shyuhe-5 - re-learning civ

[GreyFox]

I know Shyuhe says play 10-15 tuns, but he also says to "pick a good stopping point".

And how much did I play?

A whopping 5 turns

Why?

Not because of this ...

That is a joke ... does the computer seriously think that we would agree to such an outrageously silly suggestion?

However, this seems trouble ...

And it is:

I stopped here. My instinct tells me we should delay settling (instead build a galley and settle north), and switch to IW after pottery. The barb city is a fabulous spot, so we probably want to let it grow. while taking care not to allow Boudica to snatch it from under our nose.

 

[silverbullet]

I would say, settle the rice/sugar spot. You can share the corn with the capital (it doesn't need THAT much food, and you will eliminate this barb city with culture. Just make sure to whip an early monument and a library.

Alternatively, settle further south to block boudica, but this is crappy land (no visible food), so I would let her have it. Not worth the maintenance.

 

[PaulusIII]

Got the save (I'm up now, right?)

GreyFox put your advisor off. That should stop those BS messages of citizens wanting to join another empire.

We do want early IW now. Settling the jungle should be done with care, we do not get a bonus for settling there. Swords ought to take care of those archers there.

 

[shyuhe]

That barb city is rather unfortunate but it is definitely in a good location. Perhaps we do want to tech AH or IW so that we can capture it? I agree with GreyFox's suggestion that we settle a city on the northern island for now. The jungle won't be very useful until IW and I don't think there's that much of a hurry for land grabbing with that barb city location - we just have to make sure Boudica doesn't capture it.

I also think we should tech through writing first before IW as our capital will be able to run 2 scientists pretty much permanently after that. It'll speed up IW and also help sustain our economy.

Roster
GreyFox just played
Paulus III - UP
Corneh (on deck? We haven't heard from you in a while Corneh)
Ralph_Jackson
shyuhe

 

[PaulusIII]

Inherited turn: Like you expected, nothing happened.

IBT 69: Barbs kill our scout.

70: Pottery is in and I start on Writing. An Archer finishes, I start on a galley to settle the north.

IBT: Barbs attack our archer in the jungle...
and fail miserably.

71: Nothing happens.

IBT: Barbs again attack our archer in the jungle...
and fail, yet again.

74: Archer finishes in uMgungundlovu. I start on a granary.

75: Galley finishes in Ulundi, I start another. Settler/archer goes aboard.

77: The galley goees north again and this is where I quit. We need to discuss a position for the new settlement.

Please note that I've not settled a third city yet. Even with the settler already there our poor economy could really not afford any more.

Save attached.

 

[GreyFox]

Au contraire, settling the third coastal city nearby gives us additional trading routes which might actually boost the economy ... okay maybe not boost it, but definitely won't hurt it. Given the plain nature of the resource distribution, I would say settle at the southern tip of that one-tile peninsula, which is the closest to our capitol and still have 2 resources and a hill.

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[shyuhe]

I think we can settle the third city on the mainland after we settle on the island. All of our mainland cities will get 3 two coin trade routes so it should more than make up for maintenance. I also agree with GreyFox's suggestion that we settle on the southern tip. Having a plains hill will help it build necessary infra (namely a lighthouse). I imagine that island's just going to get populated with little fishing villages anyways - not much production coming out of it.

Roster
GreyFox
Paulus III just played
Corneh - UP
Ralph_Jackson (on deck)
shyuhe

 

[GreyFox]

I think it is quite clear Corneh is MIA ... Suggest Ralph get it.

 

[shyuhe]

Indeed, Ralph you're up.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

OK Got it, will have a look tonight and play tomorrow after posting any questions.

Ralph

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

OK I will play tomorrow but will change the current builds unless there are severe objections...

