Sid Domination Game for AnthonyIII

[creamcheese]

The AIs have a 40% discount on growing (see below), and a 40% discount on production of units and buildings.

lurker's comment: Well if you call it a discount it is a 60% discount. If you call it a bonus it is still a 60% bonus. If you ask how many shields/food they need, it is 40% of the normal cost, but 60% off the normal cost.

 

[Spoonwood]

lurker's comment: Well if you call it a discount it is a 60% discount. If you call it a bonus it is still a 60% bonus. If you ask how many shields/food they need, it is 40% of the normal cost, but 60% off the normal cost.

You're right about it as a 60% discount. But, if you call it a bonus, it's also a "bonus" on starvation, which I find strange sounding. Nonetheless, the AIs pay or lose 40% of what you pay or lose. So, if you pillage out AI cities (not that I do this... though the option certainly comes on the table if AnthonyIII wants to do that), the AIs more quickly head towards starvation on Sid than anywhere else with a full food box.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Spoonwood, sorry I didn't play when I said yesterday, I had forgotten that we had relatives coming to visit. Also going to see familiy today, so I can play earliest in about 10-11 hours time.

 

[Spoonwood]

Spoonwood, sorry I didn't play when I said yesterday, I had forgotten that we had relatives coming to visit. Also going to see familiy today, so I can play earliest in about 10-11 hours time.

No problem at all.

 

[AnthonyIII]

0-1300BC: Look around, thing look much better than the last time I played. We have incoming gpt! And more to come...

1-1275C: Forest harvested to 004. Worker uilt in 001, starts new worker. Temple done in 005, starts worker. The Byzantines are building the GL. So are the Sumerians. Leave our "stack of trade" where they belong, just outside 001. Worker in front of them goes to mine join in as we need 6 workers for out next trick. Newly finished worker also goes to join in. We have our stack. Worker outside 009 goes to mine hill. Worker outside 006 is ON marshland, might as well begin to clear it. Another worker outside 006 head towards hill outside 010. Worker on desert outside 003 starts roading desert. Worker between 003 and 004 also starts road on reg G. Worker starts mining hill outside 010. Ahh, the settler... Did you prefer to wait with that one, Spoonwood? Could not find anything now, so I'll plant it. 011 planted on hill beside 007. Send worker in Sumeria towards Byzantine, maybe we can get a road to Greece.

2-1250BC: Sumeria and Byzantines bootes us. Warrior fortifies in 005. Worker mine outside 005. Workers outside 007 to 011 to improve land. A worker already there, starts mining that hill. The Republic is out there. I try to grab it.

I'd like you to take it from here Spoonwood and write how you managed the first level techs from the other AI's. I came as far as this:

1. Cut road. All tiles to tax collectors. Cancels our incense. Rebuild road.
2. Call up Sumeria. Trade Construction, 7 gold(all they have) and Ivory for 70 gpt. Road gets cut again.
3. Rebuild road. Call up Sumeria again. They already have Feudalism and Engineering... Trade Ivory and The Republic for 89 gpt. Cut road.

So we have The Republic and can trade for resources before we revolt. But I was not so sure about the gifting and obtaining the first level techs, since all our gpt are going into the Republic. I'm sure I've misunderstood something!

Anyway, you can play the last of this turn and the next if you like.

 

[Spoonwood]

Ahh, the settler... Did you prefer to wait with that one, Spoonwood? Could not find anything now, so I'll plant it.

Actually, I don't like planting a city on the hill at the moment, since Kisurra's borders have expanded, so the settler will just scout or something for a while until later on in the game.

I'm not sure if we want a city there or not. We certainly don't want to incite Sumeria to attack us. The more I think about it, the more I think it might not provoke Sumeria, but I'm not sure. Planting the city, not planting it, or disbanding the city all come as options.

1. Cut road. All tiles to tax collectors. Cancels our incense. Rebuild road.
2. Call up Sumeria. Trade Construction, 7 gold(all they have) and Ivory for 70 gpt. Road gets cut again.
3. Rebuild road. Call up Sumeria again. They already have Feudalism and Engineering... Trade Ivory and The Republic for 89 gpt. Cut road.

So we have The Republic and can trade for resources before we revolt. But I was not so sure about the gifting and obtaining the first level techs, since all our gpt are going into the Republic. I'm sure I've misunderstood something!

