Sid avarage start

[I. Larkin]

which both have a harbor, trade route intact. I followed Mumpulus recommendation and will build 2 cities near red dot. We have a few sites to settle.

Disagree with that, I think we have to grab land ASAP, before France, Spain or Japan back settle there, but well...
We also have lot of tundra at S-SE.

Now, the issue is about tech trade. Egypt just got CoL, but lacks the other 2 techs. Japan would give us CoL and construction for peace, bu no city. We are soon able to get more of their cities, I think.
Now, shall we get currency from France for gpt (sth like 25gp + 400gold) and then trade hat for CoL? Or do we take out Japan completely and then trade with Spain and get them to declare?

Slightly different...
In General, in a hope of TGL we do not need all that Techs that much...
Without save or picture it is difficult to decide. But I think the best would be
1) to leave Japan alive (get 2 techs). If we are in Peace flip of yokhogama will not west break route.2) then get Currency from Spain for Fur and gpt and ask remove or declare.
is West Route OK?
3) Revolt to Monarchy
4) Connect third Horses and bring Japan back to war with Spain fro Horses or "free", dunno.

 

[ThERat]

Though red dot will be split into 2 cities, I have not wasted 2 settlers there, only 1 is enough to seal off the land from further settling of course.

later we can claim spot #2

Here is the save so people can give comments on what to do...

turnset so far...

Pre-Turn
swap to temple, switch more towns to settlers, we need plenty of them

1. 330BC
get RoP with Persia, so I can recce the place
easily take Yokohama after taking out 3 spears
keep in the hope of a harbor, it comes with barracks as well

employ a scientist and we have 54gpt currently
decide to establish embassy with Russia

IT more Japanese units in the east, Spain and Persia fight and I wonder how we still have our trade route

2. 310BC
take out 3 units next to Grand River, this enables us to send out army into Japanese territory
Move on to Sapporo

IT NF finishes temple and goes for settler, we need more

3. 290BC
take out 4 spears and Sapporo including rax and harbor is ours...trade route should be safe
found Gandesateigon
5 more units fall at Grand River, take out 2 spears in Tokyo

IT 4hp spear attacks our green MW in Sapporo but loses

4. 270BC
take out 3 units near Grand River

IT get 2 more settlers out
Newcastle (England ) finishes Sun Tzu

5. 250BC
Egypt has CoL but nothing else, we could strike a deal here

 

[I. Larkin]

Have a look...

1)Better to leave Japan alive (get 2 techs). If we are in Peace flip of Yokhogama will not west break route.

We may just strike with Elite MW to hant for Leader, thats it. Talk showed, that Spain and Japan "in peace".

Though red dot will be split into 2 cities, I have not wasted 2 settlers there, only 1 is enough to seal off the land from further settling of course.

There is a few tiles left where AI can settle.due to red dot shift. Put units there, if "in peace."

Chondote build settler but it size 1. Switch back to barracks.

2) then get Currency from Spain for Fur and gpt and ask remove or declare.
is West Route OK?

We are not ready to war. There is no trade route at west (we cant trade via black area, and Jerrks did not build roads. So currency may wait. To scout next North we need RoP with Russians. Or scout without RoP.

3) Revolt to Monarchy

I think we may poprush Galley in Tonawanda (scout North) and revolt. Our GA already "ends". Micromanage to set non GA Labors,
But I recomend to revolt now (after Poprush)

4) Connect third Horses and bring Japan back to war with Spain fro Horses or "free", dunno.

Well with all Spain troops at our land it is suicide. Hopfully, they go to Persia. It is in our interest not to let them. I think we need curtain with Valve again.

