Shall we play another game?

[Pete2006]

You were lucky with that Hinduism!

I agree on second city site, because a) it will get you closer to Japan, b) after border pop you have secured two more city sites in southern coast (at least for a while) c) it will have a decent early production (cow + mine).

I suggest a good-old axerush, it's better to kill Toku soon. Maybe leave him a city or two, if you don't meet more civs before that.

Very lucky with Hinduism. Now I'm sure I'm going to take monarchy with the Oracle tech.

I would stop the war with Toku ASAP. It would be a pain in the A__ if he shows up with 4 protective archers when you are just building the 2nd settler.

About 2nd city site, 1E of the 2nd cow looks good, but it is 7 tiles aways from Capital, be prepared to shed -2 or -3 /turn. But if you are gearing up for an axe rush, that is prob the best spot.

I normally build early cities near the capital, 3-5 tiles away to keep my science at 90-100%.

If you fight Toku, i suggest bring at least 2x Axe more than his defending archers. And skip hill cities until catapult.

100% science? How is that possible? I'd also prefer a closer 2nd city but it just isn't meant to be. The other locations aren't that great.

 

[r_rolo1]

I agree with both CivSetä and ABigCivFan. Having toku as a neighbour is worse than being isolated and every turn you let him live is more time for him to build more pro archers or agg axemen. On the other hand if you axerush Toku you may forget the Oracle ( decisions, decisions...) and the free Monarchy. And being DoWed by toku is not a good way to start a game...
If you want to build a 2nd city 1E or the cows is very good place now and in the future. I would grab it even if you axerush Toku. Is far from capitol but it will start to pay itself is short term.

Plan:
Peace with Toku ( ceasefire will do)

Settle the 1W of the cows spot

Oracle Monarchy, while Building axes in the other city ( I don't know if you want to transform your capitol in a future GP farm. If then, maybe the Oracle would be better in the second city, to avoid poluting the GP pool with those 2 GPhrophet points and risk a not wanted phrophet)

Go for Toku's capitol

 

[CivSetä]

I think that both Oracle and Axerush can be done simultaneously. Suggested second city has enough production (+chop) for Oracle, build and whip some axes in capital at the same time. After finishing Oracle whip couple of axes in second city too and go for Toku. 8-10 axes should be enough to take his capital, then you have plenty of time to build more and pillage other cities.

IMHO you should capture only the capital, after that you probably have room for 6-7 cities which is enough until medieval times. Southern city with fish and wheat looks nice early game GP farm #2.

 

[Pete2006]

Haven't had time to play. Should be able to post an update tomorrow.

If I research priesthood next, oracle is a lock. I'll probably settle a 3rd city before taking Toku and I agree that 8 axes should be enough. I'll throw in a spear as well just in case.

Tech from here will probably be priesthood - agriculture - AH - Writing - Alphabet - pottery - literature.

Should be able to at least get maths + IW from Brennus. Hopefully I can meet some other AIs and trade for Calender.

 

[Pete2006]

Round 3: Not much action going on yet. Playing a slow opening to avoid mistakes - and because I'm using an unfamiliar leader.

2nd city goes up at the agreed upon location. Barb archers are visible to the west and south but haven't attacked yet.

I thought getting peace with Toku would be more difficult but he didn't ask for anything and I didn't have to kill any of his guys.

I found horses to the south and I can settle the 3rd city either on the blue dot or 1W of it or some other location. Any thoughts?

Also, 6 turns to oracle. Are we in agreement on taking monarchy?

 

[ABigCivFan]

Blue dot looks great for 3rd city. It is coastal, will enjoy all the nice health and trade bonus from harbor. And it is a very decent production site for both land and naval units which will help you far down the road. 4 workers are probably needed to quickly bring the 3rd city on line and build those wineries in the 2nd city.

I would let Toku settle that stone and plan on capture it later. Your science isn't great after settle the 3rd city, I would plan on building a temple in Capital(or use the Oracle GP), run a prophet, and hope to use a GP to bulb Theology cause you will need theocracy to get those 2 promotion units for fighting Toku.

Monarchy is good,get those wines on line for trade.

Send a chariot later to explore more.

Edit: I would even whip 2 boats and send them to opposite directions to explore the coast and hoping to meet other civs. If war starts early, they can mess up Toku's Sushi boats

Later on run scientiest for that early Academy.

 

[CivSetä]

Blue dot looks good for third city.

I wouldn't wait any longer, declare war against Toku ASAP. He is probably busy building settlers (or even wonder?) and won't have more than 2-3 archers in capital. IMHO there is no need to wait CR2 units, just build few CR1 extras. I agree lightbulbing theology, though.

IMHO science is not a problem. Three wine squares will help soon, and maybe we have pottery too in few turns?

 

[r_rolo1]

IMO:

Oracle Monarchy ( wine + HR )

Coastal blue dot is a nice city site. Maybe a 4th city .

Go for toku ASAP

 

[cabert]

crazy option :
what about settling on the stone and going for the pyramids?
nothing beats a spiritual leader with pyramids

 

[CivSetä]

crazy option :
what about settling on the stone and going for the pyramids?
nothing beats a spiritual leader with pyramids

Weird, but not an impossible idea - at least there is enough forests around the capital. It wouldn't take too many chops IMHO. But then the window of early war will definitely close - no time to attack Toku soon enough.

 

[r_rolo1]

Weird, but not an impossible idea - at least there is enough forests around the capital. It wouldn't take too many chops IMHO. But then the window of early war will definitely close - no time to attack Toku soon enough.

