Ship of the Line

[pandamancer]

I was wondering if this unit is worth building. If yes, what are the scenarios you can maximize it's potential?

 

[Kjotleik]

I was wondering if this unit is worth building. If yes, what are the scenarios you can maximize it's potential?

Well, they are slower than Frigates and Galleons (3 vs 4 in movement poinst (MPs)). But they get a +50% bonus D) against Frigates (both 8 strength). So IF you have a coastal city with a Drydock and a settled Great General, to get your Ship-of-the-Line up to Flanking I + Navigation I (for the +1 MP), you can include one or two in your invasion fleet to take care of enemy Frigates trying to stop you...

They can also be used as Frigate-hunters. Getting them to Navigation II will even make them faster (5 vs 4) than Frigates...

If you cannot get Navigation I on them, they are too slow to be useful as invaders, in my humble opinion. You could of course still build one or two and put them in the closest ports towards your enemy, hoping to take out stray Frigates he may send your way... but that's not really something I recommend. Can be done, though.



Yours Sincerely
Kjotleik of Norway

 

[Wegason]

Well on a map with lots of coasts, islands, and coastal cities it is useful to take out enemy frigates (+50% vs. Frigate) and it is more effective in bombarding city defenses (-12%/turn) whereas a frigate is (-8%).

Two Ships of the Line will eliminate 100% city defense in 4 turns, versus 6 turns for two Frigates, plus they will be better able to cope with any enemy frigates defending.

 

[Kjotleik]

Well on a map with lots of coasts, islands, and coastal cities it is useful to take out enemy frigates (+50% vs. Frigate) and it is more effective in bombarding city defenses (-12%/turn) whereas a frigate is (-8%).

Two Ships of the Line will eliminate 100% city defense in 4 turns, versus 6 turns for two Frigates, plus they will be better able to cope with any enemy frigates defending.

I agree with your conclusion that they are useful against Frigates. But not that they are more effective in bombarding city defenses.

One Ship-of-the-Line is 120 , while a Frigate is 90 . This means that for the price of 360 you get either three Ships-of-the-Line or four Frigates. As 4 x 8 = 32 and 3 x 12 = 36, you don't really get that great an advantage in bombarding power per spent producing your fleet.

Ships-of-the-Line are special single-purpose ships with only ONE thing they do good... attacking (or defending against) Frigates. No bonuses against other ships, so attacking Caravels, Galleons and Privateers a 90 Frigate is much better than a 120 Ship-of-the-Line.

Also, if you can get Navigation I on a Ship-of-the-Line... you could also get Combat II on a Frigate. So, the question remains: Is it better with three Navigation I Ships-of-the-Line or four Combat II Frigates - against enemy Frigates?

You could of course promote your Ships-of-the-Line with Combat II. But then they would be too slow to hunt Frigates (3 vs 4 movement).



Yours Sincerely
Kjotleik of Norway

 

[capnvonbaron]

Or, while the AI is busy prioritizing crap techs like mil.sci, you can prioritize combustion and create destroyers to utterly maul the enemy frigates....

 

[enKage]

I dont even remember building it, there are more useful techs to get before and SOTL can be useful only with circumnavigating bonus to chase frigates

 

[vranasm]

Or, while the AI is busy prioritizing crap techs like mil.sci, you can prioritize combustion and create destroyers to utterly maul the enemy frigates....

mil. sci. is not that bad tech actually, but you are not getting it for SoTL I give you that...

 

[Seraiel]

SotL = best ship to guard your Galleons which are doing overseas invasions.

 

[Izuul]

I remember using them in one game a number of months back. I think it was an IU Wang Kong game. There were a fairly large number of continents in that game, and i was trying to invade Mehmed who was alone on a fairly large one. Being the unit spammer he is, he had about eleventy billion frigates in the water and i was trying to ferry like 70 troops across to him and only had enough galleons to move half at a time.

 

[pandamancer]

Recently I was checking the bombard ability of each siege, naval and air units.

How come in the Civilopedia, units like Ship of the Line and Frigate has the "ignore walls and castles" buff while later units like artillery, destroyer, battleship or bomber don't mention it?

Can anyone explain this? Or they just missed it out?

If both naval units get this buff then it would be a great idea to build them in taking coastal cities!

 

[Robert FIN]

*looks at Pandamancer's avatar*....*looks at Wegason's avatar* !! Why is CFC full of Sea Captains talking of Ships of the Line ? Just kidding ! Seriously, I quess that they are made to protect your galleon armadas getting sunk by enemy frigates while doing intercontinental invasions. Go ahead and play IU 101 A.K.A Mare Nostrum Challenge. SotL will be useful there.

 

[Ghpstage]

Recently I was checking the bombard ability of each siege, naval and air units.

How come in the Civilopedia, units like Ship of the Line and Frigate has the "ignore walls and castles" buff while later units like artillery, destroyer, battleship or bomber don't mention it?

Can anyone explain this? Or they just missed it out?

If both naval units get this buff then it would be a great idea to build them in taking coastal cities!

The civilopedia mentions nothing about SoTLs or Frigates ignoring walls either, the only mention of anything ignoring walls is in the walls desctription itself, which states,

50% defense (except vs gunpowder based units)
-50% to defense from bombardment (except vs gunpowder based units)

The term 'gunpowder based' effectively refers to any unit which would use gunpowder weapons, (though technically it comes from an ignores walls tickbox in the xml)

As of the patch that finally fixed Conquistadors in BTS, every combat unit ingame that follows Astronomy or Gunpowder ignores walls, with the sole exception of Privateers, a minor oversight which isn't really relevant for anyway!

 

[pandamancer]

Hi Ghpstage,

I think I found the information about the ignore wall/castle buff here for SotL: http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Ship_of_the_Line_(Civ4)

Here is the one for artillery not mentioning the buff: http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Artillery_(unit)_(Civ4)

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Privateers don't bombard or attack cities. That must be the reason they don't give the buff.

 

[Ghpstage]

Hi Ghpstage,

I think I found the information about the ignore wall/castle buff here for SotL: http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Ship_of_the_Line_(Civ4)

Here is the one for artillery not mentioning the buff: http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Artillery_(unit)_(Civ4)

Thats a wiki not the civilopedia! and the linked articles are empty

Privateers don't bombard or attack cities. That must be the reason they don't give the buff.

I suspect the reason is because they forgot to do it when they made BTS, after all they did exactly that when they moved Conquistadors from Knights to Cuirassiers, galleons ignore walls and castle defences too, as do machine guns and transports. Unlike with Conqs though, there isn't a great need to fix it.

 

[pandamancer]

Thats a wiki not the civilopedia! and the linked articles are empty

Eh? The links are indeed broken. Here try this instead:

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Ship_of_the_Line_(Civ4)

and here is the link for artillery without "the ignore city walls":

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Artillery_(unit)_(Civ4)

Hmm... and now wiki says the artillery cannot attack amphibiously (not in civilopedia). That's intriguing!

It kind of sucks because the civilopedia does not document everything (commerce vs gold, drill mechanics). So when the wiki tells some additional buff, I feel curious to test it out.