SGOTM8 - Ivan

The Greek capture of the Roman town on the island gives us a chance to get off our island. When we get Nationalism from Greece (btw why do we care? - it is an optional tech), we can go to war with Greece. We take 2 of their cities on the mainland. Then we get tarentum in peace negotiations. We are then off our island. Other than that we can hope China settles another cityon that island.

Another option is propaganda. We have a big culture lead over the vikings. If we learn espionage we can use propaganda against some of their isolated cities.
 
IMHO, we should declare to Greece, soon, and do Leader fishing, and, maybe, capture 1-2 cities, BUT leave them with 1 city on our own island! In peace negotiations, we should DEMAND the island city.

If we're afraid that Rome will finish off Greece, then we shouldn't capture their cities on our island.

Decide.
 
Getting the greek city might be the best shot. The ai usually will give it´s last city when you got a stack next to their capitol. Leader farming will not really work with this few cities. Might get lucky but will face WW sooner or later, just for a 1 in 40 shot at a leader? We´ve got the units to do this in just a couple of turns.
 
OK, I played 10 turns and will get industrialisation soon.
Bank, Colloseum, University and Palace are actually Factory prebuild.
Roman capture back Island city, but greek take it back again. Situation is unclear indeed. Also, because of WW I can't recomend war with Greeks. We have 2 Coals at our land, but it was not roaded. Will have it next turn. First thing to do is RailROad mines near both core Cities.
 
I played 1 more turn in a hope that situation will be more clear. It has not.
Put troops to position to attack Greeks. If team decided war K-A may go.
Trade metalurgy to england. simple algebra shows that it costs 87gpt +125, they pay 83gpt +125.
It is OK. File on the server. will write turnlog soon.
 
AdrianE said:
1)The Greek capture of the Roman town on the island gives us a chance to get off our island.
2) When we get Nationalism from Greece (btw why do we care? - it is an optional tech), we can go to war with Greece. We take 2 of their cities on the mainland. Then we get tarentum in peace negotiations. We are then off our island.
3)Other than that we can hope China settles another cityon that island.

4) Another option is propaganda. We have a big culture lead over the vikings. If we learn espionage we can use propaganda against some of their isolated cities.
1)Yes it is a good chanse. With our income we can kill japan there.
2) Nationalism useful Tech, you know. But not so useful to research it ourselves. Idea is Do not let Greeks to trade it to anybody but us Becase of that we must kill them at once they and we get it.
3) Japan Killed China already.
4) We need Nationalism to learn Espionage. Actually our culture is not that big vs Vikings.

Argumens for and against war with Greeks.
for:
1) Fishing for GL. we may trade economics from japan or vikings and Rush Smith with GL.
2) We may get Trapezum if it still will be Greeks.
3) We may kill Greeks later easer.
4) Operation "Nationalism" will not work if we did not get Trapezung.
Against:
1) Possible WW.
2) Rome may capture trapezund and if we demand it we will lose it vs Greeks.
3) If Roman capture it we may run "Nationalism" at any time, when ready.
4) We may demand less from Romans when in war vs Greece.
Summary: Things depend on Trapezund. Better to wait and see. We also still have MA vs Rome and I am not sure that we do not need MA reputation at all.
 
OK I played 10 turns and trade WM every turn
Caseria flips to Japan. Mind your culture, Rome!
750AD - decreased science to 50% - lux 20% Metalurgy still in 2
no one will sign an alliance against Rome, we must declare them first.
Declare to Romans. Sing MA with English vs Romans for 19gpt+11.
Sing MA with Vikings for wine and Dyes vs Romans.
Channge Bachs to Bank in NY.
We need 1 unit in each Greek’s City to prevent flip.
760 AD Rome capture back Traentum (Trapezund in previous post).
Trade Magnetism to England for 84 gpt+174. (they have 5 gpt+ more).
Trade wine+gem+dyce+1 gold forIvory to Japan. They havwe Harbor again.

Send Knights north for military training.
770AD – Detrit riot. Steam in 8.
780AD – We have Newton. Steam in 6. Sparta culture expand and we have 4 lux now. Mcmng Cities.

