Ralph_Jackson
Emperor
On Balance I am with Paulus in going for a Phony war versus HRE , as the MMS Diplo +'s are well worthwhile, and actually using our military to take on Mehmed then Joao.
Ralph
Ralph
shyuhe-5 - re-learning civ
- Thread starter shyuhe
- Start date
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Yeah, chances are Charle would capitulate to Joao before our ships even reach its shores 
For Mehmed, we need to wait 1 or 2 turns for our forces to get ready in the northern island.
Good luck.
For Mehmed, we need to wait 1 or 2 turns for our forces to get ready in the northern island.
Good luck.
shyuhe
Deity
I'm back in the loop folks. Looking good Fox. I wouldn't war with HRE just yet. I would wait till after we declare on Mehmed so that Charlie can't harass us with destroyers. Once we unload our troops on Mehmed's lands, I think we should declare on Charlie for the MM bonus. I would hurry up on declaring on Mehmed though since he still doesn't have AL.
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shyuhe
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PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
Played 6 war heavy turns. I quit here because we're yet again at a decision point and I want to have some input from the group.
271 (IT): I check out the garrison at Istanbul, our prime (and likely first) target. It's big but certainly not invincible.
Also, I buy a grocer at Bibracte. Bibracte wants lots of gold multipliers because it's our holy city and a pretty good spot for cottages as well.
IBT: Ramesses gets the free GA from the Marathon event. Nothing else happens.
272: Railroad is finished so that these bums we call 'workers' have something useful to do again. All idling workers are put back to work to railroad our continent and island.
I deliver the bad news to Mehmed, drop slightly more than half the troops off at Istanbul and keep the rest of them on the boats to strike at Edirne.
IBT: A lone Cavalry attacks the troops at Istanbul and loses.
273: I kill two Cavalries at Izmir.
The other part of the troops are dropped off at Edirne.
I buy a bank at Ulundi. We run four merchants there, have two Great Merchants settled yet it does not have a bank yet? Hmmm...
274: Both Istanbul and Edirne fall. The gold is spent on research/gold buildings.
IBT: Zara and Charle are fighting hard - both get a Great General.
Evidently Charlemagne did not get the message he was fighting two-to-one: the Ethiopian city of Bantu falls to the HRE.
275: Move on to Gaziantep in the north and Ankara in the south. Buy more buildings, and kill more infantries at Izmir. Yes, Mehmed has AL now. And Zara has Industrialism already. *shudder*
276: Izmir falls. Buy the last university we need for Oxford, Bulawayo is still building its ban. Yes, I'm not buying at Bulawayo: it builds fast enough by itself, unlike our other research cities.
277: Combustion is in, I start on Electricity (but is open to change). I capture Ankara at the loss of some cannons, you can take Gaziantep in this turn but that might be too much of a risk. What's more is that Mehmed is willing to capitulate. Save for Bursa (and maybe Gaziantep if you want the extra happy resource/oil well without forcing Mehmed to cough it up) we have everything from the Ottomans that is still useful to us.
The Charlemagne/Zara war is still going in and I think we are best off keeping out after all. Charle has scored an unexpected victory and we haven't heard from any counterprestations on Zara's side.
Our economy has been significantly improved by buying buildings from a lowered slider and Ottoman war spoils.
The next can either finish off Mehmed or vassalize him and move on to Joao. Our well is due in three turns so we can build oil-based ships soon.
271 (IT): I check out the garrison at Istanbul, our prime (and likely first) target. It's big but certainly not invincible.
Also, I buy a grocer at Bibracte. Bibracte wants lots of gold multipliers because it's our holy city and a pretty good spot for cottages as well.
IBT: Ramesses gets the free GA from the Marathon event. Nothing else happens.
272: Railroad is finished so that these bums we call 'workers' have something useful to do again. All idling workers are put back to work to railroad our continent and island.
I deliver the bad news to Mehmed, drop slightly more than half the troops off at Istanbul and keep the rest of them on the boats to strike at Edirne.
IBT: A lone Cavalry attacks the troops at Istanbul and loses.
273: I kill two Cavalries at Izmir.
The other part of the troops are dropped off at Edirne.
