SGOTM8 - klarius

[Northern Pike]

Got it.

I think we have to adjust our plans to circumstances, and I don't see any reason to found a useless, vulnerable city at Red Dot--or anywhere in that area--when we'll be at war with the Chinese fairly soon anyway. If there's a clear consensus that we should settle there I'll try to do it, but I don't see the point.

I like the fact that Black Dot is on a hill, since in the long term we don't want to settle on jungle/grassland in that food-poor region. But there's an important technicality here--would the Chinese consider that a provocative settlement, because Black Dot is within two tiles of Chengdu (so the AI wouldn't settle there, I believe), or not, because it's not within Chengdu's twenty-one tiles? Does anyone know?

I do incline towards settling on Blue Dot, and on the square two NW of New York, provided it's desert and not floodplain.

 

[Megalou]

The purpose of a town close to Shanghai is not having to throw in units from a half dozen ships that we can't make or take them on jungle hikes through AI areas without roads and without safe trasport to and from our core. Also, hurrying a harbour in Shanghai to connect horses once resistance has waned is not exactly cheap. We are research dependent, horseless and can't afford the scorch-the-land/fast-conquest-stop-research-in-early-MA style. If you still can't see the point, please explain why. But do play the way you see fit.

 

[Ronald]

I agree with Megalou to found a city near Shangai to get to the horses without a big army. The other two cities are there to provide a quick road connect.
We of course must protect these cities from the beginning so that China is not tempted by an unconnected city.
After invention and a some longbowmen (around 10 should probably do it) we can fight a limited war for Shangai, Chengdu and Nanking. This should give as at least Hangchow in a peace treaty. If China has a city on another continent/or island we should of course try to get that city.

Any comments?

Ronald

 

[Northern Pike]

OK, if Red Dot is intended as a tactical town to give us access to Shanghai, I follow the logic.

Of course we can fight a limited war with the Chinese if that's all our strength allows. But they don't seem very strong, and I suspect that once we get going with a good stack of longbowmen we'll be able to crush them completely, unless we have to allow them peace to pick up an overseas city.

 

[Northern Pike]

750 BC, end of turn

 

[Northern Pike]

1000 (0): I switch Boston and Houston to barracks builds. Playing a pure farmer's gambit while making settlements provocative to the Chinese would be too much.


975 (1): Washington settler --> settler.

The Chinese build the Pyramids in Beijing, so there's our Industrious Wonder.

The Japanese complete the Oracle.


900 (4): The Chinese have Construction, but I won't try to do anything about it until we discover Currency.

The Greeks and the Chinese both begin the Mausoleum.


875 (5): Our archer disperses the barbarian camp in the mountains SE of Seattle, gaining 25 gold (1-0). There's still a barb horseman in the area, though.

We found San Antonio (for the Alamo ) on Red Dot.

The barb horseman dies attacking our archer (2-0).

Washington settler --> settler.

Boston barracks --> spearman.


825 (7): Research down to 30%, Currency still due in one turn.

The Greeks have Construction.

We found St. Louis on Blue Dot, claiming the dyes, and I'm able to cut the lux rate to 20%.

Currency --> Polytheism, due in five turns at 80% research, -4 gpt.


800 (8): Currency to China for Construction, 151 gold, and the Chinese WM. We then sell Currency to the Greeks for 80 gold and their WM, not because this is good value, but to improve our chances of trading Republic for their free MA tech.


775 (9): Washington settler --> settler.


750 (10): We found Detroit on Black Dot.

 

[Northern Pike]

We'll discover Polytheism, and enter the MA, in two turns. I assume we'll then want to let the Greeks have Polytheism for almost nothing in hopes of trading Republic for their free MA tech, but those of you with more experience of such devious ploys are welcome to comment.

Once we've discovered Polytheism, we can raise the lux rate and return our four specialists to real work.

The Chinese now have an overseas city--Tientsin, on the island south of Beijing.

I've got our three new cities working on warriors to help with the flip risk, but it's not something I feel strongly about. Feel free to change those builds.

My inclination would be to produce two more settlers out of Washington, because it never hurts to have a couple in reserve, but after that we can start treating Washington as a normal city rather than a settler pump.

There seems to be no efficient MM solution for Miami at the moment, so I've got it set up strictly for population growth, with its high-shield tiles assigned to Philadelphia. The next player can reassess the situation there when the city reaches size five, and when we get gems hooked up.

Boston should normally have the use of its forest, although Atlanta can have it until Boston completes its spearman.

