SGOTM7 - Team jeffelammar

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

1) City spots: We should cover as much area as possible, and maybe backfill later. The best spot ATM for me is exactly where the Barb Camp is. The next Settler should go to the Jungle 1N of the Fish. That way, we stay in distance 3, and can squeeze in some more towns later if we need to - I'm not that much for crowding our island. We should crowd conquered landmasses instead.
2) The FP: A Chourt in Uskudar first (provided we learn that from the GLib) should help.
3) GLib: If no unmet AI beats us, we'll get that one in 9 turns .
4) Monarchy: Be careful before revolting. We need a couple of cities (not towns), and we need enough troops first to survive the anarchy. I wouldn't consider any Arab invasion before we're in Monarchy; we won't be able to reinforce for like 8 turns...
5) Libraries: the 3 good cities, Bursa (lots of commerce), and Ankara (for the Whales). And anywhere to fight the AI borders.
6) Galleys...yes, the flip did cost us 26sp on a Galley as well.

 

[CKS]

Well, I've got good news and bad news. We got the great library. We met Persia. Konya flipped again. The Indians have started landing. I've left some moves for Jeff in this last turn, as I felt sure to mess them up. I missed some MM things, but I don't think I screwed anything up too badly.

Here is the save.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/jeffelammar_SG007_BC0350_01.SAV

Turn 0:
Send worker to road forest, move settler around toward barb camp
IBT: Learn Lit, start currency as no one else has it. Switch Edrine to great library. Zulu horse lands, Impi moves farther in.

Turn 1:
Science to 0 (50 turns with 1 scientist). Switch Uskudar and Izmit to libraries, MM Istanbul, bombard Impi, E Archer retreats Impi, V Sword kills horse, E spear kills impi, V horse kills barb.

Turn 2: Kafa starts galley. Bomb Zulu galley.
IBT Indian galley sinks 3 barb galleys

Turn 3: Bomb Zulu galley, kill barb in camp.

Turn 4: Build Salonica on barb camp location, start catapult. Miss bombing Zulu galley.

Turn 5: Uskudar builds library, start harbor as courthouse prebuild. Bomb galley, run across another barb camp.
IBT: Barbs kill Indian galley. We build our first galley. Barb uprising.

Turn 6: Bomb galley but miss. Sword kills barb warrior. Move around to deal with barb horses from uprising.
IBT: Persians show up, land by southern fish. India lands two swords between Izmit and Ankara.

Turn 7: Declare war on Persia - no trades as we are up only literature and they are building Sun Tzu's. Plus we are 3 turns from the great library. Two swords are in range of the Indians; they kill them both. Kill 3 barb horses and move workers out of the way. Bomb a zulu galley. Decide not to attack Persian warrior across river with a spearman, the only thing in range.
IBT: Persians build a city. 1 barb horse attacks and dies, the others move.

Turn 8: Kill the rest of the barb horses and disperse the camp. Zulus now have currency, so I stop research. Bursa starts a library. Move wounded swords, trying to get one back toward Uskudar, which I emptied to deal with barbs. Unfortunately, I accidentally move both of them, and because of the river I can't get the other one back, so I'll lose 2 turns.

Turn 9: Move sword back into town.
IBT: India lands 2 ancient cavalry by Ankara. We build the great library. Konya flips again, taking a vet sword with it.

Turn 10: E sword kills Persian warrior. Catapult bombs Konya, but fails to hit. I move some workers around. I don't do anything with the AC or with Konya, leaving this mess for Jeff.

We have 4 spears that could attack Konya if we want it back immediately, but no offensive units nearby. My inclination is to leave it for the moment.

The Indian troops are only a problem because I messed up moving the swords around and couldn't recover because of the river crossings. We have a horse, an archer, and two wounded swords in range, plus a spear that can be moved down to protect the city. I'm going to bail on this, though, and let someone else deal with them.

We have a settler that was headed down to build a city next to the fish, but the Persians are there now. We can divert the settler or destroy the Persians and then rebuild.

The harbor in Uskudar is a prebuild for a courthouse, in preparation for building the FP there. We should get a lot of techs next turn, including code of laws.

 

[jeffelammar]

Well, I've got good news and bad news. We got the great library. We met Persia. Konya flipped again. The Indians have started landing. I've left some moves for Jeff in this last turn, as I felt sure to mess them up. I missed some MM things, but I don't think I screwed anything up too badly.

I see the file. (Haven't opened it yet though)

I should be able to get the turns done tonight.