 

[ThERat]

resumption:
decide to wait a turn for revolt as several settlers are ready

IT GA ends and the 2 settlers do not make it...will wait one more turn

6. 230BC
defeat 4 archers around Grand River
defeat spear in Tokyo, I would love to raze that town before peace set up blockade of Spain

7. 210BC
we have 2 more settlers and can revolt at the end of the turn

take out 3 spears and 1 archer and Tokyo is no more
there is still a settler pair we don't want to get anywhere, manage to take it out

start to leader fish with success, we can decide what to do with it (HE, FP or another army)

as we have 4 settlers, I try and block others from settling
send our settler to the good spots far from our borders, we can backfill later
go for peace with Japan for 2 techs and 33 gold, revolt and draw 6 turns

a few of our cities need to go into alternate turn riot mode

IT oh no, Bloody Spain demands furs, we can not have war with them as thy will crush us now, give in

8. 190BC
spot Spanish settler pair way south in the tundra and block it
play the blocking game with Spain

IT Babylon finishes KT

9. 170BC
found nice Fishing Village in the southwest and another town south towards Japan

bad news is that Spain somehow captured Darius Kabir

10. 150BC
3 more turns anarchy

I left 1 settler unmoved and another is almost reaching its target
I put up a suggested dotmap

Remember to put 2 cities on alternate revolt, means one more time
We still have a MGL that I did not use...we should decide what to do with it
If we fight Spain, then build an army. The Spanish are strong and have maces/pikes though
We have to think about what to do next

Egypt lacks construction still, the rest has a mix...

 

[Mumpulus]

Got it; will post my thoughts in a bit, before I start.

 

[Mumpulus]

Ok, here's my plan:
- settle on the pink dots and also fill one more spot near Salamanca
- settle nearer to the Spanish settler pair in the tundra to keep them from founding, use the next settler to take green dot
- all in all, settle like mad
- stay at peace for a few turns at least, to get our bearings as monarchs
- prepare to take on the Spanish first; we'll have ample opportunity to get them to declare, because they're all over our territory
- explore further
- jack up our economy

Questions:
- Where are we going to build our FP? I'd suggest northern pink dot. Lots of commerce and very decent shields. Edit: I'd use the leader on that one, to get the FP town going strong right away.

Answers:
- The Spanish "somehow" captured Darius Kabir because everyone is at war with the Persians.

I'll play tomorrow night.

 

[I. Larkin]

Ok, here's my plan:
1)- settle on the pink dots and also fill one more spot near Salamanca
2)- settle nearer to the Spanish settler pair in the tundra to keep them from founding, use the next settler to take green dot
3) - all in all, settle like mad
4) - stay at peace for a few turns at least, to get our bearings as monarchs
- prepare to take on the Spanish first; we'll have ample opportunity to get them to declare, because they're all over our territory
5) - explore further
6 ) - jack up our economy

Questions:
7) - Where are we going to build our FP? I'd suggest northern pink dot. Lots of commerce and very decent shields. Edit: I'd use the leader on that one, to get the FP town going strong right away.

Answers:
4) - The Spanish "somehow" captured Darius Kabir because everyone is at war with the Persians.

I'll play tomorrow night.

1) If you mean south Tyendenaga (With blue) it is OK. But Japan on the way there, we need unit to block pink and green.
2) They will settle on tundra IBT, the only way not let them is to settle at red-blue dot NOW.
3) Well, at Morachy better to have Cities above size 6, also I think military more important then many small Cities. Just “block the gaps”.
4) We need to stay 5 turns at least to keep reputation clean. Do not renew deal with Persia (next turn) and France. Persia has no chances. Sure, ask Spain “remove or declare”.
5) RoP with Russia cheap, 32 or 14+1gpt. Better get it and scout land for next (after Spain) war.
6) Cash rush really help, probably trade Currency from Spain before war is an idea. But what if they not declare? (Really Rat should trade fur, with “free fur” they may remove…)
7) FP in Tonawanda. It is excellent remote spot + in a perspective of NW expansion it will help.

 

[Mumpulus]

1) Yes, and after that the second pink as well
2) That was my thought too
3) I'll try to find a good balance between founding enough towns and not depleting our existing towns too much
4) and 5) Agreed
6) Well, they're still a bit stronger than us, so it shouldn't be a problem. I'll make sure to make as good an estimate of the reaction as possible before I make any big trades
7) Good idea. Agreed on using the MGL for that, or do we want to build it shield by shield?