I buy a bank at Ulundi. We run four merchants there, have two Great Merchants settled yet it does not have a bank yet? Hmmm...
274: Both Istanbul and Edirne fall. The gold is spent on research/gold buildings.
IBT: Zara and Charle are fighting hard - both get a Great General.
Evidently Charlemagne did not get the message he was fighting two-to-one: the Ethiopian city of Bantu falls to the HRE.
275: Move on to Gaziantep in the north and Ankara in the south. Buy more buildings, and kill more infantries at Izmir. Yes, Mehmed has AL now. And Zara has Industrialism already. *shudder*
276: Izmir falls. Buy the last university we need for Oxford, Bulawayo is still building its ban. Yes, I'm not buying at Bulawayo: it builds fast enough by itself, unlike our other research cities.
277: Combustion is in, I start on Electricity (but is open to change). I capture Ankara at the loss of some cannons, you can take Gaziantep in this turn but that might be too much of a risk. What's more is that Mehmed is willing to capitulate. Save for Bursa (and maybe Gaziantep if you want the extra happy resource/oil well without forcing Mehmed to cough it up) we have everything from the Ottomans that is still useful to us.
The Charlemagne/Zara war is still going in and I think we are best off keeping out after all. Charle has scored an unexpected victory and we haven't heard from any counterprestations on Zara's side.
Our economy has been significantly improved by buying buildings from a lowered slider and Ottoman war spoils.
The next can either finish off Mehmed or vassalize him and move on to Joao. Our well is due in three turns so we can build oil-based ships soon.
Ralph_Jackson
Emperor
OK got it, I will press on against Mehmed as he still has one thing we want.....Land and Population for Domination.
Ralph
Ralph
shyuhe
Deity
Indeed I would press on. Remember he has the SoL on his island so each city brings a free specialist. We can set sail towards Joao once Mehmed is taken care of. By then, we should have enough production to take care of whoever we need to finish off to hit domination (if we don't hit it from those islands alone).
Also, if WW mounts, we should take advantage of the chance to revolt into state property (and any other civics we want to change for the last push).
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GreyFox
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Also, if WW mounts, we should take advantage of the chance to revolt into state property (and any other civics we want to change for the last push).
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GreyFox
Make it so ...
Good progress on the war ... and the city we got is fabulous ... but outdated 
(TGL, Pyramid, Oracle, ...) Congrats on moving us to the top of the score list! 
On Zara, I wasn't surprised. He did not initiate the war. HRE did. Zara was just pulled in by agreeing to be Rameses' master. So, Zara was not prepared. I think we will see the tide slowly turns against HRE in the next turnset as Zara enters into war mode.
I am fine with killing off Mehmed, just note that he has one more city east of our northern island. We should probably send the CR3 infantry along with other units (to be produced) over to the friendly territory in the east, and then move north. This way we need not have more ships for ferry and escort.
Some suggestion:
- buy the bank (yes, the city can easily build it, but no harm in buying) and build the Oxford ASAP!
- Why Public Transportation in the Moai city? An aqueduct is 2 turns cheaper and gives the same health, or a grocer is equal in hammers but also gives extra commerce bonus.
- Move our airship over to the newly acquired city.
- We have a galleon with some obsoleted unit doing nothing in our capitol ... the plan was again originally to move the maceman to the front line, but apparently Paulus, unlike me, hates using obsoleted units
- There is also a GG there, suggest settling in HE city.
- Our troops are still too small for the next offensive ... I suggest we switch most of the average cities to troop production in prep for next offensive. For instance, no point building courthouses at this point.
--
(TGL, Pyramid, Oracle, ...) Congrats on moving us to the top of the score list! On Zara, I wasn't surprised. He did not initiate the war. HRE did. Zara was just pulled in by agreeing to be Rameses' master. So, Zara was not prepared. I think we will see the tide slowly turns against HRE in the next turnset as Zara enters into war mode.
I am fine with killing off Mehmed, just note that he has one more city east of our northern island. We should probably send the CR3 infantry along with other units (to be produced) over to the friendly territory in the east, and then move north. This way we need not have more ships for ferry and escort.