Based on what I read here, I see a couple points.
1. We seem to be getting bogged down at home. If we don't get on the offensive soon, we'll be facing muskets

2. Hopefully we'll get chivalry from the GL before some rat AI researches education.

3. Konya is going to be a major flip risk as long as Baghdad exists. Another reason to get on the offensive.

The way I see it, we need to secure the island fast, and then get some serious whoop-axx on the Arabs.

Any other comments?

 

[CKS]

Based on what I read here, I see a couple points.
1. We seem to be getting bogged down at home. If we don't get on the offensive soon, we'll be facing muskets

This is a big concern. The Zulu haven't landed any troops since my first turn, but I bombarded a lot of galleys. I think a catapult or two at the west end of the island would help deter the Indians, but with no more barbs, we should be able to respond to any future invasions easily. Moving to the offensive requires galleys that we don't have yet.

The Arabs have just learned map making, so we want to move on them soon.

2. Hopefully we'll get chivalry from the GL before some rat AI researches education.

This would be nice. I suspect that we'll get at least through feudalism this next turn.

3. Konya is going to be a major flip risk as long as Baghdad exists. Another reason to get on the offensive.

The way I see it, we need to secure the island fast, and then get some serious whoop-axx on the Arabs.

Any other comments?

We'll have a couple of galleys in the next couple of turns, and then we should start our invasion. Losing the nearly complete galley in Konya with the first flip was a big setback.

I didn't disconnect the iron, but we now have some cash for upgrading and roads around the iron. If we disconnect the iron while we finish some galleys, we can build a bunch of warriors. Reconnect, upgrade to MI, and ship them to Arabia.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I'm strongly gainst a mass upgrade strategy. Warrior to MDI costs 90gp each. That's by far too expensive; we better keep a cash reserve for emergency builds, and reseach full speed towards Muskets.
And, we do not need that many attackers to invade the Arabs - but a stack of Pikes. There is no Mountain, not even a Hill in reach to make landfall. Spears will get slaughtered, that's almost pointless...
We better develop and secure our landmass before we invade.
In fact, the most important unit for an Archipelago AW game on higher levels is the Musket. Read handy900's AWS stries, and you see why.
Our real problem atm is not that we don't invade our neighbors - it's that the two techleaders can cruise along peacefully...thatmust change ASAP.

 

[denyd]

Just a quick note that my CivFanatics access will be limited to weekends and evenings starting today. I just started a new job and they block access to this site.

As for future plans, if we don't get Feudalism from the Great Library this turn, we might be able to slip in 8-10 Vet Warriors and upgrade them to swords before we learn it. That would be a good start towards an Arab invasion force. I agree that muskets will be a big help once we get there, but we need to get going offensively soon or we'll be facing rifles before we get started. With the Arabs without iron or horses, the most we'll be facing is archers & spears. Let's hit them before they get to muskets.

 

[jeffelammar]

The 150 BC Save

Summary
Cleared all Evil scum off of our island.
Learned all AA techs, Monotheism, Feudalism and Chivalry from the Great Library.
Upgrades some pikes, MIs and Knights.
Decided to Revolt to Monarchy while the island was secure.

Turn Log

Turn 0 - 350 BC
Boy oh boy. Let's see. First thing to do is protect Ankara and then see if we can destroy Sidon.
One MM thing to watch for is that Istanbul somehow has 9 food in the bin. We should be doing 3-3-4 food

for 3 turn growth. Looking back I see I forgot to maintain this too , can't even follow my own notes
Seem to be roading a lot of Jungle. Doesn't seem very useful. I'm going to start chopping it.
Keep Library builds going until I see how far we advance next turn.

Reinforce Ankara: Fortify a Spear and an Archer. Unfortify the Horseman so that the archer will be the one to defend.

Send 2 more swords to take out the ACs.
Close Eyes and hope for luck vrs the Ancient Cavalry.

IBT
Ancient Cavs kill fortified Spear and Archer in Ankara.
Learn Philosophy, Code of Laws, Polytheism, Monarchy, Construction, Monotheism
Couple of our borders expand.

Turn 1 - 330 BC
V. Sword dies vrs V. AC.
V. Sword kills AC
V. Sword dies vrs AC.
V. Horse kills AC.
Galley Contacts Vikings, no good trade, declare war
Advance forces on Sidon

IBT
Indians Land Warrior - Spearman pair
Learn republic and feudalism from GL.