If you're trading for ivory and The Republic with gpt, and then disconnecting, you shouldn't end up paying any gpt to the AIs. You can check if you have any gpt going to the AIs by looking under details in the F4 screen. I also suggest disconnecting and reconnecting every single turn even if you only pick up lump sums of gpt. Obtaining Construction here seems the better thing to do first on this turn...

1. disconnect-reconnect.

2. Check to see if Sumeria and Russia have any gpt by offering them at least 18 gold (I usually offer them all my gold, a tech, or even a luxury or resource as I find this quicker... though I never complete this deal.)

3. Trade 58 gpt to Sumeria for Ivory, Construction, and 7 gold (I don't know why you traded so much gpt... if you want a lot of techs in one turn, haggle... if you only have one to obtain, then haggling won't matter).

4. Trade 46 gpt and Construction to Russia for Spices, The Republic, and 13 gold.

5. disconnect-reconnect.

6. I apologize for not speaking more clearly on this. Other than Engineering the techs come as too difficult to purchase this turn. So, I'll ring someone up to gift. Babylon looks good, since they don't like us much at the moment. It also makes for a good idea to get everyone The Republic as soon as you can, so they get richer (which implies us getting richer soon enough). It also probably comes as a good idea to get them Construction, and especially Currency.

Sell Construction to Babylon for 3 gpt and 27 gold. Click out of Hammy's screen, and then back in and he has Feudalism as his free tech. He won't take The Republic for it.

7. Sell Construction to Greece for 4 gold. Greece gets Monotheism.

8. Trade 93 gpt to Sumeria for Ivory and Engineering.

9. Trade The Republic and Engineering to Greece for Monotheism. Greece went from Polite to Annoyed, which I guess happened, since Greece instantly became a Republic, as the F3 advisor tells me.

10. Trade The Republic and Engineering to Babylon for Feudalism.

11. We don't need it, but were I playing histographic, I'd probably do this next strep: Trade Monotheism to Sumeria for Monarchy.

12. Disconnect once more and reconnect.

13. Pay 18 gpt for Ivory and Silks from Sumeria.

14. Pay 9 gpt to Russia for Spices.

15. Now revolt.

16. Then reset all tax collectors.

Do NOT disconnect during the anarchy period. Workers work too slowly during this period , and we don't have gpt available really, even if we had enough around. On all other turns, there's almost surely something to get from the AIs. Please go back and play your full 5 turns. You'll learn more that way.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Wow, amazing. Alright, will play my 5 turns later tonight. Thanks a lot.

EDIT: Was able to squeeze in the 5 turns now! It's looking good, we're soon out of anarchy.

0-1300BC: Look around, thing look much better than the last time I played. We have incoming gpt! And more to come...

1-1275C: Forest harvested to 004. Worker uilt in 001, starts new worker. Temple done in 005, starts worker. The Byzantines are building the GL. So are the Sumerians. Leave our "stack of trade" where they belong, just outside 001. Worker in front of them goes to mine join in as we need 6 workers for out next trick. Newly finished worker also goes to join in. We have our stack. Worker outside 009 goes to mine hill. Worker outside 006 is ON marshland, might as well begin to clear it. Another worker outside 006 head towards hill outside 010. Worker on desert outside 003 starts roading desert. Worker between 003 and 004 also starts road on reg G. Worker starts mining hill outside 010. Ahh, the settler... Did you prefer to wait with that one, Spoonwood? Could not find anything now, so I'll plant it. 011 planted on hill beside 007. Send worker in Sumeria towards Byzantine, maybe we can get a road to Greece.

2-1250BC: Sumeria and Byzantines bootes us. Warrior fortifies in 005. Worker mine outside 005. Workers outside 007 to 011 to improve land. Worker outside 009 starts road. The Republic is out there. I try to grab it. I do EXACTLY as Spoonwood did above and everything is good. I revolt. Spoonwood, I've now found out why I did not quite understand this before, I disconnected the road too early. It was my understanding that I could only make deals with one AI pr disconnect. However, I think I got it now! But will practice more. Everyone is back to tiles, and we revolt.

3-1225BC: The Anarchy. Wow, only one city riots and that is 009! I've never had only one city riot during the first turn of the anarchy. Luxes are at 0%. Worker improve land outside 011. The other one I sent there can't get there because of an enkidu warrior. I send him to help mine a mountain. Check in on neighbours. Sumeria has a got a good amount of gpt available... at least 40 gpt. However, I don't disconnect during anarchy.

4-1200BC: Greeks are building Sun Tzu's. So are the Germans and the Sumerians. 009 does not revolt anymore. Zzzzz....