Some suggestion:
- buy the bank (yes, the city can easily build it, but no harm in buying) and build the Oxford ASAP!
- Why Public Transportation in the Moai city? An aqueduct is 2 turns cheaper and gives the same health, or a grocer is equal in hammers but also gives extra commerce bonus.
- Move our airship over to the newly acquired city.
- We have a galleon with some obsoleted unit doing nothing in our capitol ... the plan was again originally to move the maceman to the front line, but apparently Paulus, unlike me, hates using obsoleted units
- There is also a GG there, suggest settling in HE city.
- Our troops are still too small for the next offensive ... I suggest we switch most of the average cities to troop production in prep for next offensive. For instance, no point building courthouses at this point.
--
PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
I've checked the land requirement, and it seems we need a whopping 64% of land to win a domination victory - which means that taking out both Mehmed and Joao will probably still not be enough. By the looks of it, we will need to move on the other continent eventually.
@ GreyFox: The Public Transportation likely stems from the 'get-away-with-those-popup-boxes-I-want-to-fight-my-war effect'
RJ can of course change it. That ships with obsolete troops was, IIRC, brought to Ulundi and got Infantry instead of that maceman. And personally, I think bringing macemen along in an infantry war is stretching it a bit.
I also noticed that we - for some reason - have a GS standing around. What are we going to do with him, GA?
@ GreyFox: The Public Transportation likely stems from the 'get-away-with-those-popup-boxes-I-want-to-fight-my-war effect'
RJ can of course change it. That ships with obsolete troops was, IIRC, brought to Ulundi and got Infantry instead of that maceman. And personally, I think bringing macemen along in an infantry war is stretching it a bit. I also noticed that we - for some reason - have a GS standing around. What are we going to do with him, GA?
GreyFox
Make it so ...
No problem, I am just obsessed with CR3 infantries ... but generally after a few cannons siege, a maceman should effortlessly kill one of the last defenders.
Yeah, the GS has been standing there since Shyuhe's turns. I thought we wanted GA as well (which is probably the best, given our size and we are in US -- so a town gets both commerce and hammer boost), hence I switched all scientists in GP farm to merchants to ensure a different GP type... and missed the part on lack of bank
hammer2.
I also think that a showdown against Zara (probably by the time we are finished with Joao, Zara would have capitulated HRE as well) is inevitable. Hence we need also to pay attention to developing our commerce to catch up with Zara in techs. Fighting mech inf with infantries is not very fun ...
... but generally after a few cannons siege, a maceman should effortlessly kill one of the last defenders.Yeah, the GS has been standing there since Shyuhe's turns. I thought we wanted GA as well (which is probably the best, given our size and we are in US -- so a town gets both commerce and hammer boost), hence I switched all scientists in GP farm to merchants to ensure a different GP type... and missed the part on lack of bank
hammer2. I also think that a showdown against Zara (probably by the time we are finished with Joao, Zara would have capitulated HRE as well) is inevitable. Hence we need also to pay attention to developing our commerce to catch up with Zara in techs. Fighting mech inf with infantries is not very fun ...
shyuhe
Deity
We just need to hope Zara doesn't go towards advanced flight. That (with choppers) could make things nasty for tanks. I think we should save the GS for a GA. Any idea on how many turns it'll take to pop another one? If it's soon, we may be able to avoid anarchy and also give us a production boost in preparation for taking on Joao.
CR3 infantry are awesome but we'll need cannons if we're going to promote our maces
CR3 infantry are awesome but we'll need cannons if we're going to promote our maces
Ralph_Jackson
Emperor
IHT.
I must confess I only check for resource trades at the start of the turnset so there maybe some new ones available
My main objective this et was to firstly to wipe out Mehmed and Secondly to decide not to build Oxford University just to see if Greyfox would actually explode!!
Now after all this talk of promoting Macemen to CR3 I could find only one
...so I am afraid nurturing him wasn't a priority
Initially versus Mehmed it was fairly plain sailing as we advanced post healing to his next wave of cities but then things got a lot more interesting..
The presence of a few destroyers slowed us down as we couldnt just ferry troops up the coastline without losing a few of our own destroyers in the process, I probably should have traded destroyers with him to accelerate his demise but decided to get his rid of his Navy by wiping him out..