Turn 2 - 310 BC
Curses, Feudalism sure screwed up my builds by autoswitch to Pikes and MIs.
V. Archer kills Persian R. Archer that came out of Sidon
Troops advance on Sidon

IBT
Istanbul builds Pike -> MI

Turn 3 - 290 BC
V Sword dies to R Spear in Sidon
E Sword kills R Spear in Sidon
V. Archer kills R Spear in Sidon and razes it.
V. Sword kills R. Indian Spear.
Galley meets American Galley. Lacks Mono and Feudal. No money, so no trade. Declare.
Upgrade a bunch of pikes.
Move settler toward old Sidon.

IBT
V. Persian Horse kills fortified V. Spear in Ankara No rax, couldn't upgrade
Edrine builds Library -> Horse
Isnik builds Horse -> MI
Ismit builds Pikeman -> Horse
Kafa builds MI -> Horse
Salonika builds Worker -> Harbor

Turn 4 - 270 BC
V. Horse kills V. Persian Horse.
V. Sword kills R. Indian Warrior.

IBT
Zulu Galley kills something on defence, couldn't see what.
Ankara builds Catapult -> Rax

Turn 5 - 250 BC
Catapult bombards Konya takes 1 hp.
E. Archer (Artemis) kills Spear and takes Konya.
Found Mugla on ruins of Sidon
Upgrade another spear to pike and a V Sword to MI
Switch Uskudar to Aqueduct. Bigger city will help FP more than Courthouse.

IBT
Not much happens. Enemy Galleys move a bit.

Turn 6 - 230 BC
Shuffle troops around.

IBT
Istanbul builds MI -> Horse
Edrine builds Horse -> Horse
Sinop builds Rax -> Pike
Vikes start Knight's Templar. We should get Chiv soon.


Turn 7 - 210 BC
More Troop shuffle. Nobody to fight just now.

IBT
Learn Chivalry. I was hoping it would wait another 3 turns till I had a bunch more Horses built.
Zulu start Sun Tsu
Persia starts Knight's Templar

Turn 8 - 190 BC
More movement.
Seriously debate switch to Monarchy. On the one hand I could complete a few more items, but I think now

is as good a time as any. Our Enemies are not on our island, we have 3 horses that will be knights. Go

For it. Hope the time isn't too long. Crud. 8 turns. I hope this doesn't come back to haunt me.
MM to maximize gold and minimize clowns. Keep one sci.


IBT
Not much. Indian Galley aproaches, will bomb next turn.
Vikes complete Sun Tsu , would rather someone else get that.

Turn 9 - 170 BC
Cat damages Indian Galley.
Cat damages different Indian Galley.
Upgrade 3 Horses to Knights. (Landing insurance during the anarchy)
Shoot, miscalculated my anarchy worker actions. Forgot about the slowdown.

IBT
Indians land R Spear and R Warrior.
Persians switch to Knight's Templar

Turn 10 - 150 BC
Cat damages Persian Galley
Knight kills Indian Spear. Will wait for Elite Sword to kill the Warrior since I want a shot at Leader.

Notes to next player
1. There is an Indian warrior by Uskudar. I killed his spear escort, but decided to leave him to the elite Swordsman that is coming from the direction of Edrine. There is a catapult that could be used to damage the warrior too if you choose.
2. We have 6 turns left on our Anarchy. I was disappointed when I got the dreaded 8 turns.
3. Uskudar will finish its Aqueduct the first turn after anarchy ends, It should then be able to grow and build the FP, assuming we still want it there.
4. There is a Pike in Edrine that was just upgraded, I suggest sending it to one of the southern coastal cities that does not yet have a pike in it.
5. I started a couple harbors and rax that I am not attached to. Change them if you feel like it.

Hope the anarchy doesn't hurt too much, it seemed like the best lull in the fighting that we were going to get.

Our Military Might such as it is

If we weren't trying to kill them, this is what they'd trade

 

[jeffelammar]

Roster Reminder


Denyd << Up...
Whomp << On Deck
DocT
Bed_head7 << Should go sell some blood so he can get the new computer.
CKS
Jeffelammar << Just played

 

[bed_head7]

I actually gave blood a week ago for the first time, even though they almost didn't let me since I had such low blood pressure, and they didn't know that it was always really low. Then when I was all done, they gave me a ton of apple juice. It probably would have been less expensive for them just to give me cash. But, I think by the 15th-16th I will probably be back playing.

 

[Whomp]

@ BH How about I give you a loan for a couple weeks? I know where to find you.

Regarding a MGL--what should be the first build? Knight Army? I know Handy used Musket armies to pillage all in their path.

I've thought of downloading Civassist II but my laptop is running so slow and I'm afraid this would make it worse. I think I need to start fresh with the hard drive unless someone has a better idea. Thoughts?

