Sid variant

[I. Larkin]

Gift Russia to the new age: Engineering.
Gift Babylon: Feudalism.
Gift Sumeria: Feudalism.
Gift Greece: Engineering.

I thought that it is clear!

Everybody agrees that
1) Our line of research is Theology, Education, Astro, Navigation?
2) We Trade after anarchy.
3) We need Monotheism only.
4) Greeks gifted to MA first, Russians Second?

Do WE declare? so no WH??
Gift Sumeria "for free??" Not for MA vs France?

Cleo wants an alliance vs Gilgamesh. I counter-propose *just* a RoP and she's in with 5g for us.

will it trash our rep if Sumeria kill Cleo? Probably not. But I woud't boud myself for 20 turns for 5 gold...
Trade to Sumeria was NO-NO!. Now France will have Feo, and in a future it will be very difficult to war with Sumeria.

 

[I. Larkin]

In fact, as we grow, Republic will come "soonner", even if we swich on lux 20%. May I suggest that Beorn "revolt", bring warrior to position and then we discuss declare or not. To "inverstigate" french City is only 14 gold, may be resonable to do that. I suggest also "short poprush" of Aqueduct in Whale City, I mean poprush Corthouse and swich back to Aqueduc.

Big trade and Declare war is important step, I wrote because of that:

 

[Own]

I'm up and can play. I assume I continue research on Monotheism after anarchy, or not? And I'll build spears instead of horses, they are no longer useful now that france is off. Spears will upgrade to muskets and help our first invasion of someone.

Do we know what France will research next?

 

[I. Larkin]

Own, it is difficult situation We have to make MA ASAP
do you know, how to make MA in combination with Peace Treaty?

 

[I. Larkin]

Loked at save. Well. Galey in the Sea. We have only two, but France have many. Put the last one near TipToe, may be we will delay France for a while.
Attack French Galley, if appear. We have to not let them contact with Greks.

Click at Peace preaty with Sumeria, Say "Yes, absolutly", add military Aliance with France, and give Litreture or Monarchy.

The same pocedure possible with Rome and Persia, but, probably it is "no use". AIs terrible at overseas war. But france, probaly may unload in Rome?
What else to do in Anarchy? Don't know... Do not trade Republic, unless for Monotheism.
After Anarchy we needs Galleys first of all, we may want ffew more Horses for effective defence. 2-3 Spears may be OK also. Geek will build Corthouse after Aqueduct.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Well sorry for trading before the anarchy, I missed that part when I read the comments before playing.

So, why would we want to ally Sumeria against France? In either way this could end, the one gaining an upper hand will become a runaway and we could do without that.

 

[I. Larkin]

Well sorry for trading before the anarchy, I missed that part when I read the comments before playing.

So, why would we want to ally Sumeria against France? In either way this could end, the one gaining an upper hand will become a runaway and we could do without that.

We need war happines. It is equivalent of 2 LUX. France will make peace with Sumeria sonner or later and war with sumeria will give war happines. Then if we have a chance we may land in Sumeria. The same with Rome, but that will not work, because they are " can't fight".
BTW, did you ask France "Remove or declare?"

 

[Own]

I see we're still at disagreement, so I'll hold off on playing just yet. I'm trying to catch up, but some posts I simply don't understand. I get the peace and MA part, but what's the point of that?

I have a few questions-
After anarchy, what do I research?
Should I sign allainces ever?
Which SCI civs, if any, and when, should I gift up to MA?

 

[I. Larkin]

I see we're still at disagreement, so I'll hold off on playing just yet. I'm trying to catch up, but some posts I simply don't understand. I get the peace and MA part, but what's the point of that?

I have a few questions-
1)After anarchy, what do I research?
2)Should I sign allainces ever?
3)Which SCI civs, if any, and when, should I gift up to MA?

Little more details in my article "war happines works!", the point is that sumeria and France will not fight 20 turns, and when they make Peace we get WH from sumeria. Then we may make Peace with France.

1)We research Monotheism, full speed. If we lucky tu get Mono from germany, Theology full speed.
2) I think only Sumeria will "help". In war with France. Please make this Alliance asap.
3) If you meet Germany (Last Sci) you may try to gift them to MA AFTER Anarchy .
I hope, Monarchy, Lit, Eng will be enough for Monotheism. If not Don't know shall we trade monoply tech. Better stop and discuss. Do not trade monopoly Republic.
Do not cave!

 

[Own]

Pre-turn- Renegotiate peace with Sumeria, put in alliance vs. france, throw in monarchy and it's a deal. MM a little for some extra growth.

1. On the IBT Egypt and France sign a military alliance against us. Hooray! The rampaging Sumerians destroy the Egyptians... . Our people
were happy for about 9 seconds. Shame we had an MPP with Egypt, we could've gotten 300 gold and war happiness by signing in persia and
Sumeria against them, then watching them die next turn. Ah well.

2. Btw, our galley from last turn made it across. And we kill a French galley with a galley of ours!!! I prepare ten brave warriors to sacrifice
themselves in IRRIGATE so that their body parts can be used to build half of a library there.

3. Not much.

4. Persia and France sign a military alliance against us. I haven't decided if that's good or not, depends on how close persia is to us. I can't
find them on the map, so that's probably good. Huh, the war happinas hasn't kicked in yet, so I can't change entertainers to scientists. Maybe
we have to be a republic. 10 warriors mass suicide in IRRIGATE. Galley spots blue borders.

5. The DA calls me "revolutionary" and informs me that a library was completed in IRRIGATE, even though I could've sworn that I didn't sacrifice enough warriors. It is now making a barracks. Starvation at Cow's End. I meet Germany, and they're down Alphabet and Monarchy.