We picked up his Island city which could be a nice outpost for launching versus Jaoa. Note there are still some good quality troops there ready for when we invade Portugal.
To Keep the fox happy we did build Oxford and started on Industrialism.
The timing means we have just finished off Industrialsim at the same time as killing Mehmed.
Our filler" cities had produced enough troops for a decent stack versus Jaoa which is now in the water.
Obviously this stack would be a lot stronger with the Super Medics who are still over on Mehmeds Island.
Meanwhile in other news we got our Merchant so a GA is available but I would stick with our current civics as cant see us really needing Police State and other than that our Civics look fine. We have some WW which will disappear on pressing enter.
In terms of the other AI as Greyfox prewdicted the tide has turned versus HRE and he has lost a couple of cities
However I think that we are in a good position to catch him up as our economy begins to take off.
I must confess I only check for resource trades at the start of the turnset so there maybe some new ones available
My main objective this et was to firstly to wipe out Mehmed and Secondly to decide not to build Oxford University just to see if Greyfox would actually explode!!
Now after all this talk of promoting Macemen to CR3 I could find only one
...so I am afraid nurturing him wasn't a priorityInitially versus Mehmed it was fairly plain sailing as we advanced post healing to his next wave of cities but then things got a lot more interesting..
The presence of a few destroyers slowed us down as we couldnt just ferry troops up the coastline without losing a few of our own destroyers in the process, I probably should have traded destroyers with him to accelerate his demise but decided to get his rid of his Navy by wiping him out..
We picked up his Island city which could be a nice outpost for launching versus Jaoa. Note there are still some good quality troops there ready for when we invade Portugal.
To Keep the fox happy we did build Oxford and started on Industrialism.
The timing means we have just finished off Industrialsim at the same time as killing Mehmed.
Our filler" cities had produced enough troops for a decent stack versus Jaoa which is now in the water.
Obviously this stack would be a lot stronger with the Super Medics who are still over on Mehmeds Island.
Meanwhile in other news we got our Merchant so a GA is available but I would stick with our current civics as cant see us really needing Police State and other than that our Civics look fine. We have some WW which will disappear on pressing enter.
In terms of the other AI as Greyfox prewdicted the tide has turned versus HRE and he has lost a couple of cities
However I think that we are in a good position to catch him up as our economy begins to take off.
shyuhe
Deity
Looking good. Got it for later tonight. One question - do we want to try to broker peace between Zara and HRE, or at least gift AL to HRE? I'm worried we're going to face a very large Zara in the endgame unless we do something to stop that war.
I'm going to set sail for Joao and see how far I can whittle him down in 10 turns. I will hold off on the GA until we need police state to cut down on WW. US will be useful for rushing buildings in Mehmed's former cities.
Is anybody opposed to trading electricity for biology (and hopefully facism) with Joao before we declare on him? I think both techs will help us immensely and Joao won't get much mileage out of electricity (although it does open up industrialism for him).
I'm going to set sail for Joao and see how far I can whittle him down in 10 turns. I will hold off on the GA until we need police state to cut down on WW. US will be useful for rushing buildings in Mehmed's former cities.
Is anybody opposed to trading electricity for biology (and hopefully facism) with Joao before we declare on him? I think both techs will help us immensely and Joao won't get much mileage out of electricity (although it does open up industrialism for him).
PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
The last screen is interesting. We could simply head to space and let the wars be - we've got Ottoman cities coming out of revolt and having to be rebuild, so it's only going up from here. Yes, it's not the Shakan way, but it's a lot less time-consuming.
If we can get biology from Joao for electricity, by all means do so. As you said, he can't get enough mileage out of it before we declare on him. If we declare on him.
If we can get biology from Joao for electricity, by all means do so. As you said, he can't get enough mileage out of it before we declare on him. If we declare on him.
shyuhe
Deity
Well too bad Paulus I've already declared war. And Joao is ready to capitulate - all in a span of 10 turns Unfortunately it was getting late when I played my set so I didn't post the report. I'll post a full report later tonight.