 

[jeffelammar]

Regarding a MGL--what should be the first build? Knight Army? I know Handy used Musket armies to pillage all in their path.

If we get one right now, I would suggest Knight Army. I wouldn't want something as powerful as an army sitting idle till we get Gunpowder. Remember though that we can only transport an army if it has a single unit in it, so we would have to transport it and load it in the combat zone.

I've thought of downloading Civassist II but my laptop is running so slow and I'm afraid this would make it worse. I think I need to start fresh with the hard drive unless someone has a better idea. Thoughts?

CivAssist II rocks! It is very nice to be able to check on everything without clicking through 25 Civ screens. I was using it on my laptop before it died (A 1.13gz with 512mbr. It didn't really have any effect on the speed of playing Civ, and it did make the MM easier. (On the new computer things are even better)

I don't know what your computer is, but a complete harddrive wipe can help. A less destructive thing you could try would be to delete you "page file", defragment the drive and re-create it. If harddrive inefficiency is your problem, that will often help.

 

[denyd]

OK, I got it. I'll try to play tonight and post the results.

 

[denyd]

I had planned on playing a full turn set, however a little surprise happened in Turn 1

Turn Log 3

Turn 0 – 150 BC – Looks like I won’t be building very much during this set

IBT: Persia lands a Spear/Warrior combo in the desert

Turn 1 – 130 BC – Catapult wounds Indian Warrior – Elite Swordsman (3/5) kills Indian Warrior and Orhan is born (1st MGL)

I’m going to stop here and wait for a team consensus before continuing tomorrow night

So what's the best use for this GL.

Knight Army, Forbidden Palace, Form an army but don't load it?

I'll be on-line for an hour or so, then I'll check back tomorrow night to see what the rest of the team thinks. My vote would be to form an Army and load a single knight in it. If an opportunity arises to attack a wounded warrior, then take it, otherwise use the knight army to lead the offensive against the Arabs.

 

[Whomp]

If we get one right now, I would suggest Knight Army. I wouldn't want something as powerful as an army sitting idle till we get Gunpowder. Remember though that we can only transport an army if it has a single unit in it, so we would have to transport it and load it in the combat zone.

Sweet! Nice going denyd. I asked the same and I agree with Jeff on this. Loading 1 knight now makes sense to me.

 

[bed_head7]

More good news, as my computer is on the way, and I should be able to play by June 15th as promised (orientation at Cal on the 13th-14th).

 

[jeffelammar]

Knight Army, Forbidden Palace, Form an army but don't load it?

I'll be on-line for an hour or so, then I'll check back tomorrow night to see what the rest of the team thinks. My vote would be to form an Army and load a single knight in it. If an opportunity arises to attack a wounded warrior, then take it, otherwise use the knight army to lead the offensive against the Arabs.

Well, that validates my decision to save that last guy for the Elite Sword

My take is either a single Knight or unloaded army. I think that once the anarchy ends we will be able to get our FP built the old fashion way. I'd lean toward the knight army. Hopefully we'll get more later that we can use for a Musket army if we want.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Knight Army. We can land that one and cover with a stack of Pikes; as long as there's only one Knight in it, it won't defend before the last Pike.

But, one thing: Do NOT use that one on the Arab island!

We can fight Abu without it - but we need to pillage either the Zulus or Indians (seeing Zulu had a huge tech lead, I'd say Zulus). Plus, Zulu seem to really lack Iron; thus, the Army stack is pretty safe when landing.
India OTOH has Swords and ACavs.

 

[CKS]

I agree - make an army and put a knight in it. I also agree with Doc Tsiolkovski in that we don't want to strand it on the Arab lands if our next target is the Indians or Zulu. However, if we are going to continue down towards the Persians next, we'll want to move it over to Arabia and fill it up. I'm torn on this. If we can get to the Zulu before gunpowder, their lack of iron will be a big help to us. Delaying to take care of the Persians first will increase the chances of us facing muskets instead of spears. On the other hand, having a land front with the Persians while our war effort is focused on the Zulu doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I'm not sure if you really got my point - we should fight the Arabs first, and then probably Persia (if they're really on the same landmass). But, we need to get pillaging armies on the other islands in parallel. For that job, a pike army would suffice; since we will invade the Zulu sooner or later, Knights are better here.
But for India or Persia a Musket Army will be better.

The trick is that we only can invade one Civ at a time, but need to cripple the others as well.

 

[jeffelammar]

The trick is that we only can invade one Civ at a time, but need to cripple the others as well.

Great call here. This didn't even occur to me. I generally try to go after one target with everything I can spare.

I like the idea of getting armies pillaging civs that we aren't attacking.