SGOTM8 - Ivan

[AdrianE]

I've played

General comments: our core cities are too small (especially second core) and their terrain is poorly improved. We need 24 food per turn, size 12, producing shields in multiples of 10.

For example Bejing was only producing 39spt. A minor adjustment (railing a mined BG) made it 40spt after corruption.

preturn - rush some improvements to improve on the above

1050 - workers
1060 - pop goody hut for maps
1070 - england has nationalism
1080 - learn steel
1090
1100
1110 - Rome and England sign peace
1120
1130
1140 - learn combustion
1150

Houston needs 3 jungle tiles cleared and mined and railed
Thermopolae need the same

New York and Washington are prebuilds. Washington could be Wall street, an airport then hoovers. NY should be TOE which we should get in 20 turns or so. Other cities can use coal plants to prebuild for airports.

 

[nerovats]

I think we should rush more units in teh new cities. That´s hy I rushed harbor and rax in Tarentum to be able to rush knights, after growth rush worker, then more knights, we could take on of the islands before getting flight this way. Japanese seems most obvious.

 

[AdrianE]

Nerovats - why bother rushing units. In 7 turns we will have airports. We can ship 5 to ten units a turn to those islands. In 6 turns we will have our own saltpeter. We can upgrade knights to Cavs and take those islands easily.

It was more important to get our cores ready for the industrial war phase (efficient production) than to rush a handful of units on the islands.

I think the sequence should be:
Rome - clear the northern island and demand Hispalis in the peace
Japan - clear the southern island and Japan proper from base in Hispalis
Rome - finish them off
England and Vikings

 

[King Alexander]

When are we going to execute "Nationalism Project"?

Philadelhia should work 2 more mountains, as it has too much food without shields(hte city will still grow working the mountains).

Delphi should also start a factory: it'll build all the improvements it needs much faster when the factory is built, and with Hoover's our cities will be powerful enough. We'll a really big army of cavalry to to attack riflemen, but we can do it before the AI gets infantries(otherwise, we'll research AF and MT).

 

[nerovats]

Nationalism project is not needed anymore, as we´ll have replacable parts soon.
If we get flight in 7 we don´t need to rush knights anymore. I hoped these were rushed last turnset, could have had 5-6 of them, enough to claim Japanese island. Now better to wait another 7.

I´ll be gone for about a week, starting tomorrow. Probably won´t have internet access, will post as soon as I come back.

 

[I. Larkin]

Nerovats - why bother rushing units. In 7 turns we will have airports. We can ship 5 to ten units a turn to those islands. In 6 turns we will have our own saltpeter. We can upgrade knights to Cavs and take those islands easily.

It was more important to get our cores ready for the industrial war phase (efficient production) than to rush a handful of units on the islands.

I think the sequence should be:
Rome - clear the northern island and demand Hispalis in the peace
Japan - clear the southern island and Japan proper from base in Hispalis
Rome - finish them off
England and Vikings

Me up. I thought we have saltpeter already. Why not to have colony there? I think we must have both: bombers and airports. I think we will take Japan Island first and bombard and demand Caseria. We also may bombard and demand Utica (vikings). Rome is good because ve may trade Lux and coal to them. North island will not give much to us.
Nationalizm useful, btw. It opens way to espionage. also our research path will be Flight, Electricity, Medecine, Sci. method At theory, electronics (via ToE), MP, Mot Transp, AF, Sanitation, Espionage. Not sure about rate. At war mode we may need more cash. What do you think about Mobilisation?

 

[AdrianE]

King Alex - I set Philadelphia that way to maximise growth. After we hit size 12 we can readjust the tiles by mining one of the tiles I irrigated. Getting to size 12 quickly maximises production over the long term.

 

[King Alexander]

@Adrian: I understand your reason, but Philadelphia can have +4 food even if works 2 more mountains, so, it'll still grow to size 11 in 4 turns. We only gain 6gpt for 4 more turns with not working the 2 mountains, but we stay behind in infrastructure, starting producing units earlier(and we have more than enough gold atm), and only those 2 mountains are available for shields in the nearby terrain for the city.

@Ivan: go ahead and execute the "Nationalism Project", and add 1 more city to our empire(destroying Greece); we need every bit we can get in this competition. Nationalism may help us or not(leading to Espionage), but we'll get more gold/unit support with 1 more city, and we'll also eliminate a possible flip.

About Mobilization: the problem here is that we won't be able to built ToE and Hoover's, but only military buildings and units. Sure, it could help us a lot, but I'd first prefer to get Hoover's before going for Mobilization(we don't know AF, anyway, so we can't transport our units with helicopters, capture cities and start landing on other islands as well --- if we could demand a weak city on a big island and airlift our units, we should think of it more).

btw: I'd prefer us to build bombers than artillery, as they have greater range and lethal land/sea bombardment.

 

[I. Larkin]

I'v put 1210AD file to server. In brief: I executed Nationalism plan and prepared to war vs Japan. However, Romans declare last turn: they will pay for that! Question I cant decide: shall I trade Corporation to English NOW or I can slow down research but not make English "too strong"?
I'd like to play few more turns tomorrow.
Ivan.

