Should the Baray be +2 food?

[Quotey]

The Baray is the Khmer Aqueduct- +2 +1. The +1 food will likely be the only reason to build a Baray, unless you are facing a fairly large pop- Suryavarman is Expansive. The Baray would see more use if it was +2 food.

This would, of course mean that the Baray would give a 'free' specialist, but at one per city, it won't be that bad.

Khmer really deserves a boost- Exp/Cre are generally seen as bad traits (please don't debate this- Exp is decentish because of the buildings, not the health bonus) and a fairly rubbish UU (unless in multiplayer). The only thing the Khmer have going for them is nice building art, and an awesome cultural border colour. And you don't need to see Sury if you play as Khmer.

I suppose 6 beakers per city from the UB could be overpowered (with Rep), but you could cut the Health bonus entirely- I think I'll mod this into the game, does anyone known if this is possible through the XML?

 

[absimiliard]

Actually, since I don't have to see Freaky Yellow Martian Dude if I play the Khmer I'd say you need to reduce the +1 Food to just a normal aqueduct. That might possibly make up for the massive benefit that never having to deal w. him in the diplomacy screen represents......

Okay, seriously, +2 food is basically a specialist for every city. I'd say that's a little too powerful. Though given the sucky UU I could see an argument for increasing the power of the UB in some way.

-abs

 

[brades]

creative is an awesome trait. No wasted hammers on monuments and the such, as well as cheap libraries and you can plop cities on your border and start taking land immediately. Ever notice how creative leaders are so annoying to play against? Like survavyrman, who almost always is near the top of the leader board when I get him.

 

[madscientist]

I like the Baray as it is but perhaps it could be considered a very early supermarket also allowing the +1 health for meat in addition to the +1 food. Similar to the Summerian ZIggarats.

 

[popejubal]

In a city with no food resources (common across your empire since you can't count on food resources everywhere), you will start with a food surplus of 2 food per turn as long as you are working all Grasslands or Windmilled Grassland Hills.

The Baray turns that into 3 food per turn. That's a 50% increase in the city's rate of growth.

Imagine you need to work a mined grassland hill for some reason (perhaps you'd like to build a unit or a building in under 500 turns). You now have a 1 food per turn surplus without the Baray. With the Baray, you get a 100% increase in the city's growth rate.

The Baray won't do a tremendous amount for a city with low production and lots of food. It will do absolutely amazing things for a city that doesn't have a lot of surplus food (i.e. most cities in your empire that aren't a GP farm).

 

[xanadux]

+1 food is a bigger bonus than you think. For a production city, it allows an extra grassland hill mine to be worked without a farm to support it. For a commerce city, the same with a plains cottage. And it supports half a specialist and makes the city grow more quickly.

To say you wouldn't build an aqueduct anyway is wrong. As I have gotten better at Civ4, health is almost always more an issue than happiness ... happiness is easy to deal with. Health has much more limited means to deal with. The Baray is already one of the strongest UBs. +2 food would make it ridiculously strong.

 

[duende29]

+1f is a very good bonus. +2f would be like having a Statue of Liberty on Classical times

 

[King of Town]

I love the khmer. I have been playing them a lot lately. They can live in those jungles where the elephants are without growth problems at all. The UB is great.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Well, yeah, they did live in jungled areas, did they? And +1 food is a strong bonus.

You know who needs a boast? The HRE. Protectice and imperialistic are WIDELY considered to be the two weakest traits, and I say this with confidence. And their pikemen UU is equally pathetic. By the time you get engineering, everyone has curaissers.

 

[dragomaster]

the HRE have (maybe wrong speld) rasthaus (courthouse) with -75% upkeep cost. that's a great building, may be the best of all UB's and meening the same as having the orgenised trait. Oracel for CoL maybe

 

[Guardian_PL]

+1 is not a lot, true, and hammer cost of an aqueduct is pretty high unless running OR. If expansive would mean half price aqueducts then be my guest, but I wouldn't build aqueducts everywhere just for +1.

As for HRE You've got to be kidding sylvanllewelyn, only worry with HRE is to get stone for GWall/Mids/Henge/HGardens, and beeline Engineering for castles and lancknechts. Unless You play Immortal+ Pikes can still shine. UB is a killer, and Imperialistic helps. Spam settlers/axe stacks to take cities, build GW and "invite" opponents to visit Your borders for +400% GG points. After that, rest is history

 

[madscientist]

The aqueduct is a very expensive building for it's time I agree, but doesn't sema that bad when palying as the Ottomans for thsoe xtra 2 happiness.

Perhaps the UB should be reduced in hammer cost. Or make it an earl supermarket with the +1 health per livestock.

On a side note reagrding the HRE, not up to the UU era yet but Charlemange is pretty darned good. My current game I boxed in Al using faster settlers and have had him declare war 4 times already. Protective archers rule, and the city defense had gotten me several GGs already which I settled. Now up to building war elephants and ready to take big Al down and no problems keeping Greek cities with that UB (I say the best in the game). Protective and Imperialistic are weak trait, but together are pretty leathal.

 

[Martin79]

+1 is not a lot, true, and hammer cost of an aqueduct is pretty high unless running OR. If expansive would mean half price aqueducts then be my guest, but I wouldn't build aqueducts everywhere just for +1.

As for HRE You've got to be kidding sylvanllewelyn, only worry with HRE is to get stone for GWall/Mids/Henge/HGardens, and beeline Engineering for castles and lancknechts. Unless You play Immortal+ Pikes can still shine. UB is a killer, and Imperialistic helps. Spam settlers/axe stacks to take cities, build GW and "invite" opponents to visit Your borders for +400% GG points. After that, rest is history

I agree, HRE can be a very powerfull empire if you play your cards right.

 

[obsolete]

The Baray is the Khmer Aqueduct- +2 +1. The +1 food will likely be the only reason to build a Baray, unless you are facing a fairly large pop- Suryavarman is Expansive. The Baray would see more use if it was +2 food.

What!!?

Am I an IDIOT for building them even without +1 food?

 

[Martin79]

What!!?

Am I an IDIOT for building them even without +1 food?

As I always have health problems in my cities, I need this building anyways.

 

[madscientist]

Aqueducts always get built in my games, but usually post-factory to compensate for the massive pollution. The Baray should be built ASAP to leverage the UB's ability but cost's a pretty penny.

 

[xanadux]

Most good players address happiness early, and so health is usually the limiting factor. food is the most valuable of resources in the game, and in a well managed city, +1 food will quickly offset the cost of the Baray (which is really +3 food because of the +2 health). The aqueduct is a good building to start with, and not really expensive for its benefit. Giving it +50% from the +1 food makes it awesome.