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shyuhe-5 - re-learning civ

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by shyuhe, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Well since we have chemistry, we might as well get steel. Then we should be able to destroy Boudica even with obsolete troops (especially if we can pull it off before she gets guilds). Any other thoughts?

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  2. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    OK got it for the weekend, will post any significant thoughts tonight having looked at the game but I do have a weakness for Cannons!!

    Ralph
     
  3. PaulusIII

    PaulusIII Unholy Warlord

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    It's hard to go wrong with Cannons. If we have enough of them we can deal with almost anything before MG/Infantry and Boudica is not going to get there before we kill her off.

    And don't forget that we want Liberalism once friendship with Boudica is no longer needed. FR will offset some diplo troubles on the other continent.
     
  4. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    Plan as we research through to Steel I will build a mixture of Frigates, Musketeers and Macemen with macemen being slightly weaker than Musketeers but have the chance of taking CR promotions.

    Time will tell if we can build enough of a force to safely take out Boudi before rifling is unlocked but I think the first stage of the War will be Cannons, + Mace and Musketeers as more of a Stack Defender role.
    IHT. Start WB’s fro both Jute (about to border pop) and Ndona...
    Do this Zara Trade as we are about to pick up another sheep in Jute.



    Similarly as long as it doesn’t enhance her Military picking up techs from Boudi while we can seems worthwhile as it doesn’t irritate anyone else.

    .

    We despatch two archers from the Mainland to swap with the Macemen doing garrison duty on the Island as these Maces will be needed for war.



    Another Boudi trade opens up, note she is 5 turns from Astronomy hersefle so might as well cash in now. Hopefully we can pick up Liberalism and Economics to do a double civic switch to Free Religion and Market.



    Other than that we have 2 Frigates one on either coast to give command of the sea and have built up Military but I think need a few more turns before releasing the DOW.




    With Steel in we have started on replaceable parts. (because this was close I vetoed the forest chops that had been set in the last turn set as these will make nice lumber mills.)
    We also got a Rand Event which is very nice and I haven’t seen before.
    Lots of our workers are asleep and need to be awoken when Lumber mills are unlocked.



    SO EOT.

    Rifling is about 14 turns away. The GM is lurking in Portugal and can be cashed in when ready as he is earmarked for upgrading Mace’s to riflemen, Who will hopefully be CR2 maces by then.

    We have just popped a GS who should probably just be merged in our capital..



    Ondini is now producing a settler to help finish settling our island as the AI is in distant settling mode and we don’t need one appearing in the open spots on our island.



    So next player should attack when they feel ready (halfway through the next set?)2 stacks with 2 cannons a couple of musketeers and 3 or 4 macemen should be OK initially if we don’t overstretch And keep reinforcements coming.
     

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  5. PaulusIII

    PaulusIII Unholy Warlord

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    I'd go for Sakae with the first stack and keep the second stack back for the counterattack we know Boudica holds in reserve. With cannons we should be able to fight the lot of them back though, she doesn't even have gunpowder yet let alone cuirassiers.

    Once we hit Rifling we should be able to wipe her off the map, we've still got Aretas in Portugal to get us the cash for mass upgrades.

    What we also need to look at is where we go once Boudica is down... one thing that is nearly sure. Two obvious targets are there: Mehmed and Joao. Mehmed because he's next door and not liked by anyone, Joao because he's really, really backwards. I prefer killing Mehmed over Joao because I'm nearly sure a DoW on Joao would cause him to vassalize to a stronger civ and cause a war we do not want yet.

    Techwise, I'd favor heading for Communism/SP after Rifling and go on a conquering spree. We're Shaka, after all!

    One quick question: I just noticed we're still in Paganism. Why did we all forget to change to OR? :p
     
  6. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    Guilty as charged. I suspect it was thinking along the lines of
    a) Well we will be Free Relgion soon so no point in taking anarchy now+
    b) and/or umm Theocracy is better for Military and we will have that soon so no point in taking anarchy yet....
     
  7. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Got it. I actually wasn't sure why we picked up theology if we don't revolt to theocracy... I'll take a look at the military situation before deciding when to declare war.
     
  8. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    I don't think we could attack in 5 turns. The forces we have can't even protect themselves if Boudica were to attack now. I think we need to at least double our current forces ... the whip should come in handy.
     
  9. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    sorry I've been caught up in work the last few days. I will play the set tonight (EST) unless Fox wants to play it first.
     