5-1175BC: The Germans and the Sumerians are building the Great Wall. Worker mine outside 004. Worker mine roaded desert outside 003.

I'm really looking forward to next 20-25 turns. I wonder what the Koreans are up to-not like them to be so isolated... Or is it?

 

[Spoonwood]

Korea could be on an island by themselves. We don't know.

0-1175 BC-Why do you have a worker near 011 mining a plains square, especially with 4 mountains around there? I also see a worker mining a desert square?!?!?!?!? Irrigation of desert squares comes as rough enough in most cases (only mine a desert square if a city has already hit size 12 or will soon reach it). The workers near 001 could have mined that spot or irrigated the plains we couldn't use or something, though I guess that comes as confusing. I see something else you have a worker doing that we simply cannot have a worker doing for this to work without significantly changing our strategy at the very least. Please open the save and find it, and I think it best if I don't play my turn set until you find it.

Edit: I see another thing with workers in more than one place, which I know we've talked about a few times before also.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Alright, will check it out. I usually try to get the falt land worked first before I start on mountains. I should have irrigated, I guess? Will go through the save a bit later. Happy new year!

 

[AnthonyIII]

So I just opened the save again. And wow. I can understand you were a bit disappointed with me. The first thing I see is that I have a worker roading one of the squares next to 001, which we have clearly agreed is not going to happen. I'm a bit embarrased. I also notice the plains worker and the desert worker as you've pointed out... I've alse got a worker roading the forest between 006 and 009. Is that the other thing? I've also sent a worker to unroaded tiles two times, one of the times it was because of an enkidu warrior standing on the tile he was thought to improve and I had to thing different. I will load up a new save with the worst blunders fixed.

EDIT: I now see I started to road that forest on purpose to connect 009 to our road network as it's surrounded by 4 forest squares and the road has to come from the east. Uploaded new save with worker previously mining desert left alone, he's just finished a road. Worker mining plains is now roading. Worker that was roading our capital earlier is now mining a hill outside 001. Replayed from after disconnect-reconnect. Hope this is more suitable to our plan. I'm really sorry though, I don't know what came over me roading that capital square. And now I've learnt it's a no-go to mine deserts early!

 

[Spoonwood]

I've also sent a worker to unroaded tiles two times, one of the times it was because of an enkidu warrior standing on the tile he was thought to improve and I had to thing different.

This was the "other thing". The forest road I actually thought a good idea, because otherwise we would have overrun on a temple.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Aha, good. Yes, I did not know what to do with him as the enkidu warrior was standing on the tile our worker should've improved. So I take it we can continue?

 

[Spoonwood]

0-1175 BC move worker on desert to flood plain square. Sign RoP with Sumeria for 40 gold, let's get our worker back and try not to make them angry. Move warrior out of 005 to iron spot. All border cities come as very, very vulnerable to flips. So, I wouldn't recommend putting units in border cities unless we're at war with that neighbor. Swap 003 to a worker. Change 004 from a temple to a marketplace. Change 005 from a worker to an aqueduct.

1-1150 BC Babylonians and Germans start Great Wall. Irrigate flood plains.

2-1125 BC Sumerians start Sistine Chapel. No one else has Theology. Use tax collector in 001 so it doesn't revolt. Wake 2 of the 6 workers from the stack... something I should have done earlier. One goes to the jungle. The other to the regular grassland outside 005.

3-1100 BC Purchase Wines and 8 gold from Babylon for 8 gpt.

4-1075 BC Become Republic. Moscow completes Great Library. Byzantines start (cascade to?) Great Wall. Sumerians start (cascade to Sistine Chapel).

1. Disconnect.

2. Reconnect.

3. Sumeria sends us 26 gpt for 468 gold.

4. 40 gpt to Sumeria for Ivory and 549 gold.

5. Babylon has 46 gpt, but we can't afford all that with just one more disconnect. Oh well. 40 gpt from Babylon for 720 gold.

6. 107 gpt to Babylon for Wines, 785 gold, and Monarchy.

7. Spices and 27 gold from Russia for 11 gpt.

8. Disconnect-reconnect.

9. 9 gpt to Russia for Spices.

10. 8 gpt to Babylon for Wines.

11. 18 gpt to Sumeria for Ivory and Silks.

Cash-rush granary in 002, since it'll grow in 2 turns. Swap 007 to a marketplace. Cash-rush granary in 006.

