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Short fun game (immortal)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by shyuhe, Dec 7, 2009.

  1. babybluepants

    babybluepants Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    Hmmm.... Barbs ain't quite so weenie after all? Would we need archery now? I don't think we need to rush the horse site, btw, since Moscow borders will pop about the same time we plant the city.

    I was somehow expecting St. Pete to be on the PH 1NE - grabs more territory, better defence on the border and extra hammer... Oh, well, we didn't discuss it and it's a good city either way... I think we need to expand into the jungle fast. Given Churchill's position, we might be able to block off a whack of land in the NW... Bismarck doesn't have his third city down yet. Stone should be safe for a while, I think.

    I'll look at the save tonight and post a plan for discussion.
     
  2. Silu

    Silu Chieftain

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    It will take ages for Moscow to acquire those Horses via culture (third ring online already). No need for Archery IMO, Chariots are fine and we'll get them fast enough. Quick doesn't only nerf barb spawning rate, it also does what it does to all warfare - it's easier to react, garrison and fortify invasion spots through "faster" production.

    About St Pete's position, well, I wasn't sure if I should ask confirmation. My reasoning:
    - more prod (though now there's a hill visible in the fog which would make it pretty much equal
    - no immediate use for mass dry grass with the cottage restriction
    - makes use of the desert tile it's on
    - benefits from Moscow's third ring pop
    - benefits from FPs that could be awkward/slow utilize otherwise
    - 1NE would be absolutely useless before border pop and popping would be slow
    - 1NE would have been delayed by multiple turns because of moving and barbs - not good in Quick

    Yeah, I know one could make a similar list of pros for 1NE :)

    EDIT: Yeah there's probably a good chance to block off a decent chunk with a jungle city or two. St. Pete's Pig is a prime candidate for overlapping so a Pig/Ivory blocker could be in the cards after we get the Horsie online.
     
  3. babybluepants

    babybluepants Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    Border pop happened already? I guess it's only 50c (makes sense with legendary at 1/2 normal-speed) - I assumed 2/3 timeline off the top of my head... That means horse site next, like you said.

    Yeah. Either is obviously a good city, no point debating now. :)
     
  4. shyuhe

    shyuhe Chieftain

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    Yeah, I thought about St. P 1NE s well. It's fine in its current location as it gets more food sources and can work more hills too. It's a strong city either way.

    Agree on the jungle - do we want to consider early IW? The gem/ivory site is very nice as a 4th or 5th city. I think #3 should go to get the horses.
     
  5. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Hi team :hatsoff:

    haven't look at the save yet... but it's look good from the report. I don't mind St petersburg position either, both sites were good...
    Who is up Shyuhe? ( my way of training our future OSS captain :p :whipped:)

    Ras

    edit: IW: I'd rather have that in trade... we have plenty of good tiles to work while waiting for our trade opening tech :)
     
  6. babybluepants

    babybluepants Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    ^ I think I'm up. :) Agree on IW - trade later.

    What do you guys think of going Writing instead of Myst, or even Pottery / Writing? We can delay St. Pete's border pop slightly, since it has 2 FP's, and don't need an immediate pop in the third city. If we do end up REX-ing north, we might need to crash pretty bad, so libraries up would be good for grinding through a post-Writing tech. (Early cottages in Moscow will, too).
    EDIT: On second thought, there's probably no need to skip Myst. We can get all of these techs pretty quickly anyway.

    I think we need another worker asap. I see the following as near-immediate needs: road gold, road towards horse, farm St. Pete's FP, road back to Moscow for TR, pasture horse, camp ivory. When and where do we build it? Moscow could do it in 4t after growth, but we also need a settler asap.
     
  7. shyuhe

    shyuhe Chieftain

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    me (on deck)
    Ras
    mysty (skipped)
    Silu just played
    bbp - UP

    We have gold so first tier techs are pretty quick. We should get another settler for the horses before another worker I think.
     
  8. Silu

    Silu Chieftain

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    You can't crash with a capital Gold man ;) Which also makes techs like Mysti very fast so I'd rather go that. If we go cottages semi-soon our capital could support 20 cities by itself already :lol:

    And yeah IW can be postponed IMO. Our trade-opener tech will also be accelerated due to the Gold.

    BTW I'm not sure if I'd like to forfeit that Wheat site so easily. There's no guarantee we can trade for Wheat later and missing a grain hurts a lot with our hard health situation. With the Gold it would easily pay for itself also. It's a candidate for a 4th city if it's still available IMO. Churchill won't trudge through that jungle that fast.

    For worker, we can build one in St Pete at size2 maybe, and another in capital after the Horse Settler, can't postpone that IMO.
     
  9. shyuhe

    shyuhe Chieftain

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    Agreed, we'll need the worker after we get horses online. I think the gold can wait roading since we're not :) capped right now. I think the turns spent roading towards the horse would be better spent.
     
  10. babybluepants

    babybluepants Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    I think:

    Moscow - grow to 4 producing 2 more warriors, 2-pop whip a settler (this should be done in 6t), then re-grow to 4, building a couple of more warriors (or maybe barracks first?)

    St. Pete - not sure. I'm wondering if we need to worry about Bismarck planting a city to contend for corn soon - hence fast border pop, or if we can afford to just build another worker as soon as pop 2 + warrior done.

