Sharp drop in the number of miracles

i think epople's thinking of the word "miracle" is a tad too large. for instance, i was on my way out the school door when i realised i forgot my jacket, i went to my locker only to discover that i had brought the wrong book home and out the wrong book in my locker. i consider that a miracle (albeit a small one) becuase it was God looking out for his people (me). that's just an example and i know people all over the world have similar experiences and they can all be deemd as "counicdence" but i think it's stupid to think God only works in the big things,a miracle is something that lies outside the realm of science, and quite frankly it wasn't cold so i really had no reason to remember my jacket, i can see the hand of god working in this so for me it's a miracle.
 
Sure, every day people live who should have died. But far more people die who should have lived. Is it God's work when a tree falls and crushes a six year old child? Is it God's work when good people die slow, agonising, uncurable deaths from disease or cancer? Is it God's work when children are born with congenital brain deformities? Or is it only God's work when you find your car keys just when you thought you'd lost them?

The unexpected happens to everyone. Big or small, good or bad, it happens. After all, there's always a chance..


If there's a drop in the number of reported miracles these days, it's most likely because the average person knows more than the average person used to, and is thus less likely to attribute unusual (or perfectly normal, as the case may be) events to the work of gods.
 
ybbor said:
i think epople's thinking of the word "miracle" is a tad too large. for instance, i was on my way out the school door when i realised i forgot my jacket, i went to my locker only to discover that i had brought the wrong book home and out the wrong book in my locker. i consider that a miracle (albeit a small one) becuase it was God looking out for his people (me). that's just an example and i know people all over the world have similar experiences and they can all be deemd as "counicdence" but i think it's stupid to think God only works in the big things,a miracle is something that lies outside the realm of science, and quite frankly it wasn't cold so i really had no reason to remember my jacket, i can see the hand of god working in this so for me it's a miracle.
I would say that your brain is functioning properly in the fact that you remembered. It is still good to see that you are following the advice of the Bible. 1 Thessalonians 5:18a "In all things giving thanks." A miracle is something that is out of the ordinary. It is a term that has been abused to mean almost anything. Some of the miracles that Catholics say are miracles, mainly the the virgin Mary, everything after the birth of Christ. Somethings like seeing the virgin (she is not a virgin any more, she had sex after giving birth to Jesus,) Mary appear on a stone or whatever are not miracles, but things that people want to see because we do not know what she looked like and she most definitely would look like many of the pictures and statues. Sorry about getting off track. The last miracle is the one that Elgalad. The next miracle that people will see is the one of those people who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal saviour being ressurected and met him in the sky. This will be instantanious, so you will not know about it until you notice someone you know is missing. After that, time is very short for people to accept Jesus into their hearts.
 
FearlessLeader2 said:
You don't need miracles today, prophecy is unfolding every minute. Do you or any literate person with access to a newspaper have any credible counter to the argument that the four horsemen are riding hard and fast over this earth? That some of the seals have already been opened?

(Yeah, I know there have been natural disasters in the pasts, and wars, but today they happen with unheard-of frequency.)

Every generation fro milinnia was convinced that there generation was the last, and that the apocolypse was coming. Even the apostles thought it would happen in there lifetime...
 
So, other than a lame dismissal based on ignorance of current world events, do you have any legitimate refutation of the four horsemen's ride being in progress?
 
The whole definition of a "miracle" is completely arbitrary. What may be a little hint from God to one devoted Christain may be a simple everyday thing to another. My final stance on this matter is that humans simply don't know.
 
FearlessLeader2 said:
So, other than a lame dismissal based on ignorance of current world events, do you have any legitimate refutation of the four horsemen's ride being in progress?
*squints and looks around*

I don't see these four horsemen.. :undecide:
 
Milan's Warrior said:
In Biblical times and in Jesus times miracles seemed to be an everyday thing. Up to medieeval times miracles were still quite frequent; resurrections were also quite frequent.
You said it correct: Seemed to be an everyday thing. Uneducated people in that times, when brilliant civs had been lost/degrated centuries ago, what can I say?
I say something to a homo-Erectus form that time, and he not only believes it, but it makes it a cult.
Milan's Warrior said:
The closer we get to modern days the fewer miracles we see. I don't think we had claims of big miracles (such as the parting of the Red Sea) in centuries.
Who says the parting of the Red Sea was a miracle? The believers? You wouldn't expect otherwise from them, they NEED to believe somewhere.
Milan's Warrior said:
How do you explain that?

Being an atheist I explain it with the fact that now people just don't believe in these things anymore.
Those who NEED to believe in miracles regardles of the logical/scientific explanation, they will believe.
btw: what is a miracle? An unexplained thing. Why people assume that a God is responsible for this unexplained thing? Psychologists have many theories about human nature/brainwashing.

About prophets: Well, psychopaths and brain-damaged people, who sold they crazyness to uneducated people hoping for a better life - just my opinion; I don't offend anyone's family here.
 
