Sid avarage start

[ignas]

Another interesting idea is to make City near FRESH WATER LAKE with WHALS. Have you ever seen this in nature?

Yes, of course.


I'm OK with ROP rape. It's a part of a game and has consequences (reputation hit). Even with ROP rape it will be hard as Russians have loads of knights and pikemen.

So what about future? How do you want to win? Via military again?

The second continent is more advanced. They are somewhere near cavalry probably so we should get quite some techs from GLib.

How we'll keep up in tech? Build some libs or stealing? Techs are going to be expensive in late MA early IA. If we are going for militaristic victory all we need is Steam Power (rails) and Nationalism (riflemen and mobilization) to win

 

[I. Larkin]

hmm.. what a nice set I will face with entire anarchy...are we ready for a war with Russia right now?

I think better to finish Japan first.
Updated corruption results for Republic. As I mentioned we may want palace jump.

 

[ThERat]

I have played 8 turns and will finish the rest tonight. Japan was attacked once the deal had expired and after a 3 turn campaign, they are history.

We are now a republic and income has shot up to 300+gpt. Question is, do we want to trade for feudalism and get engineering from Germany as they lack feudalism? It would cost us a lot of gold though (something like 130gpt).

Our army in Russia has seen many knights from Russia. Persia and Russia still fight each other.

I think, if we gor for the RoP rape, we better get that done pretty soon as rifles would make such an adventure a nightmare. Also, if we go the RoP rape route, we need to aim for a military victory as our rep will be thrashed.

I will start moving our troops north anyway to prepare for whatever is in store.

 

[ThERat]

Pre-Turn
some MM to get a little more cash

1. 360AD
meet Celts and Babylon, both up all 3 techs
make some money (110gold) selling France our WM, get theirs too

2. 370AD
nothing much, drop settler a silks

3. 380AD
Japan has feudalism, we need to make sure they don't get iron
found St regis on top of the silks, Persia might not be too happy about that

4. 390AD
our deal with Japan is finally up and we can attack them
declare on them and start to take out the isolated horse stack of 8, kill 7 of them
attack Kyoto, take out 4 spears, losing 2 MW's and take the city
take out a spear/archer pair that could threaten our units
move towards Edo

IT japan loses the last 8th horse

5. 400AD
take Edo losing 2 MW's Japan has only 2 cities left
take out some japanese units in our land, the coast is pretty clear

IT Paris finishes bach

6. 410AD
preparing for the final strike

IT we finally become a republic

7. 420AD
take the final 2 cities and Japan is gone

IT no good as Ergili is Russian now

8. 430AD
after quelling resistance our units can start moving north

9. 440AD
our income continues to rise and we make already 372gpt

decide to use our spare cash to go for a steal with England. They are on the other continent and can do use no harm
with a mere 6 cities. We get this

and gain feudalism, get engineering +37 gold for feudalism
Rome and Germany do no have invention, the rest does

rush court in Chondote

10. 450AD
we have cash (564gold) for some rushes of courts. We can settle more cities as well, there is still space
I am not too sure whether we will be able to fight Russia like this. I guess we would need a good number of cavalry

We could get iron but it would cost us a lot of money

 

[I. Larkin]

I updated Corrution results in post #142. I calculatad effect as "multiper". Where coefficient larger that 1.5 it is better than Market for sure. Cities above red frame should grow to size 12 ASAP, may be workers joined.

We need Palace jump to NewNF, I think. Anybody knows utilite that can extract City position on Map somehow?
I mean 2 coordinates. In any system

To "finish game faster" I vote for RoP rape. We even may leave trade reputation clean.
Put "always renegotiate a deal" OFF, and RoP will exists until we cancel it before strike.
Our trade deal will expier in 9 turns, I think it just a time to transfer troops.
not sure, that we need Iron. Hopefully we get GP from TGL and most probably we have Salpeter.
Until MT MWs better, than Knights and for defence we will have Musketers.
In my turns I optimistically start "Road To Moscow", to make troops transfer easer. But really, we need some "military plan"

 

[Mumpulus]

Ok, I'm up. I'll probably get to play some tomorrow evening (23 hours from now), and finish on Tuesday evening.

Is anyone industrial yet? I think our own continent isn't very advanced, so we may have some time to go for the GL. If we do this, we might as well get some more from it. Do we shut down research completely? Do we try trading while we wait for the GL?

As far as military goes, I think I'll only be preparing this time (but of course, that's what I said last time too).

I don't like the lands around New Niagara Falls, so I wouldn't jump our palace there. And if we don't pick that spot, I can't see much improvement with any other spots, so I wouldn't move our palace at all. What are we to gain from it. If anyone knows of a utility like I. Larkin asks, that could shed some light on the question. Without further information, I wouldn't bother with a jump.

As far a military plan goes: we need to assess our enemy's strength (specifically if they have MT), and to build up sufficient forces for defense. I we're going for the RoP-rape, I'm sure we can handle a lot, even with the troops we have now.