790AD – Vikings capture Palmira. Romans don want to talk.
800AD – Trade ToE to England. 56 gpt+84. They have 18 gpt more.
Upgrade spears, rush Aqueducts in Miami.

810AD – Vikings have Economics. So what? Rome do not want to talk.

820AD – Somebody destroy Byzantium. Rome capture back Palmyra. Massive Japan fleet sail to China.

830AD – Sci 40%. Steam next turn.

840AD – We learned Steam. We have 2 Coals in our Jungle. Unfortunately both unroad.
Stop some workers and send to work on Coal. Industrialization at 7. Set productive Cities to pre-build Factories.
Japan kill China.
Roman agree to talk but “insulted” about all Cities (single size Palmyra?) and doubt size 2 Tarentum. Looks that it is our only chanse.
850AD – Greeks capture Tarentum again (size 1 now).
Send troops toward to Greeks Capital.
IBT Greeks asked to leave. OK, OK (will see).
Rome wants peace. Offer too light.
860 AD We have Coal. RRoad around San-Francisko, but this workers must go to NY and Washington then. I left some units to wait decision about war with Greeks.
After some Algebra trade Metalurgy to England for 83gpt+125.
(Economics and navigation casts 21 gpt each => Metalurgy costs 125+87 gpt. can trade.)
King Alex up. Do you understand trade strategy?
1) do not trade otional Tech
2) Trade only if deal close to normal.
3) Argumens like "we get at least something " are not acceptble.
Inprouvents in big Cities are Factory prebuild.
 
@Ivan: if you have some data on tech costs, I'd be/feel better. I'll stop when we learn something. I don't really know what each tech costs, so, when I trade for expensive techs, I just wait to see if anyone will offer huge gpt/sum(and if they have the money).

Your plan for "Nationalism" may not work in my turns, anyway: We need to attack with absolute certainty that we'll derstroy the Greeks, and not just base our luck on RNG. Last time, I had attacked Athens with 5 knights simultaneously, and I didn't manage to kill even 1 of their units, and 4 of their horses defeated 1 spear, 1 pikeman and 1 axeman easily to capture Sparta.
So, what I'm saying is, if we don't gather 3 different SoD's of knights to attack the Greeks, we'd be irresponsible to do that if want Nationalism for sure(just consider that, the Greeks may have around 4 units in each city: we need at least that many units only to defeat them).

If we want Tarentum that bad - assuming, we had captured 2 Greek cities on our island and the Greeks were willing to gift Tarentum and we traded them to get Nationalsim- we could break our "peace treaty" and kill them the same turn, but our rep would sink.

Well, post any ideas, as I won't play immediately.
 
I thought you only got 1 rep and we already lost it, or is it repared after time/turns. Anyway, we won´t need a good rep anymore. But isn´t it against sgotm rule to sign false treaties
 
nerovats said:
I thought you only got 1 rep and we already lost it, or is it repared after time/turns. Anyway, we won´t need a good rep anymore.
No, it isn't repaired.
nerovats said:
But isn´t it against sgotm rule to sign false treaties
Is this a question? If it is, it's fine with SGOTM rules to break treaties and do RoP rape.
 
In that case rape can be very rewarding :eek: :crazyeye:
Anything for getting a city on anotehr island.
For science I still prefer to stop by ToE, wont cost a lot, will deny the possibility for the AI to catch up, and we will probably need adv flight anyway.
 
nerovats said:
I thought you only got 1 rep and we already lost it, or is it repared after time/turns. Anyway, we won´t need a good rep anymore. But isn´t it against sgotm rule to sign false treaties
Actually there is three different reputations: Trade rep (we lost it) MA rep (we have it)
and RoP rep (dont know). If we loose our MA rep nobody will go to MA with us untill we pay lump sum. Probably MMP also will not work. I am not sure, that 1 island City costs that much.
 
K-A, situation so unclear (I mean romans war: what English do, where Greeks, Vikings)
that I cant give good advise about your turns.
The simplest thing is do nothing. No new wars, no new deals at all .
If Romans will agree to give City you may stop and discuss.
Keep Sci at max, after Industrialisation - Refining.
Swich to factories.
Build Rail network. Rail mines first, irrigation only for net.
Continue barb farming (your good idea)
I got 50 but forgot to write about it.
If Japan will have cash (14-15 gpt) we may sell our single saltpeter.
And connect second one after.
Do not spend Cash to rush anything I don't know, when English will recover from debth.
Play 8 turns.
@ nerovats:
Until nobody new Electricity we may continue to make our reseach plan. With factories we will get ToE first.
 