FearlessLeader2 said:
So, other than a lame dismissal based on ignorance of current world events, do you have any legitimate refutation of the four horsemen's ride being in progress?
I am quite surprised you take it literally. Not even the Pope takes it literally (actually, I think it is quite a long time catholics don't take it literally anymore)
 
*SIGH* No, there is not an actual quartet of horsemen riding around whipping up war, famine, pestilence, and death. But the way things are going, it certainly seems that way, doesn't it? AIDS and famine ravage Africa daily, in the richest country on earth, a half million people live on what they find in the garbage, wars and lesser military conflicts ring the globe, earthquakes and volcanoes are occurring with alarming frequency compared to previous centuries, the weather is going insano, and death tolls from these things are rising.

No previous century has even come close to the 20th and 21st centuries virtual monopoly on calamity. The last century started off with a bang too, in Tunguska. Caused by a 'star falling from heaven'. Let's see, that was... 1908? Within six years, half the world was embroiled in conflict, and since then, the longest period of time when no nation was at war with a neighbor or dealing with a civil war has been 27 days or so.
 
FearlessLeader2 said:
So, other than a lame dismissal based on ignorance of current world events, do you have any legitimate refutation of the four horsemen's ride being in progress?

Well, let's see. Death, War, Pestilence and Famine, right?

Well, Death is a busy guy, but - comparitively speaking at least - no more so recently than at many times. Indeed, while there are more people in the world than ever before, and thus more people dying, people are living longer than they used to in most places (Africa being the only continent where this isn't the case). The world is a bit short on mass deaths at the moment, at least compared to past spectacles. The Black Death, various Mongolian exploits, two World Wars, Mao's Great Leap Forwards ("I don't get why nobody's realised that you can double agricultural production by planting the seeds closer together. Everybody do that!") - none signalled the end of the world, and they were more impressive than current events. Meanwhile, fiery nuclear death still seems a way off.

War? Actually, the world's almost relatively peaceful right now. It's not short of strife, true, but excepting the non-stop adventures of the United States and the usual bunch of African civil wars, it's comparatively quiet right now. Just the same old border disputes and ideological squabbles. It's certainly been worse in the past. Most of the time, in fact. Especially this last century. Things which have been worse in the past aren't exactly heralds of the apocalypse, unless it's a very slow apocalypse.

Pestilence? Still getting about, but not at an all-time high. AIDS is doing well, but counter that with the loss of old favourite smallpox plus the frankly unprecedented - if hardly universal - levels of sanitation and medicine in the world, and it would seem that Pesty is concentrating on just one continent. Ending the world one piece at a time, perhaps. Worries about superdiseases of the future abound, of course, but these have as yet failed to materialise.

Famine? He doesn't seem to be up to anything too out of the ordinary. There are still plenty of people who have trouble getting enough food, but there always have been. There are just more people these days. On the whole, the last century was much more impressive for big famines. Future water shortages could hit Asia pretty hard, though, but that's the future again. Perhaps Famine's just reshoeing his horse right now.


If anything we've mostly just got background levels of doom and gloom right now. More people in the world make that a bigger background, but more people also imply that the four are doing a pretty crappy job of population control these days. Parts of the 20th Century saw them galloping about a fair sight more than they are today, but even so the world doesn't appear to have ended sixty years ago. Give it twenty years, perhaps. Or is the end of the world a slow, gradual process lasting, say, four thousand years? That's about how long people've been expecting the world to end 'any day now' for, you know. How far do these guys have to ride?

Well, you did ask.

P.S: Revelations isn't real.
 
I don't think the worlds problems are necessarily worse than they have been, we just get more news coverage of what actually is happening so although there may be less going on than in the past, we hear more about it, so the situation looks worse than it actually is.
 
FearlessLeader2 said:
You don't need miracles today, prophecy is unfolding every minute. Do you or any literate person with access to a newspaper have any credible counter to the argument that the four horsemen are riding hard and fast over this earth? That some of the seals have already been opened?
The founder of JW belived that the end of the world (second coming) was due in the early years of the 20th C. When that didn't happen he decided to begin a new church and save what he could of his failed prophecy. Why should we believe that the second attempt to predict Jesus' return would be any better?
 
cgannon64 said:
Those miracles in the Bible never happened. Either everything is a miracle or God never had an active hand in our affairs.

Oh, come now. :p You know your faith is stronger than that. Chin up, and rethink what you're saying.
 
PantheraTigris2 said:
Oh, come now. :p You know your faith is stronger than that. Chin up, and rethink what you're saying.

I've always been skeptical of miracles. Why God would choose to intervene to save someone else's life but not mine or my grandfather's makes no sense to me. Personally, I beleive God created the universe and then sat back. I dont think you need to beleive in an active God to beleive in a good one.
 
Are miracles restricted to events that break the known physical laws of our universe, or can they be unexpected events that have a very low probability of happening? Do they have to be attributed to god?
 
there is no decline in miracles. People have just come to undestand & explain the previously unexplainable. A miracle ceases to be a miracle when someone explains exactly how it happened.

We'd still be having spectacular every day miracles, if only we didn't stop puting those damn smartarse heretics to death.
 
Marlos said:
God provides the miracles to those that believe! To unbelievers there shall be no signs.
That would be a rather useless waste of miracles.
 
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