Ship Units
- Thread starter Houman
- Start date
Psycadelic_Magi
Hippie/Philosopher/Peanut
Hmm a unit to replace the trireme for most civs would be good, I dunno like a "war galley" or something like that; and have the trireme as a UU/flavour unit for the mediteranean civs it was used by ie the greeks, romans, carthaginians, egyptians (some turkish civs might have used them too i dont know) etc
imo in a normal research tree progress; you should first get battleships before destroyers: battleships ruled the seas during the first ww1
destroyers gradualy became more and more important during ww2 because of submarine and aircraft defense. (which also made carriers replace battleships as kings of ocean). to get destroyers; you should first research something like electronics.
so I d say make destroyers still weaker than battleships; but give them good defence against subs and aircraft (and maybe give battleships a weakness against them); so you d need them in a stack to guard your battleships. And later on your carriers.
according to my view of naval warfare; this should be the upgrade path: privateer/corsair to ship of the line to ironclad ( if it should still be in the game) dreadnought to battleship to carrier (and give the aircraft a serious bombard fuction)
war galley to caravel to galleon to frigate s (weaker than ship of the line; but more movement, and also a bit later in normal game progress) to iron frigates to destroyers, ...
also I think; all ships except for ironclads and subs should be able to transport landunits (certainly frigates and ship of the line). This should solve the issue of having to use galleons as transports in the industrial age. (they were smaller than ship of the lines and even frigates; so shouldn't have more cargo capacity).
military transports should just be able to transport more ... and maybe give an amphibious promotion on landing its units.
i must say; im not yet in the later part of the game; so some thoughts may allready be in it... (in that case, sorry if you read al this)
I just love them battleboats ...
greets
Ps: a bombard function for battleships is a no brainer and multiple attacs might be fun, but I think earlier ships (maybe from ship of the line) should be able to destroy city fortifications; but not bombard other units (land or naval).
destroyers gradualy became more and more important during ww2 because of submarine and aircraft defense. (which also made carriers replace battleships as kings of ocean). to get destroyers; you should first research something like electronics.
so I d say make destroyers still weaker than battleships; but give them good defence against subs and aircraft (and maybe give battleships a weakness against them); so you d need them in a stack to guard your battleships. And later on your carriers.
according to my view of naval warfare; this should be the upgrade path: privateer/corsair to ship of the line to ironclad ( if it should still be in the game) dreadnought to battleship to carrier (and give the aircraft a serious bombard fuction)
war galley to caravel to galleon to frigate s (weaker than ship of the line; but more movement, and also a bit later in normal game progress) to iron frigates to destroyers, ...
also I think; all ships except for ironclads and subs should be able to transport landunits (certainly frigates and ship of the line). This should solve the issue of having to use galleons as transports in the industrial age. (they were smaller than ship of the lines and even frigates; so shouldn't have more cargo capacity).
military transports should just be able to transport more ... and maybe give an amphibious promotion on landing its units.
i must say; im not yet in the later part of the game; so some thoughts may allready be in it... (in that case, sorry if you read al this)
I just love them battleboats ...
greets
Ps: a bombard function for battleships is a no brainer and multiple attacs might be fun, but I think earlier ships (maybe from ship of the line) should be able to destroy city fortifications; but not bombard other units (land or naval).
First "destroyers" were actualy called "counter torpedo boats" and their role was to provide cover for battleships (which were less maneuverable, and slower) from small tape torpedo boats (higly maneuverable, and fast).
You should get Destroyers and Battleships about the same time (same tech ?) First destroyers were built in the 1900s, just like first "real" battleships (no need for electronics). During the WW1 they played more or less the same role as in WW2 (convoying, sub hunting)
As to giving every ship the ability to transport units is too much IMO.. Ships of the line were much bigger then galeons, but their crew consisted of 10 times the number of ppl then the galeons.. (HMS Victory was complimented by 850 ppl) There realy wasnt much room in a war ship, wheter it was a frigate, a brigg, sloop, or ship of the line).. Supplies, guns and crew took up all of the space..
Old decomissioned ships were being striped out of their guns, and were transformed to transports.. Maybe it could be relfected by an option to upgrade(degrade) a frigate/ship of the line to a transport.. The ship would loose 1 movement point, and half the str.. A frigate would be able to carry 3 units, ship of the line 4.. And to relfect that you are actualy taking stuuf from the ship you could get some gold from doing it or some hammers in the city in witch you do the "upgrade" in (however this could be exploited for rushing building in that city).
You should get Destroyers and Battleships about the same time (same tech ?) First destroyers were built in the 1900s, just like first "real" battleships (no need for electronics). During the WW1 they played more or less the same role as in WW2 (convoying, sub hunting)
As to giving every ship the ability to transport units is too much IMO.. Ships of the line were much bigger then galeons, but their crew consisted of 10 times the number of ppl then the galeons.. (HMS Victory was complimented by 850 ppl) There realy wasnt much room in a war ship, wheter it was a frigate, a brigg, sloop, or ship of the line).. Supplies, guns and crew took up all of the space..