 

[King Alexander]

Should we consider a palace pre-build in NY for ToE? Better to have Washington building bombers/units until it'll go for Hoover's, get ToE asap and begin building it in Washington.
Shouldn't we build an airport in Washington first, before going for bombers?

We should build really many bombers(for constant lethal-bombardment of enemy cities/units within range).

What's the deal with England by selling the Corporation? Is it the money + incense(103gpt + luxury)? I'm not sure.

If we bombard to the ground enemy cities in big islands(within range), we could demand them in peace treaty(especially, if we had destroyed cultural buildings and reduced the cities' population). That way, we'll get a foothold on big islands. From that point on, all we have to do is to BOMBARD the nearby cities/resources/luxuries to own the island.

Question: are ALL the winning conditions enabled? Can we win by domination or not? If we can, we should be careful about our future territory.

 

[I. Larkin]

"What's the deal with England by selling the Corporation? Is it the money + incense(103gpt + luxury)? I'm not sure."
So am I. But I think more money we have the better. The only woryy that they declare to us.
we do not need more airports because we have not enough troops to transfer.
We will prebuild both: ToE and Hoover when time come.
Ivan

 

[Gyathaar]

We should build really many bombers(for constant lethal-bombardment of enemy cities/units within range).

Question: are ALL the winning conditions enabled? Can we win by domination or not? If we can, we should be careful about our future territory.

conquest, domination, culture and histograph victory conditions are turned on.. so you have to avoid domination. Also note that bombers dont have lethal land bombard..

 

[I. Larkin]

File on the surver. last thing happen IBT that roman Galeon sail south, presumably to Japanise island. I send 2 bombers there. I dont know how long we need bombard Ravena. Keep trying. I think we have enough Cavalries (send them home) but build Bombers and fighters (for scouting).
King-Alex up. Most important is to play at the turn when you get Sci Method. Use "Big picture" to get ToE straight this turn and take Atomics and Electronics IBT

 

[King Alexander]

@Gyathaar: thanks for the information.

@Ivan: I had a look at the save. I'll try to play tomorrow evening some turns.

So, you didn't trade the Corporation to the English. In case they demand it, I'll refuse.
We're still at war with Rome -- for how much longer do we plan to continue the war?

IMHO, we should build some banks in the core near our FP: we'll need that money soon and our "original core" is enough to keep building units for now. Don't you think?

Washington is going for ToE and then Hoover's, right?

How many units should I airlift back from the small Roman island? How much resistance did you face from Rome during your turns? I need to know if Rome isn't much of a threat before returning our units back to home.

All opinions are welcome.

 

[I. Larkin]

@Ivan: I had a look at the save. I'll try to play tomorrow evening some turns.

1) So, you didn't trade the Corporation to the English. In case they demand it, I'll refuse.
2) We're still at war with Rome -- for how much longer do we plan to continue the war?

3) IMHO, we should build some banks in the core near our FP: we'll need that money soon and our "original core" is enough to keep building units for now. Don't you think?

4) Washington is going for ToE and then Hoover's, right?

5) How many units should I airlift back from the small Roman island? How much resistance did you face from Rome during your turns? I need to know if Rome isn't much of a threat before returning our units back to home.

All opinions are welcome.

1) Renegotiate Peace at preturn. Do not cave. We will have more WHappines. Adjust Clowns. Do not trade electricity! Trade gems to Japan.
2) The longer the better. Now we have war happiness. Bombard Ravena and take last roman City on North Island. Live 4-5 Cavs send 5-6 muskets. If English declare we'll need more.
3) Later. Now we need bombers. We also need Sci Method in 9-10 turns.
4) Washington and Beiging go for ToE and Hoover. We decide later where each wonder will be.
5) Romans unload 4 cavs from Galeonon and send something from others Cities.
As I wrote next Galeon sail South from north Island. Also at South Island 1 roman Knight attacked and died.

 

[King Alexander]

Pre-turn
Renegotiate Peace Treaty with England and also take 20g.

IBT
England demands the Corporation: I refuse and they declare. I just followed what we agreed with Ivan: "Do not cave". Thing is, now our treasury runs low, and we lost 1 eqWorker.
We learn Electricity --> Medicine(in 5).

1255AD (1)
Rome unloads 3 cavalries near Brundisium. We trade Gems to Japan for 16gpt.
We kill the Roman cavalries, and we capture Nicomedia. Ceasaraugusta(England) stands for this turn. Sell WM for 2g.

1260AD (2)
We capture Ceasaraugusta.

1265AD (3)
Bombard Rome down to pop 10 from pop 12. Sell WM for 1g. We haven't done anything bombrading Ravenna the last turns, except injuring units, but I continue with bombardment.

IBT
We sink an English galley.

1270AD (4)
I decided to target improvements this turn: Ravenna has been cut out from the rest of Roman land(it also lost it's harbor due to bomardment). Maybe, we should...starve the Roman cities a bit

1275AD (5)
Rome is now disconnected from the rest of it's empire and without a harbor. Sell WM for 5g and rush a library in Brundisium as it's an important city for our bombers.