5-1050 BC 001 worker-worker. 002 granary-temple. 006 temple-aqueduct. 010 granary-marketplace. Babylon completes Great Wall. Pick up 13 gpt from Babylon... I don't plan all trades from here on out, though I would like you to put up everytime you pick up more gpt from the AIs. The rate goes 1 gpt for 18 gold. Buy worker-temple in 002. Worker from 001 joins stack.

I wouldn't do much more cash rushing at this point. Try to get as much gpt from the luxury source AIs as you can every turn. Pick up Theology when we can. It'll come as worth it to cash-rush the aqueduct in 005, but I'd wait until we have 2 turns left on it. Once we have 6 workers for the disconnect spot, and 4 for the iron hill, we want the other workers to finish jobs and help grow our cities. Right now we need markets and aqueducts mostly.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Got it, will play tonight.

 

[AnthonyIII]

When do we need 4 workers on the iron hill? Should each one of them go there and wait until they are four? And when you say"finish jobs and help grow our cities", do you mean improve more land or joining in the cities?

 

[Elephantium]

lurker's comment:
Would you guys mind posting a couple of pictures once in a while? It makes it easier for lurkers like me to follow your progress

 

[Spoonwood]

When do we need 4 workers on the iron hill? Should each one of them go there and wait until they are four? And when you say"finish jobs and help grow our cities", do you mean improve more land or joining in the cities?

The 4 workers can go to the hill once we have Chivalry and have started on some horseman. We could even have a few horseman out before we do this. No rush there. I mean workers should improve as much land as possible basically, and then join cities. If you're unclear on that, just improve the land.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Sweet! Thanks for clarifying. Elephantium, will do so!

 

[AnthonyIII]

0-1050BC:Look around. Rename Macao to 011. I must have forgotten. Hit enter.

1-1025BC: Sumeria and Russia make peace. 001 worker-worker. 002 Temple-Aqueduct. 003 worker-Temple to pick up flood plains. Sumeria finishes the Sistine Chapel. Wow, what a neighbour... in 1050BC! Worker on hill outside 011 starts road. Worker on flood plains start road. Worker on hill oustide 004 mine roaded mountain. Workers outside 011 road each their mountain. Worker roads forest outside 003. Hmm... There is no obvious job for the worker finished in 003. Send him towards 011 to improve land. We have six workers in our stack now. Check F4.

1. Disconnect-reconnect. Find that Russia have 12g and 6 gpt we can get. Sumeria has 3 gpt and Theology which we can't afford now as they have monopoly on it.

2. Sumeria gives 3gpt for 54 gold. Russia gives 6 gpt for 108g. Babylon is broke. 14 gpt to Sumeria for 83 and ivory. 16 gpt to Russia for 120g and spices.

3. Disconnect-reconnect. 18gpt to Sumeria for Ivory and silks, 9 gpt to Russia for spices, 8 gpt to Babylon for wines.

2-1000BC: Forest harvested to 006. 001 worker-Temple. Border expansion outside 005. Workers finishes mining outside 001. Now there I see no obvious jobs for these to do and potential jobs are all 2 moves away. I decide to send those two to help clear marsh and the newly finished worker from 001 to help clear jungle outside 005. Hope that was OK. Worker mine reg g outside 009. Worker finished plains outside 011, head to parallel plains. Check if we can get Theology now. We can. Get Theology and silks for 884g and 179 gpt. Disconnect-reconnect. Silks, 915g and 5gpt from Sumeria for 189gpt. Disconnect-reconnect. They have education. Make normal deals again. Hit enter.

3-975BC: Hmm... Kisurra gets border expansion. Worker roading flood plains outside 003 heads to mountain outside 002. Same does worker roading desert nearby, they get there at the same time. We're running out of jobs close by so again, I hope this is OK. Worker to jungle to clear(same thing as above.) Worker irrigates plains in front of 011. Let's try some wheeling & dealing. Russia is broke, Babylon have 13gpt to spare. Sumeria is also broke but have education. I trade 1069g and 190gpt for Education and Silks. Then disconnect-reconnect. 71gpt to Sumeria for 1102g and silks. 21 gpt to Babylon for 13gpt and Wines. Dis/reconnect. Make normal deals. Enter.

4-950BC: Border expansion outside 006! Worker road mine outside 009. No deals to make.

5-925BC: Border expansion outside 002! babylon are building Leonardo's. Leave all as it is for you. You can pick up invention now! Feel free to change temple build in 001 and other builds I might have donw wrong, but sticked to temples and aqueducts as you said.

