don't think we need to wait until we can drop off a huge SOD in 1 turn to start on the Arabs. As soon as we get a good sized stack ready to be shipped over, I think we should go, with however many galleys we've managed to build. They can drop off a full load and go back for more. Once we get started, each galley should be able to drop a load every turn from Konya since it's just a 1 tile trip. All we have to do is survive our first landing, as long as we have our reinforcements close at hand.

 

[bed_head7]

I think that we need 12 cities for a 400s palace on a small map.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Ottomans, 750BC


Summary: Repelled some Zulus, Barbs again, and a nasty surprise…

Preflight:
Nothing to change.
Check resource situation: India has no Horses, Arabs no Iron, Zulu nothing so far. No Ansars? Would be nice.

IBT:
Zulu drop 2 reg Archers and a reg Warrior S of Konya.
Map Making -> Literature.

Turn 1: 730BC
Cat takes off a HP from the Warrior; Sword kills Archer, Horse kills Archer (drops to 1HP). No attacker in reach for the Warrior, but he can’t do any harm.
We can research Lit just in time with the current prebuild at about +-0.
IBT: Warrior moves away, Impi lands on the same spot.

Turn 2: 710BC
Kill the Warrior with a Horse; elite. Bomb the Impi.

Turn 3: 690BC
Sword retreats Impi.

Turn 4: 670BC
Ares (Horse) finishes the Impi off.
IBT:
Grr…another barb shows up; seems like we’re missing a tile.

Turn 5: 650BC
Ankara founded. Nice, Palace costs jump to 400. Keep up the research nevertheless; we don’t know how well the unmet Civs do after all.
IBT:
Indian Galley shows up; another area to care.

Turn 6: 630BC
Athena barely defeats Yokel. Send units to cover a possible Indian landing.
IBT: Indian Galley runs home.

Turn 7: 610BC
Clear a barb Camp.
IBT:
Oh, crap.

That costs us Ares and a Vet Spear.

Turn 8: 590BC
Luckily, Prometheus (Cat) is still next to it, and Arabs couldn’t whip another defender; recapture Konya. 4gp. All citizens still Ottoman traitors.
Phew. The really ugly thing here was: That of course meant the prebuild went down – could have become close.

Turn 9: 570BC
Indian Galley shows up and leaves again.
IBT:
Zulu land an Impi. Barb Warrior kills healthy Elite Horse .

Turn 10: 550BC
Hm, I’m not used to the GotM resources, and thus I irrigate the desert Goats to no avail.
Bomb the Impi.

Comments:
Left a Worker and the Settler unmoved for the next player.
There’s one more Barb Warrior at the camp, and we simply have no cover for the Settler (unless you use the Spear from Edrine, and rise Lux).
Important: Do not delay Literature. If a city flips, we’ll end with a new capital![/b]
Don’t strip the West of units; the Indians could land any time.
We should get up a couple of Libraries; we need a bit of culture, and the Civs we know aren’t that advanced.

Lots of MM possible; IMHO the best use for the capital is Sword-Spear-Settler in 7 turns now. Uskudar and Bursa can share the mountain.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/jeffelammar_SG007_BC0550_01.SAV

 

[CKS]

Okay, I've got the save and will play tomorrow (probably) or Monday.

Konya flipping was bad news, but we were lucky to get it back without to many problems. A palace would have been really unlucky. I think this is one more reason to get started on the Arabs.

I agree about building some libraries. How about some advice on where to build them/how many to build? I tend to build too many libraries and not enough units. Uskudar, Izmit, and Istanbul have reasonable shield outputs. (Edrine will still be working on the GL for a while.)

Do we want to start the FP in Uskudar soon? It'll take not quite 30 turns to build.

Is the settler we have intended for a city where the barb is standing (Whomp's blue dot) or Denyd's #3 (2 tiles west of Bursa)? I like the blue dot better - more food and it clears up all the darkness on our island so we'll be safe from barbs.

I'm still not clear on how close we want to pack our cities. We could have 1 city or 2 between the blue dot city and Ankara. Likewise, we could have 1 coastal city or 2 coastal cities between the blue dot city and Antalya.

We have roads around our iron now. What is the consensus about disconnecting it to build warriors?

I see my military goals as making sure we don't have barbs around, making sure we have adequate units on hand to respond to invasions from the Indians and the Zulu, and building up an invasion force for the Arabs. We won't have galleys during my set, but I'll be working on building some, probably in Kafa and Aydin.