Old decomissioned ships were being striped out of their guns, and were transformed to transports.. Maybe it could be relfected by an option to upgrade(degrade) a frigate/ship of the line to a transport.. The ship would loose 1 movement point, and half the str.. A frigate would be able to carry 3 units, ship of the line 4.. And to relfect that you are actualy taking stuuf from the ship you could get some gold from doing it or some hammers in the city in witch you do the "upgrade" in (however this could be exploited for rushing building in that city).
Well they each had a complement of marines on board; so i figured ...
they might indeed be considered part of the crew, and not big enough to be a civ landunit ...
valid idea;
but maybe it s easier to ad a new shiptype to represent this ?
( hum; is there a maximum number of unit types in civ4?
)indeed they had a marines squad on board, but for any greater action to be taken on land, a few ships had to order their marines to form a landing party.. (I would love to see this represented in TR.. 
) but if a new marine unit was to be introduced it would be hard to represent the fact that there wasnt many of them (making them week would make them useless).
Making a new ship type would do the trick just fine, but its all bout realism in here :]
(i dont suppose that there is a limit to unit capacity for CIV)
) but if a new marine unit was to be introduced it would be hard to represent the fact that there wasnt many of them (making them week would make them useless). Making a new ship type would do the trick just fine, but its all bout realism in here :]
(i dont suppose that there is a limit to unit capacity for CIV)
Spartan117
Immortal
wow, a new ship of the line units, created by rabbit white
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4642703#post4642703
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4642703#post4642703
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Spartan117 said:
Yeap, i have yet seen it. Great, no ?
The Frog.
Spartan117
Immortal
oh yeah
another great addition
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=189461
different types of galleys.
another great addition
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=189461
different types of galleys.
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Spartan117 said:
Mmmm, Nice.
Ask Houman to have a look on these galleys and SoL.
The Frog.
Houman
TR Team Leader
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2002
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- 1,083
Yeah they look good and can be implemented. A new UU for Vokings as well I suppose. Are their ships already made? Dragon ships I mean? Because Galley isn;t correct for Vikings as UU right? NOt sure though...
About Ship of Line, we already have a ship of line. As far as I know it is for everyone, so should this ship better replace the old model? I guess so right? Because we did the sam ething with the new zeppelin...
About Ship of Line, we already have a ship of line. As far as I know it is for everyone, so should this ship better replace the old model? I guess so right? Because we did the sam ething with the new zeppelin...
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Houman said:
Houman,
In fact, Vikings were using two majors kinds of boats: Drakkars ans Snakkars. (French names of these boats). Nevertheless, adding the drakkar would be very realistic. These boats and their crew were so feared by common pop of western countries....
The Frog.
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
@ Hian the Frog
I heared only of Longboats and Dragonboats/dragonships.
But you might be right (maybe not names) as Vikings just loved raping french woman, stealing french wine, burning french houses...In school you might lear more about that. In Poland it was a bit more than just mentioned. We were rewiewing and repeating Polish history 4 times... Ancient age only 2 times, French revolution i had only once (in earlier classes it was just mentioned, but even year of it was not spoken of). Why i wasnt born back than ??? Ow no CivIV was there...
Maybe my lack of knowlage of French history is also reason for my "-4 you are citzen of my most hatred nation"
Might you ckeck Wikipedia about this ? I already made 10 savegames to help kill diplomacy CTD.
I heared only of Longboats and Dragonboats/dragonships.
But you might be right (maybe not names
) as Vikings just loved raping french woman, stealing french wine, burning french houses...In school you might lear more about that. In Poland it was a bit more than just mentioned. We were rewiewing and repeating Polish history 4 times... Ancient age only 2 times, French revolution i had only once (in earlier classes it was just mentioned, but even year of it was not spoken of). Why i wasnt born back than ??? Ow no CivIV was there...Maybe my lack of knowlage of French history is also reason for my "-4 you are citzen of my most hatred nation"
Might you ckeck Wikipedia about this ? I already made 10 savegames to help kill diplomacy CTD.
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
@ Anaztazioch
Vikings were dangerous on ALL known seas and rivers of that time (around 750-1000). Swedish vikings went eastward and conquered (not always with violent but trade) most of todays Russia. The first "Russian" dynasty (the Rurikovitch) came from Rukik, a viking leader.
In western Europe, Danish and Norwegians vikings were deeply violent. They attacked, pillaged, burned, killed,... in all British Isles, France, Germany, low countries and even.... Spain, Portugal and Morocco. They besiedge Paris with around 700 drakkars but never took the inner city (protected by the river Seine and walls). Slowly, they took lands on many coasts of these countries, and built or rebuilt cities. In France for exemple, a treaty with the King in 911, gave them vast territories and the title of Duke of Normandy ( in old French Duke of the North Men). This province still have this name more than 1000 years after their coming. In fact, this King made the real good political choice: giving them lands, titles in exchange of protection against other vikings.... and it worked well !!! There was no more big invasion after 920, only some minor raids.