  10. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Nope, go ahead. I didn't bring my laptop back, and my desktop at home is acting up, complaining not enough power for the nvidia GPU :confused: So I can't play any sooner than you can.
     
  11. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    ok playing. Will post shortly.
     
  12. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Sorry for the delay team. Things should get interesting now :)

    IT: I trade chemistry + 120 gold for nationalism with Ramesses. I then trade chem for liberalism + 325 gold with HRE. Then I trade chemistry to Zara for econ + WM + 70 gold. I then trigger a GA to swap to nationalism/CS/FM/FR. Caste system was probably unnecessary but I didn't want to risk a slave revolt while prepping for war. I also start drafting.

    Turn 219 - I continue drafting.

    Turn 220 - Replaceable parts is in. I also continue drafting.

    Turn 224 - I decide we have enough troops and declare war on Boudica. I lay siege to Sakae.

    Turn 225 - I complete the trade mission in anticipation of rifling coming in next turn.

    Turn 226 - Rifling is in, and Sakae falls with no casualties :woohoo:

    It doesn't come with much though (although it gives us a source of gems - we should cancel our gem trade ASAP)




    I haven't upgraded the southern troops yet but I don't see a SOD so we can probably hold off for a turn or two. I stop here as we have 1 turn left on the GA so we can swap civics again. I recommend switching caste system to slavery but keeping the other civics as is.

    We have lots of muskets and maces that should be upgraded. In case you're wondering, this is the power graph (not reflecting the troops I annihilated in Sakae)



    And of course, the tech shot:


    I've tentatively set research for steam power. I'm not sure if we want that or something else. We can easily trade for constitution and SM. Last I saw, Boudica was starting to research SM so I don't think she'll put up much of a fight against superior troops. We should also get a GG soon - I'm assuming we'll use it as a medic.

    I don't think we'll need theocracy and it's not really worth the relationship demerit right now. Maybe we can trade for constitution (with chemistry + gold), revolt to slavery/representation and tech corporations --> steam power --> AL?

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  13. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Hmm ... a golden age followed by drafting to get an army out? That's brilliant!

    Got it. As to civics, we will have to stay in FR, since revolting to anything else require 2 turns (1 for religion, 1 for civics) and we only have 1 turn of GAge left.
     
  14. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    Definitely stay FR now but agree we should take the free switch back to slavery as we may have some unahppy english citizens we can put to use!! :mischief:

    Looks good and Fox should have some fun rolling up Boudicca - and just remember the :old: Fox said we wouldn't be ready to attack in 5 turns but it actually only took 7 which is near enough in my book....

    Ralph
     
  15. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    I'm sensing some sarcasm here :rolleyes:

    I know you're not supposed to draft during a GA because you're wasting the bonus. But I triggered the GA so that we could a) produce cannons faster b) hit rifling faster and c) to swap to nationalism/FM/FR.

    When you're in a GA, you can change as many civics as you want at once. I changed civics on the first turn of the GA so you can change all of them on the inherited turn (1 turn left of GA). I think FR is better than theocracy right now because the extra promos probably won't help that much. Also, FR will avoid heathen penalties.

    Or Fox, were you thinking of changing our state religion? We're picking up Buddhist cities so I don't see why we'd want to change our state religion...

    We will want slavery to whip away :mad: and to build courthouses. I was looking around and many of our cities don't have them yet. We're about to expand a lot so it may be good to whip out courthouses as WW rises.

    Any thoughts on trading for constitution so that we can swap to representation before the end of the GA? Unfortunately we'd need caste system to get the most out of representation, so it may be better to go HR/slavery than rep/caste.
     
  16. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    No sarcasm intended ... that's what happen when you have a nefarious reputation, when you applaud a good move, people suspect you being sarcastic :sad: :lol:

    Seriously, I was thinking we could not gather a large enough army to declare in 5 turns, but with drafting we could. But yes, drafting with golden age is wasteful, but okay.

    As to my FR comment, I think (might be wrong though) it doesn't matter whether GAge or not, you can't switch religion and civics in the same turn (and it would be dumb to switch to anything except FR without switching religion). The only exception is when you switch to FR ... you get the religion switch to No State for free. Anyway, I also think it is better to stay in FR.

    As to constitution, it is a 3800+ beakers tech. If we want to keep monopoly on Steel (I think we want), we only have Rifling and RP to play with. Both of which are significantly less than Constitution, so I doubt we can get constitution with trade. Plus I rather save the money for upgrade.