 

[I. Larkin]

7) Good idea. Agreed on using the MGL for that, or do we want to build it shield by shield?

Sure with MGL, total benefite of lowerd corruption much better then from Army. But I think for next MGL Army better than HE.

Hopefully, RoP and Horses will be enough to bring Japan to MA vs Spain. And Japan will not demand Horses IBT after deal with France ends, and trade Route to Kyoto will operates...

 

[Mumpulus]

0) 150BC
Change St. Regis to an aqueduct to not waste chop coming in. It'll be close to our FP, so worthwhile to grow larger.

The settler goes to the suggested spot to avoid the Spanish settling there instead. Gewauga founded, set to a catapult for now.

Tonawanda has no shields in the box, so switched to FP, and Red Cloud moves towards it (will arrive next turn).

I block the passage near Salamanca completely for this turn.

Get the RoP with Russia for 32g.

IT
Gems/furs deal expires. I had forgotten about that, but can still fix riots before they happen by selecting our foreign advisor. I do forget to rehire a scientist somewhere, so we lose a turn on currency (but we'll buy it anyway, so no harm done). The Spanish settler vanishes, pretty smart for an AI. One resistor quelled in Yokohama.

1) 130BC
Who says you can't do MM when in anarchy? Set low-food towns to riot again, and even hire some more taxmen in anticipation of faster growth when we'll be monarchs.

IT
Resistance ends in Yokohama.

Tonawanda: Forbidden Palace > Spearman
Sapporo: Worker > Spearman

2) 110BC
Found Goigouen, start catapult.

IT
The English finish Copernicus' Observatory in York.

3) 90BC
Lux has to go to 20% again.

Make some changes in builds, depending on shield and commerce output:
Ganogeh: 1spt, goes from harbor to catapult
Grand River: on to settler again
Kahnawake: rush the settler
Caughnawaga: switch from galley to settler
Akwesasne: switch from MW to settler
Gewauga: switch from cat to galley to replace Caughnawaga build, will rush next turn.

Open the valve for the Spanish again.

IT
Spain and Persia are at peace. Egypt declares on the Persians. Persians start Sistine.

Niagara Falls: Mounted Warrior > Spearman
Kahnawake: Settler > Settler

4) 70BC
The Spanish spear in the southern tundra has moved into our territory. I move to trap him next turn if he moves in further. I check the deal on currency, and there's no problem to get it. The deal with the French ends next turn. I set everything up to get back Allegheny. Rush some walls, settlers, cat and galley.

IT
The Japanese are forming a shield for us near Vitoria, thanks.

Salamanca: Mounted Warrior > Mounted Warrior
Ganogeh: Catapult > Catapult
Akwesasne: Settler > Spearman
Gayagaahe: Walls > Catapult
Caughnawaga: Settler > Catapult
Chondote: Barracks > Spearman
Mauch Chunk: Settler > Settler
Gewauga: Galley > Galley
Goigouen: Walls > Catapult

5) 50BC
Let's go to war again!

I look long and hard, but there's no way to get the funds to obtain feudalism right now.

I make some outrageous demands, but the Spanish don't cave. Then I ask them to leave

eMW kills the spear in the south.

The Japanese know us well, but still agree to this:

Battle for Allegheny:
MW Army kills 2 vPikes, 10/14hp left
MW Army kills vPike and rPike, 4/14hp left
eMW retreats on rSpear, 2/3hp left
eMW kills 2hp rSpear, 2/5hp left
vMW kills rWarrior

Cleaning up:
vMW dies on vMDI, 2/4hp left
vMW kills 2hp vMDI, 2/4 hp left
2 cats miss vPike
vMW dies on vPike, 1/4hp left
vMW kills eArcher, 2/4hp left
vMW kills 1hp vPike, 4/4hp left, captures worker [9-2]

I also pull the Persian back in against Spain:

IT
A spear attacks our healthy vMW in Allegheny and dies, promoting our MW to elite. [10-2]

Niagara Falls: Spearman > Spearman
Grand River: Settler > Settler
Yokohama: Worker > Spearman
Centralia: Spearman > Spearman

We get 2 palace expansions

The English complete Sistine Chapel in London.