Today, sometimes some Drakkars are still unearthed by archeologists along the River Seine, as weapons, shields and stuff they had pillaged.
About TR: it would be very logical to add a real specail boat to viking. They were great Mariners. They went to Iceland, Greenland and North America to the west, they travel to constantinople to the south and went on all the major Russian rivers....
The Frog.
Vikings were dangerous on ALL known seas and rivers of that time (around 750-1000). Swedish vikings went eastward and conquered (not always with violent but trade) most of todays Russia. The first "Russian" dynasty (the Rurikovitch) came from Rukik, a viking leader.
In western Europe, Danish and Norwegians vikings were deeply violent. They attacked, pillaged, burned, killed,... in all British Isles, France, Germany, low countries and even.... Spain, Portugal and Morocco. They besiedge Paris with around 700 drakkars but never took the inner city (protected by the river Seine and walls). Slowly, they took lands on many coasts of these countries, and built or rebuilt cities. In France for exemple, a treaty with the King in 911, gave them vast territories and the title of Duke of Normandy ( in old French Duke of the North Men). This province still have this name more than 1000 years after their coming. In fact, this King made the real good political choice: giving them lands, titles in exchange of protection against other vikings.... and it worked well !!! There was no more big invasion after 920, only some minor raids.
Today, sometimes some Drakkars are still unearthed by archeologists along the River Seine, as weapons, shields and stuff they had pillaged.
About TR: it would be very logical to add a real specail boat to viking. They were great Mariners. They went to Iceland, Greenland and North America to the west, they travel to constantinople to the south and went on all the major Russian rivers....
The Frog.
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
New ship to Vikings.
Not only it should be implanted, but it should dubble pillage profit. What you say ? As navy can pillage only fishing boats and whaling boats, giving 200% profit, would be great, but not disballancing. Also make it carry more troops or something (to make Berserkers even stronger, as they are weaker than other knights. Only amphibeus that gives +10% str makes them more ballanced)
Not only it should be implanted, but it should dubble pillage profit. What you say ? As navy can pillage only fishing boats and whaling boats, giving 200% profit, would be great, but not disballancing. Also make it carry more troops or something (to make Berserkers even stronger, as they are weaker than other knights. Only amphibeus that gives +10% str makes them more ballanced)
hey guys; I agree the vikings should have a uu ship called drakkar (as far as I know this is not only their French name; but also swedish ...). cause they were revolutionairy ships for the age: able to go deep inland on rivers; aswel as cross oceans (to greenland and maybe even canada ...)
but I think the vanilla model of galley s is in fact a viking ship: a gally with hi bow and stern; dragon head (hence the name drakkar, i believe) row of shields and a square sail. So if somebody were to make a new model it should be for a galley; as for the other nations, I don't know what it should look like though; maybe something like a big raft ? or a big canoe?
maybe you can give all units attacking from a drakkar some temporary amphibious bonus (as I think Anaztazioch said ?)
greets
but I think the vanilla model of galley s is in fact a viking ship: a gally with hi bow and stern; dragon head (hence the name drakkar, i believe) row of shields and a square sail. So if somebody were to make a new model it should be for a galley; as for the other nations, I don't know what it should look like though; maybe something like a big raft ? or a big canoe?
maybe you can give all units attacking from a drakkar some temporary amphibious bonus (as I think Anaztazioch said ?)
greets
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/68/Vikings02.jpg/180px-Vikings02.jpg
This is a photo of Drakkar. Looks like Civ IV galley for me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longship for intrested.
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drakkar for noid
Check Types of Ships section.
This is a photo of Drakkar. Looks like Civ IV galley for me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longship for intrested.
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drakkar for noid
Check Types of Ships section.
Did You saw maybe "crew" idea in ships implemented in FfHII ? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171398
This is a great idea. To equip ship with a special abbilities which can be changed in cities. There were (names more or less):
extra board crew: +1 strength, -1 speed
extra oarsmen: -1 cargo space, +1 speed
extra cargo: +1 cargo space, -1 speed
This ones can be used for old ships but we can think also about additions for modern ones:
extra cannons: +40% bombardment, -1 speed
anti aircraft: 30% chance of intercepting enemy aircraft, -1 cargo space
landing forces: +1 cargo space, -1 strength
etc.
What do you think of this?
This is a great idea. To equip ship with a special abbilities which can be changed in cities. There were (names more or less):
extra board crew: +1 strength, -1 speed
extra oarsmen: -1 cargo space, +1 speed
extra cargo: +1 cargo space, -1 speed
This ones can be used for old ships but we can think also about additions for modern ones:
extra cannons: +40% bombardment, -1 speed
anti aircraft: 30% chance of intercepting enemy aircraft, -1 cargo space
landing forces: +1 cargo space, -1 strength
etc.
What do you think of this?
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