IBT
Rome begins Universal Suffrage.
We learn Medicine --> Scientific Method in 4 at -18gpt(we have 237g total).

1280AD (6)
Sell WM for 3g.

IBT
An English galleon unloaded 3 cavalries near Brundisium. A Roman galleon appoached Tarentum.

1285AD (7)
England is willing for Peace, but it must suffer first. Sell WM for 3. We didn't get any Leader from attacking the English cavalries. We also sink the Roman galleon.

1290AD (8)
We destroy Rome's barracks from bombardment and we drop the city down to population 7. Ravenna also goes down to pop 8. Sell WM for 3g.

IBT
The Vikings begin Universal Suffrage.

1295AD (9)
We destroy Rome's Marketplace and Bank.

1300AD (10)
We learn Scientific Method, switch Beijing to ToE, and we learn Atomic Theory and Electronics(Washington couldn't make it this turn). Set Washington to Hoover Dam in 5 turns(don't forget to SELL Washington's and Beijing's Coal Plants when we'll get Hoover's).
Bring Rome down to pop 7 once again. Destroy Ravenna's Library and the city goes down to pop 7.

That's it: I'll stop here, so the next player can decide things(some units have their movement).

1) IMHO, we should go straight ahead for MT(RP --> MT) and then go for AF and start conquering the world. Sanitation is useless for us, as we'dd need many luxuries for pop greater than 12, but if we want to build Battlefield Medicine, alright, but we'll need 5 hospitals.
2) I think, we should also make an effort to also get US: our main competitor is York(England), but I doubt it has a Factory, and Beijing could beat it easily even with a Factory with the shields it make per turn. I feel, we're going to need US when we start conquering around, as it lowers/slows down war weariness(even with more luxuries, war weariness would get to us soon). Anyway, you decide.
3) Rome gives Byzantium for Peace, but it's on a small island, so, no much use of it. Of course, if we knew AF, we could start unloading to England tanks with Helicopters(we'd need an airport to transfer our tanks/infantries, and rush helicopters in Byzantium).
4) We should build 5 stock exchanges and build the Wall Street: we need to support more troops and rush improvements in the future. More money could make the difference in the end if we needed to rush things.
5) Japan has a worker for sale. I didn't trade WM this turn, so do it.
6) At some time, we should also rush an airport in Tarentum.

 

[I. Larkin]

"1) IMHO, we should go straight ahead for MT(RP --> MT) and then go for AF and start conquering the world. Sanitation is useless for us, as we'dd need many luxuries for pop greater than 12, but if we want to build Battlefield Medicine, alright, but we'll need 5 hospitals.
2) I think, we should also make an effort to also get US: our main competitor is York(England), but I doubt it has a Factory, and Beijing could beat it easily even with a Factory with the shields it make per turn. I feel, we're going to need US when we start conquering around, as it lowers/slows down war weariness(even with more luxuries, war weariness would get to us soon). Anyway, you decide.
3) Rome gives Byzantium for Peace, but it's on a small island, so, no much use of it. Of course, if we knew AF, we could start unloading to England tanks with Helicopters(we'd need an airport to transfer our tanks/infantries, and rush helicopters in Byzantium).
4) We should build 5 stock exchanges and build the Wall Street: we need to support more troops and rush improvements in the future. More money could make the difference in the end if we needed to rush things.
5) Japan has a worker for sale. I didn't trade WM this turn, so do it.
6) At some time, we should also rush an airport in Tarentum.
"
1) Yes, we get Sanitation after AF.
2) If we get GL, yes but build from scratch - no
3) We must send all bombers to Heraklea and Bruzidium to bombard Ravena We may get Peace for this City when size 2. Do not bombard Rome. We may also cosider Peace with english for their gold+gpt.
4) may be.
5) Yes.
6) If we get Ravena airoport there is more important.
Conehead up. Please let us know asap if you need skeep adain.

 

[King Alexander]

@Ivan: if we have a good chance of demanding Ravena for Peace, then yes, we should bombard the city to the ground; ALL our bombers from Brundisium and Heraclea can reach and bombard Ravena.
Ravena has ALL it's roads cut off, hasn't a harbor, and we can easily drop it's population with CONSTANT bombardment.

So, let's go for MT and then, AF and start doing some serious damage to our rivals; bombers will play a GREAT role in a fast conquer mode, as they'll play the role of artilleries and bombard each enemy city before we take it(assuming the city is in their range).

 

[I. Larkin]

yes, bombard and demand. we may disband some bombers to help to rush airport in ravena. we may swich to mobilisation after peace and declare again to rome. we will have war happiness again.

 

[King Alexander]

We should build some banks in our second core and 1-2 more stock exchanges(for Wall Street) to have more money: with Hoover, we'll get Banks in 2-3 turns in our strong cities, so, why not? We could rush sooner with more money.
We'd need to do that BEFORE we go mobilized, though.