IBT
Japan begins Magellan's.

870AD (1)
Trade WM for 5g. Tarentum is still Greek.

880AD (2)
Trade WM for 5g. Nothing else worth mentioning.

890AD (3)
Trade WM for 6g. Tarentum is Roman now.

IBT
Rome and Greece sign Peace Treaty.
The Vikings begin Magellan's.


900AD (4)
Sell WM for 3g.

0) We learn Industrialization --> ???

1) I'll stop here to discuss what to research: will we go for Flight, and buy Medicine + Electricity and research Scientific Method we we can(start a pre-build of course!!!) OR we'll research those techs ourselves?

2) If we want ToE, we should start Universal Suffrage in Washington (as a ToE pre-build) right after the Factory?

3) I haven't traded anything during my turns: I think, we should keep building knights in some cities, position 3 different SoD's so we hit Greece at the same turn, and do the "Nationalism" project.

4) Maybe, it'd be best for us to not trade Steam Power to England, although, they're willing to give us PP + Economics + Navigation. Japan just went Industrial. Should we trade Steam to England, if it learns Military Tradition(cavalries)?

5) Rome is willing to gift Tarentum for Peace, but I'm not sure that we won't need to make other MA's in the future... Maybe, we should wait 5 more turns for our MA's against Rome to stop, and then demand Tarentum, so we can make future MA's as well(I think, we'll need them and also need to do RoP rape).

6) Maybe, we'd want to trade for Navigation, so our luxuries can be connected by ocean squares? Vikings want Physics, but we may discuss it.

7) I've set the core to build Factories for now: if you want me to change into something else in some cities, say so. IMHO, we have all the time in the world to do the "Nationalism" project, as Greece is very backwards now. Maybe we should build factories and later produce a stronger military? Do we feel that we'll be able to demand Tarentum after 5 turns without producing more knights or not?

8) IMHO, at some point, we should build 5 banks(we already have 1), so we'll be able to build Wall Street(with 1000 cash in our treasury, it gives 50gpt, so we should definetly do it).

9) I'll continue the Leader farming with barbs: DO NOT go further than the first mountain N of Pharsalos IF possible(it takes some time to move between unroaded mountains), so barbs camps can appear(already, 1 appeared, and I'll go after it).

EDIT: @Ivan: I played some turns before I saw your post, but, Japan hasn't money for our Saltpeter(don't we need it for 20 turns?), I didn't hurry anything. We need the Corporation, before going for Refining. Ok, I see your plan with Saltpeter: we have another source right outside Pharsalos(make a colony or wait)?

Save on server.
 
We might as well get TOE/Hoovers. We would need a Hoover's prebuild in New York.

Wait 5 turns to get the Roman city.

We might as well do the Nationalism project versus Greece now they lost tarentum.

No reason to trade a required tech for 2 optional techs.
 
King Alexander said:
IBT
1) I'll stop here to discuss what to research: will we go for Flight, and buy Medicine + Electricity and research Scientific Method we we can(start a pre-build of course!!!) OR we'll research those techs ourselves?

2) If we want ToE, we should start Universal Suffrage in Washington (as a ToE pre-build) right after the Factory?

3) I haven't traded anything during my turns: I think, we should keep building knights in some cities, position 3 different SoD's so we hit Greece at the same turn, and do the "Nationalism" project.

4) Maybe, it'd be best for us to not trade Steam Power to England, although, they're willing to give us PP + Economics + Navigation. Japan just went Industrial. Should we trade Steam to England, if it learns Military Tradition(cavalries)?

5) Rome is willing to gift Tarentum for Peace, but I'm not sure that we won't need to make other MA's in the future... Maybe, we should wait 5 more turns for our MA's against Rome to stop, and then demand Tarentum, so we can make future MA's as well(I think, we'll need them and also need to do RoP rape).