6) 30BC
vMW retreats on 2hp vSpear, next MW kills him. vMW kills archer. Army kills spearman. [13-2]

Switch Oil Springs from galley to MW, because the galley won't be able to sail safely through Spanish waters as intended.

IT
The Spanish and Japanese exchange some units. We lose 2 MWs in Allegheny to a horse and a pike. We kill 2 horses and a pike ourselves. [15-4]

Cattaraugus: Mounted Warrior > Mounted Warrior
Chondote: Spearman > Spearman
Oil Springs: Mounted Warrior > Spearman
Tonawanda: Mounted Warrior > Mounted Warrior
St. Regis: Aqueduct > Spearman

7) 10BC
eMW kills 2hp vPike, eMW kills 4hp eHorse, vMW kills 3hp eHorse. vMW retreats on vPike, vMW kills rPike, eMW kills vPike. [20-4]

Found Kawauka, found Kente, found Kiohero, start catapults.

IT
France and Persia sign peace.

Salamanca: Mounted Warrior > Mounted Warrior
Niagara Falls: Spearman > Spearman
Allegheny: Worker > Worker
Tyendenaga: Spearman > Spearman

8) 10AD
eMW dies on 2hp vPike, a second eMW finishes him, just barely. eMW kills redlined spear. Moving on Valencia. [22-5]

Found Owego as first filler town, start barracks.

IT
We lose another MW to a horse in Allegheny. A spearman is underway to finally get some decent defense up. [22-6]

Centralia: Spearman > Spearman

9) 30AD
eMW kills the redlined horseman that killed our MW before.

Battle for Valencia:
Army kills vPike, 9/14hp left
Army kills vPike, 5/14hp left
Army kills rPike, 6/14hp left
eMW retreats on vArcher, 2hp left
eMW kills 2hp vArcher

Form another army. eMW kills that spearman. vMW kills redlined horse, vMW kills redlined pike. Lose a vMW on a rHorse in the north. Second MW kills him. [31-7]

Found Neodakheat in the southern tundra, start catapult.

IT
We kill 2 horses and retreat 1. [33-7]

Niagara Falls: Spearman > Spearman
Akwesasne: Spearman > Spearman
Sapporo: Spearman > Mounted Warrior

10) 50AD
vMW kills pike, eMW kills redlined MDI, vMW kills redlined horse. *MW dies on MDI. [36-8]

 

[Mumpulus]

It's late here now, so I'm not going to give any additional notes this time; it's very straightforward anyway. You might want to take a look at F7 to get a feeling about what's going on on the other continent.

 

[ThERat]

excellent progress

Do be careful, maces will attack even a healthy MW army unless it is on a mountain, so do keep it there. It would be great if we could decimate Spain so that only their northern exile is left and we keep the whole southeast. We do need their iron there, so we should not stop fighting them.
I now see the big advantage of monarchy in this game

You might want to take a look at F7 to get a feeling about what's going on on the other continent.

Well, did England start US already?

 

[Mumpulus]

No, England did not start US. But the Celts have some wonders in cities with English-sounding names. No-one on our continent has engineering, and Leo's hasn't been done I think, so that means an overall slow tech pace.

Regarding the danger the MW army is in: I felt like taking that chance, given that the Spanish are fielding very few units at the moment, and the Japanese are helping a great deal.

I totally agree with Rat's suggestion to keep at it with the Spanish until we have the entire chunk of land east to us. We are a bit pressed for units and settlers, but the flow of new units well steadily increase now.

Depending on what our exploration shows us, I would make a circling movement taking towns, starting with Zaragoza and continuing east first, along the mountain ridge. I'm hoping we'll find the Spanish iron soon. I'd leave Vitoria alone: we have a good defensive position near there, and it keeps them close to the Japanese.