I am unconvinced by the 2nd Galley being built in our capital (we have a WB exploring already). An Ikhanda makes much more sense as it will complete before writing finishes (+100% for aggressive leaders) allowing us to whip in the library (overflow to WB for our first Isalnd city) in good time.
The Ikhanda not only boosts our power rating to keep Boobicca playing nice
+ we will need to produce troops to take Barbtown
+ the -20% maintenance is not to be sniffed at.

Similarly our second city has grown to its happy cap so again an Ikhanda is better than allowing it to complete its granary especially as we have wisely stagnated its growth to stay at Size 4. Following the Ikhanda again a library is the priority as we can’t yet take a monument and it needs a border pop to gain access to more riverside tiles as we have only have the option of a plain grass cottage at the moment.
Other than that
Writing, Library + geeks in capital -> IW because we need to see if we have Iron.

Normally I might pursue Aesthetics for its Trade Value which is superior to Alphabet in BTS but with only Boobica about tech trading is a long way off and Iron is more important.

Now if it seems I am drifting towards stating the bl**ding obvious it is only because this SG is “relearning CIV for Shyuhe” so laying out plans + reasons seems suitable!!

Now as the Fox wisley said when you have TGLH the first few coastal cities easily pay for theselves just from trade routes so actually boost research rates. This combined with our early mini courthouse mean Island rexxing will boost our research rate for the foreseeable future not harm it.

Ralph

 

[PaulusIII]

Ugh, I think it was just me being precautious since the barb galley BS of patch 3.17. For some reason I am ALWAYS short of defense and the one galley I have gets killed by the first barbs that come along, but you're free to change of course, I'm just being paranoid.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

So ever tried playing a set in an SG having just dislocated your right thumb on a dry ski slope ??? Well let me say it is a great way of reminding yourself of the keyboard shortcuts because mouse use becomes tricky!!

Anyway a quiet if rather painful set (but the only pain was forgetting to be careful when clicking!!)
Switched to the Ikhanda’s as discussed and settled our first Island city

Which immediately boosts the economy with the nice trade routes.

With writing in we sign OB and despite having said IW next I decide I need to slip in AH to see if we have horses which would let us tackle the Barb city with Chariots and because the new island has two sheep resource we want to Pasture.

Immediately start on Libraries which our whipped in when available.
Of course we find gee-gees in just the wrong place. If we were 1 tile further south they would be a nice little plot but are now two border pops await and we are battling Boudi’s culture for them as well!! Note she has finished the GW.

Our two archers had been doing some fog busting and boundary scouting and uncover two fish which predetermine where are our W coast fishing villages will be.

Was going to play to IW due in 3 to see if we ahve it but our GP pop made me stop and think. We have a GM who will bulb metal casting which has value if we want to go for the Colossus to enhance our fishing villages, or we could just settle him / trade mission him. Personally being non-financial I think Colossus is quite marginal and settling him feels best at the moment.

So EOT
IW in 3 and lets cross our fingers...(at 33 a turn our research rate is pretty healthy and Umug can add geeks if desired once it has grown back).
The wine at Umug has been cottaged as we are a way away from Monarchy.
WB being built for Nobamba in capital and then settler / forge colossus and then.
Our archers are keeping barb spawning contained but a couple more from Umug wouldn’t go amiss.

Southern WB has revealed nothing worth reporting!!

Ralph the left handed one finger typist

 

[shyuhe]

Nice set Ralph. Got it and will post some comments/questions later today. I definitely appreciate the detailed explanations though It makes me remember things that I had forgotten.

I haven't looked at the save yet but off the top of my head, settling the GM sounds like a better idea than bulbing or trade mission. We're not industrious so forges are expensive and we don't get any bonus from them.

Also, we're going to need a lot more workers than normal once we start settling the jungle. Although being expansive will really pay off here since they'll be cheaper.

And sorry to hear about your thumb! I hope it doesn't take too long to reset.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

I hope it doesn't take too long to reset.

I reset it myself there and then because its the only way; but the language was unrepeatable!!!