 

[I. Larkin]

Re: Palace Jump. I am talking about "Future", palace jump with MGL.
Even now jump will give 6 gpt +, in a future about 30 gpt+. But it is not that much, Army may be better. NewNF has oasis around, it is huge bonus for Agri (irrigate).

I think regardless of AI's IA or not better to strike 10 turns from now. While Russia and Persia in war our chances are much better. I think we may steal/research to MT rather then risk to be defited.

 

[Mumpulus]

Ok, I'll see what I can do on the trade/steal/research front to acquire MT. We would obviously be more comfortable with cavalry. And I'll set up an attack on the Russians.

 

[Mumpulus]

0) 450AD

I lower lux to 0% and do a round of MM. We go from +398gpt to +432gpt, with faster growth and/or builds.

Rush the courthouse in Toledo.

We can get invention in 6 turns at 70% and +45gpt, or in 5 turns at 90% and -50gpt. With some money in the bank, but not nearly enough to trade or steal, I am inclined to do that.

I then take a look at our army, and I agree with Rat's assessment: our army is pitiful, and I don't think we would stand a chance. Still, our military advisor says we're strong compared to the Russians.

But I like the idea better of poaching some more land from the Russians and/or Persians by settling. I switch Kahnawake, New Salamanca, Osaka, and Yokohama to settlers. I also see three spots I'd like to settle in Japan/Spain.

So, after a 2 hour look at the save, my plan is:
- Self-research invention. Maybe we'll get lucky with a trading opportunity after that.
- rush settlers and settle aggressively in the gaps the Russians and Persians are leaving
- build infrastructure
- grow larger cities

 

[I. Larkin]

There is no harm if we settle far away from center, but the use of next ities is limited by Specialists farm. But it may be good stategic locatin for future wars.
It is logical not to research in forseeing of TGL, but invention will let us know who has GP. As I think, better strike soon, and research the rest normally. So may be some Libs already?

 

[ThERat]

If we are able to self research invention in 6 turns, we should start to boost our research capabilities with some libraries. And agree with strinking sooner rather than later. Just make sure to get some defense for our MW armies as well. Knights will make mince meat of them.

 

[Mumpulus]

0) 450AD - continued

I agree on the libraries, and switch some towns that weren't efficiently micromanaged for their current builds: Salamanca and Niagara Falls. Goigouen is switched to an aqueduct.

IT
The Celts ask us to leave; sure. Furs deal with the Persians ends, and they have nothing much to give for it now, so not renewed. The Russians offer to extend our RoP-agreement. I go along. In Magadan, one Persian spear dies, another redlines but holds.

Toledo: Courthouse > Marketplace
Grand River: Marketplace > Library

Rome has acquired Invention.

1) 460AD
We can only trade maps with the French and the Russians. These other civs aren't very advanced. Science can go back to 80%, ETA on invention still 4 turns at +8gpt.

Moving troops north and micromanaging.

IT
We get some more cultural expansions in Old Japan.

Allegheny: Galley > Library
Cattaraugus: Marketplace > Library
Tonawanda: Courthouse > Library

2) 470AD
Science goes down to 70%, still 3 turns to invention at +52gpt. All that with no libraries built so far. We have 27 scientists.

IT
The furs deal with the French is renewed; we get 13gpt instead of 8gpt.

Skannayutenate: Aqueduct > Settler
Caughnawaga: Harbor > Settler
Onnontare: Trebuchet > Aqueduct

3) 480AD
We are at +62gpt at 70%, with 28 scientists. Still no libraries.

IT
Salamanca: Library > Mounted Warrior
Kyoto: Settler > Settler
Niagara Falls: Library > Courthouse

4) 490AD
We are at +115gpt at 60%, with 36 scientists. Invention is due next IT.

IT
Invention is in, gunpowder is shown at 8 turns. Egypt has acquired feudalism.

Santiago: Worker > Settler
Oiogouen: Marketplace > Library
Goigouen: Aqueduct > Marketplace
Kawauka: Aqueduct > Courthouse

5) 500AD
Out of the 9 rivals left, 4 have gunpowder: England, France, Russia, and Babylon.

Found Larkamanca, start Courthouse.

Science goes back up to 90%, gunpowder is due in 5 turns at -46gpt, with 371 in the bank. We have 52 scientists.

IT
The Persians pillage a Russians source of horses.

Salamanca: Mounted Warrior > Mounted Warrior
Owego: Marketplace > Library

The French finish Magellan's Voyage in Lyons.

6) 510AD
We are running 90% science at -39gpt, with 55 scientists.

IT
We witness lots of exchanges between the Persians and the Russians, around Moscow. The French want to talk: they get our WM for 33g.

Grand River: Library > Mounted Warrior
Tonawanda: Library > Mounted Warrior

7) 520AD
Down to 80% science at +24gpt, with 55 scientists.

IT
The Persians clear their own lands and go on the offensive again.