    Worker - if we pop-rush a settler, we can settle Novgorod at Silu's proposed site in 9t. I think we should farm the FP SSW of St. Pete, then road 1SE of horse, then road + pasture horse (question - this will give us horse in Moscow, correct? I'm a bit stupid with river routes).

    Scout: hug the coast to Churchill, hang a left into jungle when possible (reasonably safe).

    We'll have only 2 warriors near St. Pete for the next few turns. Moscow won't need MP, as the whip anger is wearing off before growth. I'd like to send the next warrior out to the horse site to spawnbust.

    @Silu, don't really need to give up on wheat yet. We can review it later.
     
  11. Silu

    Silu Chieftain

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    Yeah that should give Horse in Moscow... Everything sounds good. I think we can skip border until the worker is done in St Petes. Roading, farming and later cottaging (in Moscow) that FP will take a lot of worker turns, we need to get more workers online. No way Bismarck will contend that fast for the Corn (again, Quick helps here).
     
  12. shyuhe

    shyuhe Chieftain

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    I agree that Bismarck shouldn't be able to get corn that fast. And we can always rush a monument if we need to fight for the tile (first to pop borders will probably win). I would build a barracks after whipping the settler. Might as well.

    Tech-wise, what are we thinking? Mysticism--pottery--writing? Then we may be able to build a granary in Moscow after whipping the settler (not sure if the timing works out).
     
  13. babybluepants

    babybluepants Chieftain GOTM Staff

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  14. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    I agree with going with the horse site next. We lack exploration in the jungle north of St Pet. We need to do that now imo as city 4 should go there near the ivory to prevent Churchill to steal the western coast. I seem to not be on the same page than the team for this city (number four), but imo one health is one thing, being blocked by immortal AIs to 5 cities is another ...

    St Pet: growth in 4 turns, myst in 3... perfect set up for a monument whip. I fear like BBP that AIs would mess up with our resources... we need culture more than anything else there.

    techs: myst -> pot -> writing has my vote :)

    Agree on BBP's worker micro... we should build one in Moscow between settler 2 and settler 3, maybe another one in St Pet after its whip?
     
  15. babybluepants

    babybluepants Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    I think we're all agreed that we'll most likely rush a fourth city somewhere in the vicinity of that ivory, but I think we can evaluate it after some more exploration, with a better idea of where Churchill is sitting and how fast he's expanding. Exploration is an issue, IMO, since the current warriors need to defend the core. Hopefully, the scout doesn't die before circling back to the ivory, but it might need to waste a bunch of turns dodging barbs.

    EDIT: Emphasis added, for Silu's sake. :D
     
  16. Silu

    Silu Chieftain

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    Well I slightly tried to discuss the 4th site in light of getting the Wheat... Health will be precious and there's no guarantee (IIRC, don't remember if Biz has a second visible Wheat) that we can trade for Wheat. In my experience it's the hardest grain to acquire. Along with having a Gold I wasn't sure why we abandoned that site so quickly.

    It's probably best to go in the jungle with the 4th one still, though :p

    Agree 100% about tech path and other things... You need to take extra care with the Scout, in addition to the 2 visible Archers there's a barb warrior further southeast-ish of them.
     
  17. babybluepants

    babybluepants Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    Doesn't sound like we have an agreement on St. Pete builds. I think I'll test out some sequences before I play. RRRaskolnikov's for monument, Silu and shyuhe for worker, it seems. I'm not entirely sure, but leaning worker. Since monument is an easy 1-pop whip, I agree with shyuhe that it can be done in an emergency if AI's settle for our resources.
     
  18. shyuhe

    shyuhe Chieftain

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    Unirrigated corn is a decent tile, but St. P has 2 FP it can work already. That's why I'd prefer to improve those tiles first - and we need more workers for that. I think we'll need more workers than usual because they're inefficient at quick speed.

    I would prefer #4 near the wheat personally but I think I'm in the minority for that...
     
  19. Silu

    Silu Chieftain

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    Well, same for me kinda, one of the main reasons I was starting to like the jungle plan was that I thought everyone else thought it was best :) IMO the site is much better short term and also in bigger danger of being lost to AI while supplying the all-important health in the long-term.

    So now it's 2-2 (?) with one abstaining so far.
     
  20. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    St pet: maybe you are right... Churchill can settle the corn in first ring even if we pop borders... Only way to keep it for sure is a double border pop... so warrior -> worker -> whip -> overflow into monument?

    fourth city: I suggest we decide after next set... so we have a chance to play soon :lol: (now I remember this was supposed to be a short quickie :mischief:)

    @Silu: why we abandonned wheat site as city two (and why I wouldn't bother): I think most important thing for a city is food, not gold (more so when you have another one, the tile is not riverside...and on desert!). This city is crap food wise. It brings nice resources in, but that's about it. A good site grabbing that wheat would have been on the wine (yeah! :D) south west of Hamburg... Let's imagine we still settle it soon: we farm the wheat, then work the gold size two... and after what? there is one grassland no irragable before CS (cottage :goodjob:), and a grass mine.
    Sum up: the city is more likely to piss off german, the city has three (3!) average tiles, rest is junk... St Pet is much much better :) I generally settle stuff like this only in desesperate need of a strategic resource...

    Ras :scan:
     

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