Sid Vicious and The Magnificent 7+1

[grahamiam]

Why would we want to borrow the cows from Delhi?

I would vote for Pink Dot (not shown yet) on the plains between red and blue. Red and blue make pink, right? Then the third city directly on the spices.

Ok, good enough question. I’ll show the team the calc’s that are in my head, then we can decide

The following calc assumes we take my preference and settle on the green.

Dehli (with a granery)
CC = 2f, 1s
Irrigated cow = 4f, 1s
Mined cow = 3f, 2s
2x Mined BG = 4f, 4s

So, at size 4.5, Dehli makes 13fpt (+5fpt) and 8spt (gets 10 shields on growth) for 10f and 10s during the 1st turn of the cycle.
At size 5, Dehli can work the 3rd BG (assumes unmined, as we are limited in workers atm) for 15fpt (+5fpt) and 10spt. This will get us a settler when we grow to size 6, bringing us down to size 4 and 8spt.
Not so good so I propose the following:
- At size 4.5, we get 10 shields. At 5.0, we get 10 shields as well. So, our 1st build in the cycle is an archer or chariot.
- At 5.5, we start our 1st settler, finishing it when we grow to size 7, taking us down to size 5. (we don’t need more spt, so just work a river grass to keep the fpt up to +5).
- Now at size 5, we build our 2nd settler of the cycle, and finish at 6.5, taking us down to size 4.5.
- build the archer/chariot again.

This cycle will net us 2 settlers and 1 archer/chariot every 8T.

Green dot (with a granery)
CC =2f, 1s
Irrigated cow = 4f, 1s
2x mined BG = 4f, 4s

So, at size 3, green dot makes 10fpt (+4fpt) and 5spt (assumes 1 shield lost to corruption).
At size 4, green dot can work an irrigated plain or mined grass for 12fpt (+4fpt) and 6spt (-1). Gets us a settler every 6T (4 shields wasted, 4 food total wasted). We should also throw in some warriors and lots of workers for builds as well.

Now that I've fleshed this out, I disagree with my previous statement of delaying Dehli's granery. We should build it ASAP. Green dot as well.

 

[microbe]

lurker's comment: Two settler factories are good, but there are two problems:

1. By the time you start pumping out settlers, do you have enough land to grab? Sid AI is supposed to expand quickly.
2. Can you keep up production of escort and garrision with settlers?

 

[Sirian]

OK, that's a good answer. Delhi only needs two of the cows. But that also means the second city only needs to borrow one cow (or to keep it permanently), and with that sugar out there, I still like pink dot in absolute terms. Might be other good stuff under the fog.

We mined and irrigated the wrong cows for Pink Dot to work out, though, so too late for that plan.


Gee, it sure would be nice if we could Get Rid of all this Micromanagement and get on to debating higher level stuff, but that will have to wait for another day.

Three spaces between cities... Not my usual playstyle, but I will adapt.


- Sirian

 

[gozpel]

3 spaces is AW style that will keep us alive. Against barbs and not AI's I would say

I won't play this until I got all input, because the first phase is the most important in my point of view. And those who knows me, will understand my point of view. Growth is most important.

The green dot is on flat lands, with access of a cow and with BG's, it will be a great spot for workers initially. I don't like those mountains.

What does our imaginary pink dot have? Nothing more and when it lend a cow, it will be a mined one, plus sugar won't be in before border-expansions anyways. I like extra gold and stuff, but here we need to just plop down more towns and what can they do best at their first stage?

Grow! Then we can be fancy.

 

[Bede]

I think g-man's analysis pretty well says it all.

Green dot, red dot, spices and silks in that order, no?

 

[gozpel]

This is my valuation.

So do you guys want granary before next settler? I want another settler myself.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I think the AW approach is probably prudent. Therefore the three tile rule makes a whole lot of sense. I think gozpel's '4' dot is the same as Sirian's pink dot.

I like gozpel's settling priorities.

 

[Bede]

I think the crucial part is whatever builds fastest.

 

[grahamiam]

well, i agree with your settling priorities
you know i want a granery now and why, but for further info, if we go for it now, we will be more than halfway done in 7T (with a pop of 4 (3x4 + 3x5 +1x7 = 34), and completely finished in around 10 or 11T and at size 5, ready to spit out settlers and military (though only regular, they should get plenty of training ). go for settler now, then the granery is much further off (about 14T's after the settler)

 

[grahamiam]

Gee, it sure would be nice if we could Get Rid of all this Micromanagement and get on to debating higher level stuff, but that will have to wait for another day.

ain't that the truth! however, till someone makes it do this:

...Have the program itself automatically look after the pennies, preserve the remainders, carry over the bits and pieces from one item to the next, to clean up all the no-brainer stuff, leaving players free to concentrate on meaningful activities. :coool:

we will continue to have dorks like me calculating spt, fpt, gpt, cpt, bpt, ipt.... for now, i still have a job, but maybe i'll become obsolete when civ4 comes out

 

[Sirian]

I did my share of ?-per-turn calculations. I may be a tad rusty, though. I have only played a few games of Civ3 in the last fifteen months, and I never practiced those QSC tasks. My turns coming at the end should have the game warmed up half-decently by the time I stumble in to the throne room.