    And assuming we can't, Rep vs HR debate is moot :) Nevertheless, HR at current stage is better.

    The next question, which nobody seems to touch on, is do we stay in Nationhood? I have a quick look last night, I don't think we can draft our cities (except capital) any further in the short term. So, I would like to switch away from Nationhood ... (the capital can be whipped instead) ... do we want to go back to Bureaucracy (a bit blah, given our food-rich, commerce/hammer poor capital)? or do we go Free Speech?

    -
     
  17. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Draft anger will wear off in another 3-5 turns (depending on the city). We can then draft a fresh set of rifles. Bureaucracy isn't really worth it for our capital. I'd either stay in nationhood (don't forget the free :) from barracks) or free speech.
     
  18. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    Can't see that Free Speech gives us more than Nationhood even if Nationhood is about "potential" to draft in the future rather than immediate drafting in the next set..

    Of course that probably betrays my desire to carry on with a warlike footing post finishing Boudicca whilst our Rifles still dominate the battlefield + everyone knows I love navies!!

    Ralph
     
  19. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Some GreyFox's rant:


    The usual gripes:
    - archer is doing nothing in Ottoman's land, should have pulled back and save 1 gpt.
    - Idling worker is something I can't stand. If nothing to do, build roads. But there is something to do!

    Next, is to explore some trades.


    Managed to get both Constitution and Science Method, spending slightly less than 600 gold. Not too bad.

    With SciMeth, oil is revealed. We have 3 ... so far.


    And also looked into civics change. I still think Free Speech is the way to go ... we have lots of towns. But I submit to team consensus, and leave Nationhood as is.


    Which means I get to draft as I please, which is not entirely a bad thing :evil:.

    We are still at inherited turn.

    Press ENTER already!!!


    Heh, funny. :lol: You shouldn't see a "Love the XXX" in a city with red faces ... but since the "Love the XXX" happens during the IBT, whereas I drafted once we press enter (afterall, GAge is over), hence you see this oddity.


    At exactly where I wanted to settle, Mehmed was there first :gripe: Another reason why I ranted on idle worker. Had he been building roads on that tile, we would have beaten Ottoman to it. No choice, I settled on the hill.

    There were enemy Crossbow and Mace in our territory, all dealt with, which yield us a general.


    I thought about it, decided to attach him to a sword. Yes, sword. It gives us the flexibility of promoting him to rifleman if needed.

    Next is movements of troops. I split the stack Shyuhe left me into two, one head direct south, the other head south-west.

    Of-course, a healthy dose of drafting were also added here and there.

    A bad event ...


    When I was processing the screenshot, I realized I forgot to replace the farm :p :p :p Feel free to give me the GreyFox rant :lol:

    We have two log messages of interest:


    Hmm, two Great Persons born at the same time in the same city? :eek: Probably gotten the Great Spy from Communism.

    And we have war on the other side of the world. Sweet!

    Then, we see a smart AI move.


    A spy instigated revolt, followed by a huge stack of doom approaching. Hmmm, I am impressed, Boudica! (no, not at your boobs :nono:).

    Too bad for her, I was about to attack her city. Just have to delay that attack a bit, and charged a few cannons into that stack. Even then, it took me a few turns to entirely dispell the stack she brought.

    Meanwhile, our second stack in the south-west moved ...


    Sweet, two cities in one turn. Top them up with a great general.


    :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

    The power graph after the slaying:


    Next up, I suggest using the GG on a knight that is currently being built. You could ofcourse build an explorer for it, but I think it is not necessary. Alternatively, as we already have a super medic sword, the GG could be used to build the Academy (need Military Science though).

    As to the war, we should probably press on towards the Celtic capitol with our eastern stack. The western stack can move west, or move towards the capitol also to rendevoz with the eastern stack. But the western stack is smaller, and needs some reinforcement.

    Good luck.
     

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  20. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Looking good Fox. I didn't even notice the sleeping worker. I did notice the archer but forgot to move him back into the borders (was worried about barbs spawning before the city was built). I won't comment on your farming error :p

    So after steam power, I'm guessing we're going corporations --> AL? The question remains - do we want to capture all of Boudica's cities or just the good ones and vassalize her? Our one movement troops are going to take a while to march across her lands... Then again, motherland unhappiness is a pain in the butt so it may be a better idea to just finish her off.

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