Salamanca: Mounted Warrior > Mounted Warrior
Niagara Falls: Courthouse > Longbowman
Akwesasne: Marketplace > Library
Oka: Barracks > Settler
Tyendenaga: Marketplace > Library
Kahnawake: Settler > Settler

The Celts have acquired gunpowder, and we lose our supply of spices.

8) 530AD
Engineering goes to Egypt to get our spices back.

Science to 60% at +137gpt, with 46 scientists, gunpowder in 2 turns.

IT
Persians getting closer to Moscow...

Kyoto: Settler > Settler
Gayagaahe: Courthouse > Marketplace
NewNiagaraFalls: Settler > Settler
Nagoya: Settler > Settler
Yokohama: Settler > Aqueduct
Tonawanda: Mounted Warrior > Mounted Warrior
St-Regis: Marketplace > Courthouse
Centralia: Marketplace > Courthouse
Kente: Courthouse > Marketplace

9) 540AD
I shield Moscow from Russian reinforcements. Let's see if we can switch adversaries.

Science stays at 60%, with +133gpt and 50 scientists, gunpowder due on the IT.

IT
The Persians pillage a Russian iron source, but do not move on to Moscow.

Renew the incense deal with the Russians for gems and 46gpt.

Gunpowder comes in, start on chemistry in 9 turns.

Salamanca: Mounted Warrior > Musketman
Niagara Falls: Longbowman > Musketman
New Salamanca: Settler > Settler
Grand River: Mounted Warrior > Musketman
Allegheny: Library > Marketplace

10) 550AD
3 civs have chemistry (France, England, Babylon), Rome doesn't have gunpowder.

Found Ignawanda, start another settler.

Science goes up again to 80%, at -11gpt chemistry is due in 7 turns.

Sorry, no pictures, it's late. I'll post my thoughts on the future tomorrow morning. The short version for now: no RoP rape needed, just move everything northeast from Moscow, outside their borders, then attack on the second turn, use the Persians for cover. Even better version: the Persians take Moscow, or they soften up defenses.

 

[ThERat]

great progress...if Persia would take Moscow, that would be an interesting twist.

We have a deal with Russia, are we provoking them to declare soon? After we go for Russia, cavalry could help us go after the others

 

[Mumpulus]

My thoughts on the future: we won't get much from the GLib right now I think. Only a few techs that we can research ourselves in 4 turns each, or even trade for with a positive trade balance probably.

So I wouldn't go for the GLib right now. Let's hold on for a while and see if the Persians can capture it. They have a lot of knights nearby now, but must be discouraged to attack other targets.

I would propose an standard attack on the Russians, from the south, not to get more techs, but to get more territory. As soon as we get some muskets up, we can start with that. The Russians appear to be gassed.

 

[Mumpulus]

I. Larkin - On deck
TheRat
Mumpulus - just played
Ignas - Up

Elear - last activity april 17th

 

[I. Larkin]

My thoughts on the future: we won't get much from the GLib right now I think. Only a few techs that we can research ourselves in 4 turns each, or even trade for with a positive trade balance probably.

So I wouldn't go for the GLib right now. Let's hold on for a while and see if the Persians can capture it. They have a lot of knights nearby now, but must be discouraged to attack other targets.

I would propose an standard attack on the Russians, from the south, not to get more techs, but to get more territory. As soon as we get some muskets up, we can start with that. The Russians appear to be gassed.

Sure TGL is not a major issue. But I am not sure that better wait long time to take it.
We have MWs that goog advantage now, but it is nothing vs Rifels. I notice that Always negotiate deal is "on". Turn it "off", please. I don't like Gems deal, we pay a lot and are bounded for long time. But well, we are strong and can do whatever we like.
England pay all gold for MA vs Celts. We also may get Chemestry from England, that will be lot cheaper with this MA.

 

[Mumpulus]

I agree that the price for gems is steep, but I thought it is well worth it for now while we develop our economy. I wanted to keep lux low.

Our MWs will do well because we have so many of them, and because the Russians won't be able to muster much defense. Like I said, as soon as we have some muskets in place, we'll be ready to go. We have three cities capable of building 2-turn MWs/trebs.

If a good trading opportunity in connection with MAs presents itself, by all means go for it. But if we can't get much out of it, I wouldn't bother. I don't remember how much gold the English have, but it can't be overwhelming. I think it's better to keep global relations as simple as possible unless it provides us a really big benefit. The Celts and English have been at a status quo for some time now; let's not influence that too much. Any influence could be for the better, but also for the worse.

 

[ignas]

Got it, will look at save tonight and should finish my turns before Monday.

 

[ignas]

I need a skip. Sorry for not saying earlier.

I.Larkin is up

 

[I. Larkin]

I need a skip. Sorry for not saying earlier.

I.Larkin is up

OK, will play today/tomorrow, and may be after. I am going to trade Chem from England with MA vs Celts.
4 turns report: Nothing intersting, exept other continent allied vs Celts (All). France declare Russians and agrees to pay about 500 for MA. Army Strong vs Russians, average vs Persia amd Weak vs France.