- Sirian

 

[gozpel]

You forget that we can work shield-tiles for the granary and make the town grow slower instead. Plus chop a forest. A fair concept that would give me an easy 25 cities by 1000bc and maybe even 30.

I've done it with maps like this, but not on SID And we have to consider aggressive AI settling and barbs.

But I never disagree with the calculators and will build the granary.

And Sirian got his citysite on my dotmap, just because it's logic. I would've swapped a couple of dots, if it wasn't for those damn BG's, which we so much need.

Later on we will need a town NW of the sugar, to give the other towns the 3-step.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

*Irrigating all Cows woul have been wrong; Delhi needed one mined for the shields. Once we have some BGs mined, this can be changed, if we want to share the Cows.
*There was not a real choice which Cow to mine, it had to be on the River. This shaved off 5 turns from Pottery.
*No research was no option without Pottery.
*This has time, but I wouldn't settle on the Silks, better 1 away at the coast.
*I doubt the idea of Archer/Chariots and Settlers will work; by the time we know WC or Wheel, there probably isn't much left to settle.

 

[gozpel]

Pre-turn - Not much, except that I send the settler to green spot.

Someone is wasting worker-turns, by letting 2 roading? Science can go down a couple of notches and we are even.

I forget this and press enter. It must be the suspense

2950bc - I can't believe it, a barb shows up, but no threat for our settler.

We found Bombay -> warrior. The warrior nearby goes to the new town for MP.
Swap tiles around and Bombay can use a cow right away.

Second warrior Bubba scouts E.

Play around with the sliders and find that we can get Pottery in 1 turn at 90%.

2900bc - Geez, another barb shows up E by the spices, Bubba climbs a mountain.

We learned Pottery, go for 10% on Writing. We can afford a gold for that I think, but sometimes zero is better.

Delhi switch to granary.

2850bc - Bubba doesn't stand a chance against the barb and dies. He will be revenged!!!

Move warrior to delhi for MP duties, unhappiness will happen next turn because of growth.

Both workers to forest for chop.

2710bc - Bombay warrior -> worker.

2670bc - The nasty barb wants our workers, I have to send our warrior there to protect.

2630bc Barb evades our workers and the new Bubba kills him! [dance]

Swap tiles around and Bombay to warrior, which will be built next turn with help of the mined cow. Granary next turn in Delhi.

Unhappiness is already a problem and I send the existing warrior from Bombay to Delhi.

This is why I wanted another city on a lux.

2590bc - Delhi granary -> settler.
Bombay warrior -> warrior.

Unfortunately there was no bg under the forest, but I can't let workers waste turns and I let them mine and road the grassland. They should be moved back and mine the BG's when they're done.

1550bc - This is entertaining, barbhorse shows up.

We need a couple of warriors for scouting and protection for settlers, Bombay will cream out a settler or worker in a bit. But we need defense badly, we have barbs N and E.

With all the barbs E, we might as well send next settler to the west, to the silks.

There's a horsebarb in the fog, behind the one you see.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Someone is wasting worker-turns, by letting 2 roading?

This is the one situation I never handle correctly - 1 Worker is already roading, another Worker moves to the tile, and starts one turn later. When is the road done? IIRC in Republic at once, but in Despotism?

 

[grahamiam]

i'm very suprised to not see anyone come by to say hello. got it, play and post tonight.

@doc: worker turns only speed up with Rep. Parts or democracy. Roading while in despotic or republic takes the same amount of time.

 

[dmanakho]

Nice turns Gozpel.... and I hate those barbs already.
Hopefully AIs will show up soon to help us with barbarians.
We would probably have to send a couple of warriors with each settler for now

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

grahamiam:
I'm sure you're correct; that's what you get when you play RaR and unmodded .

Oh, and who do you expect to come by? Us players to comment, or the AI Civs to demand?

 

[grahamiam]

grahamiam:
Oh, and who do you expect to come by? Us players to comment, or the AI Civs to demand?

actually, my comment meant that i'm suprised that the ai, with all those starting units, hasn't passed thru us to get to all those barbs gozpel saw to the east. i'm sure it'll happen soon enough. in the meantime, i plan on just building settlers while getting the spt up so we can get a few escorts as well.

 

[Bede]

Bede wants silk jammies.

With any luck the barbarians are slaughtering AI settlers

Dream on.

But it has been kinda lonely in our corner.
Roster check:

grahamiam - up
dmanahko - on deck
Sir Bugsy
Bede
Sirian
DJMGator13
DocT
gozpel