The situation is that I bribed Zara to stop attacking HRE by giving him military science. I took two of Joao's island cities and destroyed his SoD do he's ready to capitulate now (although I haven't taken any of his mainland cities yet). I'm not sure if it's worth the time it'll take to take all of his cities - I think it'll take 10-20 turns to wipe him out given how long it takes our ships to ferry troops over. Joao's best cities asides from his capital are the fertile southern ones.
So the options are 1) grab those before we capitulate him or 2) turn him into a vassal with decent teching ability or 3) wipe him out.
I've already declared war. And Joao is ready to capitulate - all in a span of 10 turns Unfortunately it was getting late when I played my set so I didn't post the report. I'll post a full report later tonight.The situation is that I bribed Zara to stop attacking HRE by giving him military science. I took two of Joao's island cities and destroyed his SoD do he's ready to capitulate now (although I haven't taken any of his mainland cities yet). I'm not sure if it's worth the time it'll take to take all of his cities - I think it'll take 10-20 turns to wipe him out given how long it takes our ships to ferry troops over. Joao's best cities asides from his capital are the fertile southern ones.
So the options are 1) grab those before we capitulate him or 2) turn him into a vassal with decent teching ability or 3) wipe him out.
PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
Well too bad Paulus
The situation is that I bribed Zara to stop attacking HRE by giving him military science. I took two of Joao's island cities and destroyed his SoD do he's ready to capitulate now (although I haven't taken any of his mainland cities yet). I'm not sure if it's worth the time it'll take to take all of his cities - I think it'll take 10-20 turns to wipe him out given how long it takes our ships to ferry troops over. Joao's best cities asides from his capital are the fertile southern ones.
So the options are 1) grab those before we capitulate him or 2) turn him into a vassal with decent teching ability or 3) wipe him out.
Oh, bummer.
His land is a bit 'meh'. Capitulate him and get on to our final targets.
shyuhe
Deity
So here's the report.
IT: I trade electricity for biology + 60 with Joao. I also trade AL for military science with HRE. And I find out that we have the Eiffel Tower! I also noticed that we don't have many factories and coal plants in our cities so I start rush buying those.
Turn 293 - I give Zara military science for peace with HRE. We don't want him capitulating HRE.
Turn 294 - Refrigeration is in. Yes I changed research because I wanted coal plants and we will need groceries. I also declare on Joao this turn.
Turn 299 - Flight is in. Joao is suffering.
Turn 301 - I've finished off Joao's SoD. Yeah for all the wait, it turns out my notes weren't very detailed
This came up in my set:
And this is Joao's offer:
He still has all of his mainland cities. I took one of them once but he took it back with his SoD. That was then promptly shredded the next turn (and last turn I took). We could just vassalize him and then head towards diplomination for a faster victory as well.
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shyuhe just played
IT: I trade electricity for biology + 60 with Joao. I also trade AL for military science with HRE. And I find out that we have the Eiffel Tower! I also noticed that we don't have many factories and coal plants in our cities so I start rush buying those.
Turn 293 - I give Zara military science for peace with HRE. We don't want him capitulating HRE.
Turn 294 - Refrigeration is in. Yes I changed research because I wanted coal plants and we will need groceries. I also declare on Joao this turn.
Turn 299 - Flight is in. Joao is suffering.
Turn 301 - I've finished off Joao's SoD. Yeah for all the wait, it turns out my notes weren't very detailed
This came up in my set:
And this is Joao's offer:
He still has all of his mainland cities. I took one of them once but he took it back with his SoD. That was then promptly shredded the next turn (and last turn I took). We could just vassalize him and then head towards diplomination for a faster victory as well.
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Ralph_Jackson
shyuhe just played
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Charle must have depleted his stack during the war vs Ethopia in order to be categorized as puny in power .... we should probably declare on him ASAP before he can recuperate.
Got it, will play tomorrow night. So please keep suggestions or observations flowing.
Got it, will play tomorrow night. So please keep suggestions or observations flowing.
shyuhe
Deity
Yes I think I brokered peace just before he was going to capitulate. Having some of his cities will give us a great staging point for any future wars against Zara/Ramesses (which I think we'll need to hit domination).
GreyFox
Make it so ...