Maybe with police state he could still get it... But I agree: is a long shot. But if it worked... game over ( for everyone else )

 

[Pete2006]

crazy option :
what about settling on the stone and going for the pyramids?
nothing beats a spiritual leader with pyramids

Now that's what I call a gambit!

I'd have to research masonry and put off lib - alpha. It would also preclude an early war with Toku since I would still like to build the GL.

Also, AIs love the pyramids so I'm sure a couple are already building it.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Pyramid indeed is a gambit give the situiation. No Masonary, far away, and Toku is probably a few turns away to settle that stone as well.

I would settle the coastal blue dot, whip Granary+barracks in 2nd and 3rd citie and start Axeman; Granary+liberary+temple in capital, 1 boat to explore. Run a prophet in capital while researching Writing/Alphabet, use the GP to bulb Theology, run theocracy immedietly.

About war against Toku, I think our goal should be capture a very good city(capital) + gold loot. We will need overwhelming numbers, i would probably bring at least 10 Axe, need to take that city in 1 attack. Cant afford failed first attemt and facing CGII+DrillI archers next turn.

Toku's cities are far away, so we should be near COL(bulbing/research) when we are about to capture his cities. Whip courthouse in captured cities.

GL/Calendar/Currency should be the next goal.

 

[Pete2006]

I like that plan but I'll probably run the prophet in the 2nd city to match with the oracle point and then build the shrine. I'd have to research at least 3 techs - I think - to be able to bulb theocracy.

Techs will probably be lib - alpha - CoL - Lit.

If the music GA is still available what do you guys think about going for that? Don't GAs bulb Nationalism?

 

[r_rolo1]

Don't GAs bulb Nationalism?

Yeah they do, but I think that you need to avoid monotheism for that. See spoiler below

Spoiler :

Great Artist:

Literature
Drama
Music
Polytheism
Monarchy avoid it?!!!
Mass Media
Radio
Mysticism lol
Monotheism no masonry ->no construction -> no cats
Divine Right
Alphabet dificult
Meditation
Priesthood
Theology
Nationalism target

From Great People Tech Preferences

I wouldn't advise to do that.

 

[Pete2006]

Round 4: Preparing for war!

The Oracle comes in nicely as planned. Stonehenge was built around the same time so perhaps there are no industrious civs in the game. Maybe the Pyramids gambit would have worked?

Anyway, with no cottages, gold mines or other commerce resources I took monarchy so we could work for grape vines and get to alphabet a little quicker.

Running the prophet stunted growth and slowed troop production but since we are philosophical, it would only take a couple turns.

The boat ploy was a success! We located another civ. Unfortunately another stingy civ that doesn't like to tech trade and doesn't like us much either... Maybe Hinduism will spread to her. Am I hoping too much?

I foresee pulling off very few trades.

I started running scientists as soon as I researched lib. I can usually get alphabet around 900 BC or earlier so this is a bit disconcerting. On the plus side confused, even after I get alpha I probably won't have many trade options.

The extra gold is nice. Hopefully I can trade for meditation so I can build some monasteries.

:barf: What no barf smilie?

Toku is moving in to settle next to my silk (I think those are silk). Hopefully he settles on that hill so I don't have to raze his city.

I have 4 axes and 1 spear ready for battle and all three cities are building more axes. I think 8 axes will be enough and I'll go for TOku's capital and maybe one other city if I have any troops left.

Any trade thoughts? I'd probably have to gift monarchy to get Vivky to like me enough to start trading with me. That would really suck...

Also tech from here - I like CoL then Literature. I think 5 scientists now is a priority. 2 is not enough. There should still be plenty of time to build the GL.

 

[Pete2006]

Yeah they do, but I think that you need to avoid monotheism for that. See spoiler below

Spoiler :

Great Artist:

Literature
Drama
Music
Polytheism
Monarchy avoid it?!!!
Mass Media
Radio
Mysticism lol
Monotheism no masonry ->no construction -> no cats
Divine Right
Alphabet dificult
Meditation
Priesthood
Theology
Nationalism target

From Great People Tech Preferences

I wouldn't advise to do that.

Bummer dude.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Things I would have done differently:

1) Pottery before Writing/Alphabet. You had 7 cap @1400BC, I would no doubt whip a Granary in each city ahead of everything else to let the cities grow at twice the rate. (especially when you were running GP and GS in cities)
I did not see much need to rush to Alphabet.

2) Research Mono and let 1st GP bulb Theology. Can always use the 2nd GP for a shrine and start spread it with missionaries.
a. Theocracy helps a lot with your war (in fact 25% better)
b. You found a new religion
C. AIs value Theo a lot, can trade it for Cal/Currency and lots cash later.
D. The shrine does not help that much besides the 3GPT...

I would not think about Music yet. At that time you probably will be focus on getting Civil Service fast and etc.

 

[Pete2006]

I prefer to let the other civs found some religions. I already have Hinduism and will likely get Taoism. I would like some religious wars played out on the other side of the world.

Pottery could have come earlier, I admit, but I'll probably trade for it here so it isn't a big deal. I just started running specialists.

I think this GP will be my first and only GP. The rest will be GSs so it is now or never for the shrine.

 

[CivSetä]

I see a nice 4th city 1N of copper in northern peninsula. I'd found it relatively soon, before there are some englishmen around.

I'd build 10+ units before war, it's late and Toku may have even have CGII/CGIII archers in capital.