6) Maybe, we'd want to trade for Navigation, so our luxuries can be connected by ocean squares? Vikings want Physics, but we may discuss it.

7) I've set the core to build Factories for now: if you want me to change into something else in some cities, say so. IMHO, we have all the time in the world to do the "Nationalism" project, as Greece is very backwards now. Maybe we should build factories and later produce a stronger military? Do we feel that we'll be able to demand Tarentum after 5 turns without producing more knights or not?

8) IMHO, at some point, we should build 5 banks(we already have 1), so we'll be able to build Wall Street(with 1000 cash in our treasury, it gives 50gpt, so we should definetly do it).

9) I'll continue the Leader farming with barbs: DO NOT go further than the first mountain N of Pharsalos IF possible(it takes some time to move between unroaded mountains), so barbs camps can appear(already, 1 appeared, and I'll go after it).

EDIT: @Ivan: I played some turns before I saw your post, but, Japan hasn't money for our Saltpeter(don't we need it for 20 turns?), I didn't hurry anything. We need the Corporation, before going for Refining. Ok, I see your plan with Saltpeter: we have another source right outside Pharsalos(make a colony or wait)?

Save on server.
1) I hope (we have enough cash that we can do both: flight first and ToE next.
2) We may have Coal plants next. then banks, unis, Wall street. It is too early to prebuild ToE.
3)NO
4)NO Cash only from England! what MT for without Flight?
5) This is central point of the game. I'd like to listen all team oppinion about that. For unknown reason it grow very fast in my turns and I miss it. We will miss it again if will wait MA ends. I hope we can continue without MA. From another hand what we will do with this City? Wait for flight and go to war with Japan? Greeks still at the Island and war may be difficult.
6)NO we have all connection. Note, that Steam block the way to Electricity and without Steam nobody come to ToE.
7) Yes, see 2) for next. We defenetly need more knights also. Huston will work as "unprotected city" as in SGTOM7.
8) yes, after Factories and coal plants.
9) Yes.
"edit" Yes, also Check if Vikings want trade horses.
Anyhow I want Cash only for Steam from English. I belive, they research Nationalism now. When they get it we may do "Nationalism" operation with Greeks. I belive it will work.
Just have 18 Knights and good RR connection.
Do not fogert to swich to Corparation NOW. Let SF grow. I said
RR mining first
 
@Ivan: I'll wait then and play tomorrow the rest of my turns, but, IMHO, we'll definetly need MA's in the future, and, of course, do a well prepared RoP rape, so, I think we shouldn't brake our MA.
We'll also give another reason to the Vikings and English to attack us after a while, if we break the MA.

Note that, Coal Plants produce much pollution, and we don't have that many workers to clear pollution on mountains(a polluted mountain will require 9 native workers to be cleared at the same turn, nevermind that we might have multiple pollution strikes).
I'd also like us to pre-build for Hoover's, as hydro plants are the same with coal plants(but without pollution), and we won't have to pay maintenace costs(with Hoover's).
---Besides the maintenace costs for coal plants, what we'll do for that many units that we'll produce? Won't they slow our research rate? Do we plan to maintain a HUGE Army and transfer it with helicopters or via airlifitng? Cavs wouldn't do much against infantries, anyway, unless we indeed had a literally huge army.
I think, factories will be enough for the production, until we get Hoover's.

The "undefended" city would be a great idea if the Vikings wouldn't be on this game: I suggest to have guards in ALL our coastal cities, and leave the rest UNDEFENDED: it'll still work, as the AI will target them while in war.
 
OK, lets have 2 coal plants latter in Washingtonn and Beigin, say. One for ToE prebuild another for Hoover. We have 4-5 turns to decide about Tarentum. You may play 4 turns more without Breaking MAs and team will make a decision. Stop then. We also postpone Nationalism operation for a while.
Try to trade Saltpeter and horses. Continue build Knights.
 
Better to build a coal plant in Washington right after the Factory, as it'll help the city to build any Wonders MUCH faster: we could always sell it later on, when we'll get Hoover's(and also, avoid further pollution).

I'll play 4 more turns soon, and also try to sell saltpeter and horses. I'll finish my turns with these 4 more turns.
 
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