Shiem - PryeZombie Way too good?

[giddion]

I have been enjoying playing illians, but every time I go against shiem they bring out the PryeZombies and well, they are so brutal.
They are like suicide bombers, but against illians they do extra damage.

1 Zombie can easily do 15-20% damage from exploding to all units in a stack.
3 PryeZombies is enough to weaken a stack of good units enough to be destroyed by even the weakest of warrior.

They need to be weakened. They should only have a % chance of exploding, not a guaranteed explode. Or have the amount of fire damage reduced based on the level and type of unit that is against them.

Playing with flexible difficulty always ends up as Deity by turn 150-200 on epic, so it is impossible to compete as illians against an endless supply of suicide zombies.

 

[Humakty]

Well, Deity level is not the best level to test balance of stuff : most of the time you'll get wipped clean by the AIs on this level. (I don't want to fight Tasunke on deity...)

I play monarch, so I don't see giant stacks of 60+ pyre zombies. At this lowish diff level, pyre zombies doesn't seem that hard to stop.

More about it : in my games, Sheaim almost never get a great empire, so I don't think their zombies are imba, as other AIs succeed in beating them.

A solution could be to let them get into your borders, and attack with units having 2 move (use haste), then retreat out of reach, rinse repeat. (best used with a solid road network) That way only 1 unit will suffer from the explosions.
Various spells can help recover (regen, courage) (as well as priest) between turns.

 

[Diamondeye]

We have several threads on PZs already, and yes, they are overpowered, and yes, it's on purpose, and no, they are not going to change them. Because all the civs in FfH are overpowered. Playing against Sheaim with Illians is definately a bad choice, so avoid them if possible.

 

[Humakty]

Well, if everything is overpowered, then nothing is.

 

[Diamondeye]

Well, if everything is overpowered, then nothing is.

I said every civ, not everything. All civs have their strengths and weaknesses. They are just so much more different than in normal civ. That is what makes FfH so flavourful, imho. Per example, Grigori adventurers are very powerful, but their ordinary units are not that good.

 

[Humakty]

Dragon slayers are far better than champions, but I agree with you on all the rest. Regular civ is so much flat and boring in comparison ! All praise Imba, Great God of Fun!

 

[Monkeyfinger]

The illians should be able to counter the AI's pyre zombies pretty well by spamming slow on megastacks on them, since the AI doesn't take mobility promotions on pyre zombies and splitting up a stack of pyre zombies such that they're within one tile of each other is... well, so stupid that even the AI knows better. So you're left with an immobile stack of zombies. (But hey, at least an immobile, unhurt stack of pyre zombies is daunting to attack. A split stack would be quite easy to destroy as the explosions rammed into each other.)

Playing with flexible difficulty always ends up as Deity by turn 150-200 on epic, so it is impossible to compete as illians against an endless supply of suicide zombies.

Increasing difficulty is the way to go if you want a somewhat sane rubberband mechanic. Flexible is totally messed up.

 

[WarKirby]

crown of brilliance got nerfed, and chalid's weapons got taken away, too. He's still an extremely powerful hero.

Anything being overpowered is a BAD thing. And the pyre zombies are that.

Not even level III spells like wither and snowfall, can kill (auric's version excepted). Yet pyre zombies, a tier II unit that requires only bronze working, No secial resources, and NO building requirements, can kill vast stacks of troops, because they have a stupidly overpowered explosion on death.

It needs reduced damage, and a damage cap, like EVERY OTHER SOURCE OF MAGICAL DAMAGE

Weakening one horribly powerful unit is not going to revert the game back to bland old vanilla civ. Overpoweredness of specific things is not what makes FFH fun.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Or have the amount of fire damage reduced based on the level and type of unit that is against them.

I would think this was in already, if it is like the other damage dealing spells. I could be wrong.

 

[Senethro]

90%Cap for PZ!

 

[Humakty]

Pyre zombies have a huge flaw : they can't be hasted, so they're doomed on the offensive, if you organize yourself a bit. Defensively they are a huge deterrent, I must agree.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

Had a thread and a poll not a week ago about this... Actually, if you scroll to the bottom of your page and then click on the number representing page 2 of the list of threads in the ffh forums, you will find a large discussion thread and a large poll thread about this very same subject which should cover all of your pyre zombie opinion needs. If you feel you need to continue the discussion, you should probably do it in one of the established threads. We don't need ten threads on the subject, especially since the 2nd page already has 2 large threads about it...

 

[Pike the Hands]

Two words: Destroy Undead. A few rounds of this will kill a stack any size and keep it from exploding, to boot.

 

[petepetepetep]

The answers are already in this thread, but I'll restate them: when you see the Sheaim, start training life mages asap. Put them into a stack, have them all cast destroy undead, and watch the zombies disappear. Meanwhile, yeah, maybe pyre zombies are broken. But it's nothing you can't work around.

 

[Honor]

The thing is, you probably don't have access to sorcery by the time Sheaim get their Pyre Zombies. Too bad, I guess

Tip of the day: Train horsemen instead

 

[Grey Fox]

Yeah cause sorcery comes after 3 relatively cheap techs. And Mages can be built without any buildings, and without any level requirement. :sarcasm off:

 

[Verily]

Life II: Destroy Undead

Bye-bye, Pyre Zombies.

 

[Methuselah]

For everyone who says "use life 2 to counter them", I have a question for you:

How would you expect the Khazad to counter them, seeming they don't get mages?

 

[PotatoOverdose]

For everyone who says "use life 2 to counter them", I have a question for you:

How would you expect the Khazad to counter them, seeming they don't get mages?

The same way you counter them before life 2? The ability to move more then 3 tiles per turn (achieved through body 1, mobility 1, roads, etc.), collateral damage with cats (or trebuchet in the case of the khazad), stackbusters in general (Av priests, OO priests, chalid, Gibbon). Also, remember that by the time your enemy will have amassed a large quantity of PZ's, both you and your enemy would have advanced in terms of tech, and more options would be available. But seriously, why not just go the second page and post/look in one of the two PZ threads that are just a few days old. Or better yet, post a request in the strategy subforum for help in countering PZ's, because honestly, we're beating a dead horse here. Nothing new has been said in this thread that wasn't said in the other two .

 

[xilr]

Why are there so many threads about Pyre Zombies being "OP"? Are they comparing them to Axemen? Are these people looking at the entire race? Do these people even know the Sheaim just got a surprise nerf to summoner that no one even asked for a week or two ago? PZ's have been around as long as I can remember playing FfH2.... Its a problem now? Why? Do these people know how many other "omgpowerful" tactics there are in this game?

Perhaps FfH2 has gotten popular enough to draw in WoW players that have learned if you keep saying something is too strong in unison for long enough, the devs eventually give in.