Needless to say, we have to keep all the tiles on the southeastern peninsula under our observation, or the barbs may return.

 

[Northern Pike]

The chequerboard:

 

[Megalou]

This looks good. The date to enter MA looks decent indeed. Superb defensive position for the barb uprising. Not a very high flip risk so far. San Antonio is highest with 0.7-1.3%. The others have an "insignificant" flip risk.

Not impressed by the barracks and spearmen though. What can a couple of spears do way up north if the Chinese attack? And if we didn't have them, we could surely keep our core safe anyway. I will switch Houston back to library if it's OK with the majority of the team. This is too safe play for my taste and you don't know where I live in case I mess up

Note to self: Don't go building no settlers when Chicago expands. Don't go building no settlers when Chicago expands. Don't go building no settlers when Chicago expands. Don't go building no settlers when Chicago expands.

 

[Megalou]

Another Q: There is one tile where a barb camp can appear. Should I move a warrior out of S:t Louis to "illumiate" it?

 

[Megalou]

And another Q: It will probably still be a long time before we need cash for upgrades. Should I hurry the library in New York?

I will play tomorrow around 6 pm SET.

 

[Ronald]

Another Q: There is one tile where a barb camp can appear. Should I move a warrior out of S:t Louis to "illumiate" it?

I would do it, just to be safe in case of the upcoming age change

 

[Ronald]

And another Q: It will probably still be a long time before we need cash for upgrades. Should I hurry the library in New York?

I have no strong opinion about that issue. Do what you think is best.

On another issue: Our FP is still in the infant stage. Do you have any good idea how the micromanage the cities Miami, Philadelphia and New York better?

I also would switch St. Louis from warrior to a cultural building to put some flip pressure on Hangchow.

 

[Ronald]

I will switch Houston back to library if it's OK with the majority of the team. This is too safe play for my taste and you don't know where I live in case I mess up

That's OK with me.

 

[Evil_Kanevil]

Well played NP and Ciceronian

I agree with Megalou as well, libraries are more important than military power now, I'm confident we'll manage to avoid armed conflicts until we take on china...

 

[Megalou]

I would do it, just to be safe in case of the upcoming age change

I'll be moving the warrior (or two of them?) through Chinese territory just so that he/they won't have to attack across a river if there is a camp there. I hope we are clear on delaying the Greek free tech trade one turn if there is a camp. Otherwise it's just an elaborate way to get our warriors killed quicker . Let's hope there's nothing, 'cause I'm reluctant to move both warriors out of S:t Louis and the Detroit warrior can't reach there, although he could protect S:t Louis next turn.

 

[Megalou]

On another issue: Our FP is still in the infant stage.

I'm not clear on what you mean by this and how it relates to the other towns. Shields #2,3 are waste and accordingly it is working gold and food now. But I can mine the mountain and get us up to 3 spt in about 12 turns. With 3 available floodplains the town has some growth potential. But I can get it up to 2 spt as soon as it hits size 5.

I also would switch St. Louis from warrior to a cultural building to put some flip pressure on Hangchow.

Yes, unit support should be reserved for archers.

OOOPS! I just spotted purple borders west of San Francisco. Let's hope they get MM soon.

 

[AlanH]

ALL C3C TEAMS PLEASE NOTE:

The SGOTM framework for C3C has the following changes from the out-of-the-box rules:

- aluminium will appear when you research fission instead of rocketry
- uranium will appear when you research computers instead of fission

These mods were also in SGOTM 6 and 7 as well, but didn't really affect anyone. This game could be different

 

[Northern Pike]

What can a couple of spears do way up north if the Chinese attack?

Quite a lot, since judging by what we can see right now the attack would be delivered by warriors. As we all know, the AI's attacks tend to be small-scale, opportunistic, and stupid, so there's no call for fatalism. Also, we'll need veteran spearmen to cover our longbowmen eventually, since it's unlikely that anything better will be available. We'll want at least 600 shields' worth of units and barracks to attack the Chinese, and we're not in a position to build a force like that quickly at the last minute.

I strongly disagree with using our hoard of gold to rush a library in New York, or anything else. Sooner or later that money will fund deficit research, which is much more important.

Good thinking regarding the one unobserved tile.

 

[berserks01]

lurker's comment: Hope I'm not barging in or anything and that you guys don't mind, but this has been bothering me for quite awhile now (about 5 hours ). How come you don't settle on the east coast between Nanking and Chengdu ? It seems to be a better position than where St. Louis currently is.

Even taking in the corruption thing around the FP, it's closer than San Antonio.