 

[I. Larkin]

Good move to bring Persia back to War. It blocks Spainsh Iron trade. But why not for gpt only? X man likes to take money and run. Note, that Spain has no native Iron, and now we are "even", or even better. It is a priority not to let Spain take Ergili. (Edit: not really, Japan block south and there is no road, but...) Spain has Lighthouse but Ergili block West Route. Also woud be nice to take West Spain and establish our trade route back. We may focus on military now and start infra+settlers when we get Pyramins and ToA in Madrid. Really better leave Vitoria, it will delay Japan. May be put Governor in Alegheny and not heal Army there? Use short rush... We neeb mor MWs. I'd raze all except Madrid and may be leave West spanish Cities.
Use Micromanage better, some corrupted Cities at south work on forest but they do 1 Spt anyway. Give them more food and let they build workers. Some forestcut will come to almost ready Catapult...
Why not trade Horses to Japan? (and connect next one to trde France...)
Elear up, but I had not seen him for a long time, Let's wait for 1 day for his "got it" and "if not" Ignas up.

 

[ignas]

Looks like a decent progress.

I could play on Wednesday or Thursday. We could swap if someone can play sooner

 

[I. Larkin]

Looks like a decent progress.

I could play on Wednesday or Thursday. We could swap if someone can play sooner

No, we will wait untill Wed or Thu, and may be discuss what to do...
It is imortant, not to let Spain to have Iron, but trade route is complicated...

 

[Mumpulus]

I'm also curious what the team's thoughts are on infrastructure. You proved last game that self-research is doable. In this case, where engineering isn't even known yet, it may also be worthwhile? Or are we going for high gold and trades exclusively? We probably don't want a mix? We also have the GLib to capture.

 

[I. Larkin]

Now we need military and money for MA and short rush. City with >10spt may produce MW in 2 (spear), 5 spt at 3 turns , 7 spt at 4 turns (worker), 6, well, at 5. MA is important not to let Spain trade Iron. Now Persia at War with Russia, but in peace russian Iron may go via Persian harbors. (In my experience). So if Russia make peace with Persia, we should bring them to war. Now it is more then 40 gpt. If Persia will make a Peace with spain France will able to trade Iron. It is Clear, with Knights and Pickmen war will be different.
Long term plans approximatly these: Capture Madrid. Stay away from education (opposite to previous game). Build Infra with Markets, corthouses may be some Libs. With Pyramids and ToA and big land we may compete with Sid AI. May be some local wars (Japan, AI's colonies in Spain). Suicide Galleys (With Lighthouse it is less risky). Looks that other continent AIs better, then ours. Have all contacs. Capture TGL (May be via RoP rape?) Then well, continue as "usual..."

 

[ThERat]

I agree with no research for the time being...as we are deprived of iron, we might be interested in gunpowder and saltpeter. With the amount of desert around, we should have that.

We should build some markets for higher profit for sure. By the way, how did you know that Spain has no native iron? Is that something CA2 reveals as I could see they have iron as a resource when going into the diplo mode.

 

[I. Larkin]

1)I agree with no research for the time being...as we are deprived of iron, we might be interested in gunpowder and saltpeter. With the amount of desert around, we should have that.

2)We should build some markets for higher profit for sure. By the way, how did you know that Spain has no native iron? Is that something CA2 reveals as I could see they have iron as a resource when going into the diplo mode.

1)And because of that Eng single Sci might be better than Feoudalism.

2)We have no our Iron, so at Diplo trade Spain should show Iron(0) extra (say) if they have one, like Persia. Now Russia and France have Iron(2) extra, and we have to block trade to Spain somehow. west-south part blocked by Japan, Persia East by Persia, but Russia has some harbors at East Coast. Not sure, however that there is aroad connection. It is resonable to check by scouting MW. Also F4 "trade mode" will show is trade route exists or not. But we need embassy for that. Alternative way is to check amount of Iron or France and Russia and "take care" if it will be less than 2 extra. (but Persia may pillage some...)