What should we do now? Here's a save. I'll finish tomorrow. Oh and by the way, the save says 250 AD but I meant BC.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I prepare ten brave warriors to sacrifice themselves in IRRIGATE so that their body parts can be used to build half of a library there.

What should we do now? Here's a save. I'll finish tomorrow. Oh and by the way, the save says 250 AD but I meant BC.

Now that we've started trading, we might as well get whatever Germany has to offer - if it's Monotheism, all the better. Down like they are, chances are we won't need to worry about them sharing the knowledge much. Trading it for Feudalism, for instance, would throw Germany in the next worst thing to anarchy for a while. We're almost out of anarchy anyways... unless it changes anything.

I'd disband boats when we get Republic: all contacts are made, we don't *need* them anymore, though the home galley is a keeper. More maps are nice but more gold is too. Same for the boys in FP city: disband for 4 shields (Hollywood could use it for a lib), keep the actually useful troops we got in the north.

Btw, I noticed Elephantine was in French hands, but they didn't take it from Sumeria: it was acquired a long time ago from Cleo.

 

[ThERat]

I think though we are in republic, we need to make sure to have some troops to not invite the AI to invade us.

What is the long term strategy now? Going for education and hoping to stay in the trading game?

 

[Own]

Ok, so gift germany up and try to get mono, but don't trade republic for it? I don't think that will be a problem, because feud and engineering are probably monopolies to them, and feud having a government involved makes it mega expensive.

How do they not have alphabet yet :crazyeyes: ?

I'll disband all boats at sea. Shame, because we could've used them to upgrade to caravels or something.

Longterm game plan should be to invade rome (perfect target, they're ironless and backwards), get some leaders, and use them to methodically conquer a superpower of our choice. I'll start building spears to upgrade as soon as we're done with anarchy. Even though Rome is tiny, they'll have plenty of units to kill for leaders, trust me.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Rome with muskets sounds great.

 

[Own]

5. (continued) Gift Germany up and they get monotheism as free tech. And they give it to us for engineering and feudalism. Work is begun on
Theology.

6. Cathy asks me to leave or declare. I leave. An exploring galley grabs some popcorn as fortifies to watch some French and Sumerians battle.

7. We're a republic now. I raise lux to 20%, and SCI to 80%. After firing a
s many clowns as possible, we have theology in 16 turns. Not terrible.
I disband all useless units, and we're losing 25 gpt now.

8. Cow's End duct > market. I see that we're somewhat far from gunpowder, so we'd prefer to not have to pay upkeep for many spears, and that there are many luxes available to trade for after we get astro and or navigation, so we'll want happiness. And we'll run out of our treasury eventually and we'll want a commerce bonus. Seems worthwhile to build them, since we could only build spears instead.

9. Geek duct > market.

10. Japan and France sign a military allaince against us. Hollywood lib > market. I don't get it, there's still no war happiness.

Discussion Stuff-

I. Peace with France?
France will talk, and they will give us invention for peace, republic, and monotheism. Are we ready to give up our monopoly? I think it's worthwhile, since it can't last much longer. I'm in favor of doing it.

II. Markets?
In a research game, markets appear to have little value, and that may be true. But Sumeria has dyes and ivory to trade, France has incense, Babylon has furs, and Russia has spices. We have more than enough wines and silks to get us all of those without paying a cent, and every AI has them in excess so it's unlikely that they'll trade all of them to other AIs before to us. I think that makes markets worthwhile, and our big treasury will eventually runout, so we'll need the commerce bonus eventually as well. I'm for em, and let's build em now, while there's nothing better to build like uni's or muskets.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I think Geek could use a traight-up prebuild for Copernicus, at this point. I'd skip the market.

I agree on massing markets though, while in the mean time we shouldn't disregard building military at all. It is extra cost but if we want to be ready when the time comes, we'll need troops.

There's no WH since you need to get declared on straight up, not through alliance, for WH to happen. We declared on France, so no luck there.

 

[Own]

I see, sad. About the trade with France, I forgot that we still have an alliance with Sumeria against them, so we can't do it. Our reputation in this game is far to valuable. Hopefully their little war will end soon.

 

[ThERat]

what's up with the roster...I think we have someone missing

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I think this is the roster:

Ivan Larkin
Beorn-eL-Feared
Own
ignas - UP
ThERat - on deck

 

[I. Larkin]

Sorry pals, out of shape a bit. Mother in law died yesterday. I will be "out" 8-11 November for sure. So I will need a skip if my turns will be these days.
Can't really focus on game, but what have happend confirm my "theory". No WH if MA against us. As I see we have very small military. We need more horses if France unload in different points. We need more veteran galleys to defend coastal line. Few spears also OK, AI respect spears...
Markets are useless. Coastal Cities have to build Harbors and veterans Galleys. Toxi will be disbanded in IA so Market is not a good investnent. Aqueducts in "IRRIGATE" also. Remote Cities will need Corthouses, but some of them will be disbanded also, so may be later.
But Geek Corthouse anyway. We can't trade before Navigation. But it will take a long time to research it. We may ignore AI's Invention until finish Navigation.
It was wrong idea to disband scouting Galleys. Better to know map better. It has value more then 2 gpt. For example, if Germany and Persia in a contact? If yes why not to arrande MA? You know what? Next turn (or this turn) Germany will trade Mono to Persia and France will get Mono from TGL. we will loose Copernicus race in this circumstanses. We may have 1 more settler from Irrigate and have 1 more City to get North Whale. Then Irrigate may pump workers that come to Costal Cities.