I must say I'm really amazed y the tech pace and in this game. If we were going for a spaceship win we could proably launch around 400-500AD? Also, is the tech pace faster than the actual game? I mean we have all those techs-so does the AI's-but we don't have time to use those techs to anything because the game is so fast moving? Of course this doesn't matter in our game, because we're going for domination, but in a 20k wonders would go obsolete before we could have built them! It's really fascinating. Am I starting to understand the disconnect-reconnect?

PICTURES!

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[Spoonwood]

Worker roads forest outside 003.

This worker probably could have chopped and then roaded without any shield overrun.

001 worker-Temple... Feel free to change temple build in 001 and other builds I might have donw wrong, but sticked to temples and aqueducts as you said.

No, I said

Right now we need markets and aqueducts mostly.

1. I thought I had mentioned here, but I can't seem to find it at the moment, that 001 can basically put out workers for a good long time. Basically until we have all our cities grown and developed.

2. Why does anyone build temples in the first place? Since we're playing for domination, we can pick up a few extra tiles before we go to war (which we won't have to pick up later) via temples. This isn't necessarily the best choice by any means. Just leaving things as they lay without temples, and going with settlers later may have worked better. But, I put in some temples in some spots for those few extra tiles earlier. The point here comes as that you need to understand the reasons for doing something... just building temples because other cities did so, simply won't help you out in general.

That said, we can only use temples in selected spots. The capital basically never will pick up more territory via a temple in any game.

If we were going for a spaceship win we could proably launch around 400-500AD?

That sounds pretty early. The AIs won't necessarily keep up this pace, and will fall into the same path in the industrial ages, as well as researching plenty of optionals in the high middle ages.

I decide to send those two to help clear marsh and the newly finished worker from 001 to help clear jungle outside 005.

Clearing marsh and jungle comes as a possible exception where stacking workers on unroaded territory can make sense.

Get Theology and silks for 884g and 179 gpt.

Overall, what you did seems to have not cost us any gold. However, it'll probably work better to NOT send them any gold except when getting gpt from them. So, if we had enough gpt to get Theology that turn, pick it up. You generally want only 2 deals per turn. The third warrior and extra 2 workers (or 3 if playing non-industrious), I really only have around for turns when I start or wars or in case I need another pillage and roading to get as much gpt as I can.

Of course this doesn't matter in our game, because we're going for domination, but in a 20k wonders would go obsolete before we could have built them!

I think you answered your own questions. You don't build wonders for their effects (most of the time) in a 20k. You build them for their culture. Plenty of wonders don't expire, and there always exist new techs to use.

The only cities that can use temples are 002, for those flood plains, 007 for the flood plain, 006 maybe, 008 works nice for the whale, and 005. Opening the save I see two workers out together on an unroaded plain!

I'm not entirely sure that your time would come as better spent playing a lower level game at this point. Actually, to speak quite honestly, I'm not sure I can help you all that much (and today isn't the first day I've started thinking this), because, among other things, even though I know I've said a few times now not to stack workers on unroaded squares in general, and I feel confident I've explained why not to do so (one of the workers near 011 could have gone to a mountain square), you keep on doing so. That said, if we continue, 1. go back and chop instead of roading that forest, 2. don't stack workers on unroaded cleared flatland (plains, grassland especially and generally not forests either)! 3. put workers and only workers out of 001 until much, later. Things go much more smoothly if cities grow faster overall, via worker add-ins especially. If you play a turn set, please finish it, and always finish your turn set.

But, as I said, I don't see how I can help you all that much. I don't know why, but it doesn't seem you follow others notes all that well... or at least much, much more slowly than I would expect. Things can get much worse later if you don't play carefully while warring. This isn't to say that I won't continue, but that I have very significant reservations here as to this coming as a good use of my time. If you have questions, feel free to ask, and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

But, if playing some sort of succession game, I want to know that certain things will happen and others will not when the save comes back to me. If I've left notes to do or not do certain things, and it appears that we've agreed on certain things getting done or not happening, then I feel very frustrated when the save comes back very different than I expected.

I will say at least this:

An industrious worker (before Replaceable Parts) takes 3 turns to chop a forest and 2 turns to road a grassland or plains square. If such an industrious worker roads a forest it takes him 4 turns to road, and will still take him 3 turns to chop the forest. That's 5 total worker turns chopping and then after that roading. Roading the forest and then chopping after that takes 7 total worker turns. For non-industrious workers it's 7 worker turns vs. 10 worker turns.