Shipwrecks for the stubborn

[Thorrible]

Anyone ever see an AI ship sink because it's not in the right place? I haven't, yet when I make contact with other AI civs pre-Caravel, they will occasionally have rather developed settlements that are farther than three squares from shore. You know the type I'm talking about, they may not have any deep ocean between the continent and the island, but there's no feasible way to get a trireme there in three moves.

I am a stubborn dictator and will send several settlers and spearmen to their watery graves trying to colonize an island just out of reach of my triremes, but I have a gut feeling the AI rarely suffers from the same problem. I've seen this happen when the AI in question does not possess the Lighthouse.

 

[Daaraa]

The AI cheats and this is one of the ways it cheats. It just happens.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Depending upon what preferences you use, you can't tell if they sank or just moved on.

I've always thought though that since the AI knows most everything about the map, they might also know of the shortcuts that usually get found later.

 

[kring]

At high risk, I have sent Galleys across the Oceans and Seas. The Sinking rate is fairly fickle. I have had several Galleys end turn on Ocean and not sink; this was with only MapMaking as an Sea Tech, and no Lighthouse for me; the French beat me to it. The rate appeared to fluctuate between 100% sinking down to about 25% sinking, in this one game.

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by Daaraa
The AI cheats and this is one of the ways it cheats. It just happens.

Too bad.

I don't think ocean-going AI galleys teleporting themselves around the world benefits the game. No way.

 

[Immortal]

I lose ships less often then the computer does in my games. I really don't know what you guys are saying, I seem to have a 30% chance of surviving in tiles outside coastline.

 

[Kilroy]

It's funny because we get one of these idiot posts every week

RTFM

 

[Immortal]

kilroy, would you mind directing me to where in the manual it says "the computer cheats and makes it so the galleys don't sink so the computer can colonize faster"?

 

[Kilroy]

Originally posted by Immortal
kilroy, would you mind directing me to where in the manual it says "the computer cheats and makes it so the galleys don't sink so the computer can colonize faster"?

I can't seem to find that exact quote... but I'm sure that if you run a forum search you'll find that this exact topic comes up about once every week. Last time it came up, it seemed to have been resolved. Happy hunting!

 

[RX2000]

Yea, I remember reading this before. I'm not sure if there has actually been any word from Firaxis, but the general consensus seems to be that the AI's galleys can go anywhere, even before navigation. I think they should just improve how the AI works, instead of giving it the ability to cheat.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Kilroy:

not resolved, sorry! There is lots of instances where teleporting due to leave-right-now-demands is the reason, but there is others, too.

With 1.16, I once watched an AI Galley (thank god there was the multi-cheat) move across ocean for 6 tunrs w/o sinking, before anyone even had reached Middle Ages.

Now, I do see an incredible amount of AI settlements on island just out of reach. The replays often show them reaching the island very shortly after the approximate time Map Making was around - so no sinks? Or does the AI simply throw 8 Galley that way and two get through?????

Another thing is that the AI will often reach islands that they know of without loss. Just watched that in a game where i had Lighthouse and found the Greeks and then their Galley comes over and doesn't sink. Luck? I've seen it to often!


btw: there's a method to have fewer losses: rush a temple or two! This seems to lower the risk, but I don't know why.

 

[Alexnm]

btw: there's a method to have fewer losses: rush a temple or two! This seems to lower the risk, but I don't know why.

Why, the reason is clear: God helps them when they worship Him more...

 

[kring]

I do build Temples in all of my cities, so this has helped. I am glad to hear it, since I had one Islands game, where the nearest other civ was too far to get to by Coast early on. I sent about 6 Galley ships sailing across before all was said and done. Eventually, 4 succumbed to the deeps of Ocean and Sea, but with only 1 Settler team lost. I managed to populate 4 other islands this way, and meet all my neighbors.

 

[Black Waltz]

Can we say.. 'Who cares'? I don't give a damn if the computer cheats. The game would be too easy if it didn't. If you don't like the challange, play on Cheiftan.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Black Waltz:

I think most people are OK on AI cheat - but why can't we be told what they are??????? We were told that Regent was lewvel field - then we find that the AI-AI trade value is 120% - is that level????? If they said: OK, Regent's level, but the AI gets a slight advantage in trade because we can't get it to deal as smart as a human - do you think anyone would complain?????

Another thing is the free units the AI gets. I know about them, so even if they get them I can plan on them being there. now I find they get free units during the game - this changes all for me, because I need to factor them in! If I'd been told before, there would have been far fewer games where I try to take back a city and get frustrated because it isn't possible....

 

[kring]

Just to play advocate, if you knew what they were, it would be too easy to counter them.

Considering that a halfway intelligent person could come up with counters for anything the AI gets; most of the people I see posting are at least intelligent, if not above average in intelligence. Many of the things can be determined by playing using 1.17f or earlier with the multi. I used this (before upgrade to 1.21, knowing full well that I would lose the ability) to see if the AI would use any mods I created. I have found out that the AI will sometimes rush with a Great Leader, but usually build Armies first.

It would be nice to know, I agree. I, for one, would not sit down, and calculate things to ensure my winning at maximum points if I knew the AI used a certain cheat. While this is not something I would do, if others want to, go for it. I would much rather try out strategies in playing the game.

I don't let the AI's "cheating" or benefits hinder my enjoying the game. I may not always appreciate those advantages it has sometimes, though.

As Firaxis noted in a chat, the best way to get their attention is to NOT buy the game. If enough people DIDN'T buy the XP and were willing to write, email, call, fax, inform Firaxis as to the why(s) of the decision not to buy it, they would listen. Companies have been put out of business for not listening to their customers; note I am not advocating putting Firaxis out of business, just what happens when a company doesn't listen to the buying public.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by kring:

if you knew what they were, it would be too easy to counter them.

Yep it would. But right now I counter them by always bringing extra forces, always guessing and asuming..... It is extremely tedious to keep starting wars, to keep sacrifising Galleys and so on, just because there *might* be a cheat that can be countered by that......

 

[kring]

I Agree. While I wouldn't be one of those to max the info, I am not opposed to it being made available. That way, those who wanted to, could mod it however they wanted to.

 

[Willem]

Originally posted by kring
At high risk, I have sent Galleys across the Oceans and Seas. The Sinking rate is fairly fickle. I have had several Galleys end turn on Ocean and not sink; this was with only MapMaking as an Sea Tech, and no Lighthouse for me; the French beat me to it. The rate appeared to fluctuate between 100% sinking down to about 25% sinking, in this one game.

I believe you have a 50/50 chance of your ship not sinking.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Black Waltz:

Another thing is the free units the AI gets. I know about them, so even if they get them I can plan on them being there. now I find they get free units during the game - this changes all for me, because I need to factor them in! If I'd been told before, there would have been far fewer games where I try to take back a city and get frustrated because it isn't possible....

When does the AI get free units during a game that we players don't get? I'd be curious about that one!

Whenever a city flips, you get the best defender possible in that city. I generally have a 10-1 ratio of flips to me, so it's not a problem

Bill