A quiet war preparation turnset ... played only 8 turns I think to get us to a point where we can declare on Charlie the next turn.
As agreed, we signed peace.
Tried to get Artillery from him, but he refuse to bulge. Well, Music is better than nothing, so the world returned to peace ... for the moment. To make sure that he can fend for his own, I sell him a lot of extra resources for a measly 4gpt. Feel free to cancel it, but I can't imagine how it would do us any harm .... Jaoa can never hope to break free from our iron clutch ....
Hmm ... we are at a whopping 1 point away from a general ...
The rest of my turnset is all about marshalling of troops. I replaced all infantries in ex-Ottoman land with archers from our main cities to assemble a second stack. Airports were also constructed to have easier reinforcement later.
While I am it, I got us the barb city in Jaoa's island:
We beat him to it ... Yah!
Na-na-na-na-na-na, you are too late, Joey-boy!
But then again, a bunch of artilleries can't take cities anyway.
Damned, barb fighting exp doesn't count towards GG .... we are still at an agonizing 1 exp away from our GG ...
I delayed movement of troops to upgrade to artilleries before moving out ... end turns, we are ready:
The western (or eastern depending on your perspective, but I am viewing it in with HRE at the middle) stack is stronger, but lack battleships for escort. So we need to unload troops and move the hell out before losing too many destroyers. The eastern stack is a bit smaller, but should do a reasonable job.
We got a bad event
A snow capped volcano, huh? A cottage, plantation, and mine are destroyed AFAICT.
Interesting to note is we are the "worst friend" of Zara, and the "worst enemy of Joao".
Some points also need to be careful: while we are strong in attack, our defense is laughably pitiful. So, I suggest keeping the positive cash flow and maintaining 1000g in reserve in case we need an emergency upgrade of our archers ... (archers!!!
) . Also, try to build some machine guns, destroyers etc for defensive purpose. We would need it for the final showdown against Zara+Ramesses, and it is better to start preparing now. I think we can lax on infrastructure builds at this stage.
... and we are still at an excruciating 1 exp from a general ....
Good luck.
As agreed, we signed peace.
Tried to get Artillery from him, but he refuse to bulge. Well, Music is better than nothing, so the world returned to peace ... for the moment. To make sure that he can fend for his own, I sell him a lot of extra resources for a measly 4gpt. Feel free to cancel it, but I can't imagine how it would do us any harm .... Jaoa can never hope to break free from our iron clutch ....
Hmm ... we are at a whopping 1 point away from a general ...
The rest of my turnset is all about marshalling of troops. I replaced all infantries in ex-Ottoman land with archers from our main cities to assemble a second stack. Airports were also constructed to have easier reinforcement later.
While I am it, I got us the barb city in Jaoa's island:
We beat him to it ... Yah!
Na-na-na-na-na-na, you are too late, Joey-boy!
But then again, a bunch of artilleries can't take cities anyway.
Damned, barb fighting exp doesn't count towards GG .... we are still at an agonizing 1 exp away from our GG ...
I delayed movement of troops to upgrade to artilleries before moving out ... end turns, we are ready:
The western (or eastern depending on your perspective, but I am viewing it in with HRE at the middle) stack is stronger, but lack battleships for escort. So we need to unload troops and move the hell out before losing too many destroyers. The eastern stack is a bit smaller, but should do a reasonable job.
We got a bad event
A snow capped volcano, huh? A cottage, plantation, and mine are destroyed AFAICT.
Interesting to note is we are the "worst friend" of Zara, and the "worst enemy of Joao".
Some points also need to be careful: while we are strong in attack, our defense is laughably pitiful. So, I suggest keeping the positive cash flow and maintaining 1000g in reserve in case we need an emergency upgrade of our archers ... (archers!!!
) . Also, try to build some machine guns, destroyers etc for defensive purpose. We would need it for the final showdown against Zara+Ramesses, and it is better to start preparing now. I think we can lax on infrastructure builds at this stage.... and we are still at an excruciating 1 exp from a general ....
Good luck.
PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
Got it.
I only need to know one thing: do we intend to attack somebody in my turnset? If so, who?
I only need to know one thing: do we intend to attack somebody in my turnset? If so, who?
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