Ralph

 

[GreyFox]

I agree with settling the GM. It is far too soon to have a trade mission, so we are left with bulbing or settling. Considering there is no real benefit for MC (except for colossus, which is a tad too heavy without ind nor copper), and we have only met Boudica thus far, so MC as trading chip isn't that great, I think settling is best.

--

 

[shyuhe]

Well things are looking ok. I hope. I can't tell if Boudica has enough on her hands

Turn 91 - settle GM.

Turn 93 - IW is in. There are 2 on the northern island and one source to the south. I change production in Umug to rush a settler over to grab it (and to block off Boudica).

Turn 95 - Mysticism is in. I prepare to whip a monument in the northern city.

Turn 97 - Meditation is in. I planned the path towards monarchy as we'll need it soon to grow our cities bigger.

Turn 98 - Buddhism spreads!
I immediately revolt.

Turn 100 - priesthood is in. Research set to monarchy (only 9 turns!)

I have a settler in place to grab the southern iron next turn. There is another settler in the middle of the jungle - I think we should settle this one first to discourage Boudica from settling north. After that, we should build a bunch of fishing villages to boost our economy and to fill out the land that we have. Ulundi is amazingly fast at pumping out settlers - it only takes 5 or 6 turns right now. So I think we should put out a few more settlers to land grab before we crank out the workers to terraform all that jungle. Our research rate is holding up very well because of the GLH.

The question I have is, where in the jungle is the best spot? The settler hasn't moved yet so he can settle in place (which I think is the best spot both long-term and short-term). Feel free to disagree though

Roster
GreyFox - UP
Paulus III (on deck)
Corneh MIA
Ralph_Jackson
shyuhe just played

 

[GreyFox]

Got it.

I am not too sure abt the current settler spam though ... even though we have the GLH, it is only gonna help that much. Beyond 6 cities, the increase in upkeep is going hurt more than the trade routes can bring. Instead, we are in need of workers for chopping.

Having said that, I am okay with the current sites (both the iron site and the in jungle one).

Playing tomorrow.

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[shyuhe]

Well I'm worried that Boudica will plant cities in our backyard if we leave her unchecked. She's managed to acquire a lot of land since we've been hampered by the jungle. That being said, we will definitely need workers too. But since the two fishing villages will need monuments and workboats first, I think that'll give us time to build workers before they need to work land tiles.

 

[GreyFox]

Not a promising development ...

We settled both sites while I changed the settler to a worker:

Note our gpt dropped immediately from -5gpt to -12gpt, but research of Monarchy also increased from 4 turns to 3 turns. This is what I meant by the trading boost, for a handful number of cities, it is more helpful to economy as a whole to settle more cities. gpt and research slider is never the correct estimation of economy power ... instead, what is important is the beaker output + gpt. In this instance, we gained a bit by settling the two cities.

Well, immediately, those un-loyal subjects of Zulu yearned to join the greener pastures ...

Note that someone built the Colossus. Must have oracle'd the MC. So, even if we have wasted our GM on MC, we wouldn't have got a forge and colossus out as fast as this AI.

In kwaDukuza, I chopped a tree and slowed growth there to hasten the monument. We need it to fight the culture, plus we want iron on line as soon as possible. But I fear we may not be fast enough ...

Monarchy is in, we revolted, and I chose Maths next:

And as I feared, we lost the best spot in our part of land to Boudica:

In view of this, I suggest we continue with the settler (which I stopped in the beginning) and settle on the north of the ex-barb-now-celtic city, at the tile NE of the sugar and NW of the rice. It can use the corn in our capital to grow and pressurize Sakae to join our empire for a change.

Not all is lost, as we have another barb city up north. : eek:

Note also how fast Boudica has improved her research, at turn 111, she had 15 turns of alphabet, but at turn 113, it dropped to 5. The pillage money from the barb city must have helped. Also note the founding of ToA and Pyramids. One of them I suspect was built using a GE which was born a turn earlier (must also be the AI I mentioned earlier who had oracle'd MC and use the forge to get a GE).

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