SINES IV-The Eternal Wait (Preview Thread)

[jeps]

How exactly would a large-scale genocide show up in a nations stats? Would they only go down, or could it be possible to kill the uneducated barbarians, which would in turn bring UP the nations education stat?

 

[Kal'thzar]

I will start a civil war in anyone that takes a nation by proxy

Which makes things even better. What exactly are you complaining about? Empires rise, empires fall!

what I said was that the nation would consolodate, which I don't think should happen. as stated perviously Europe usually has WAY too many EC's and that factor compensates by making such conquests harder. This Nes is more accurate with regards to the east, but I still feel their is a deffciency in modelling empires breaking apart.

 

[das]

Which is where arbitrary moderatorial decisions come in. Plus I'm pretty sure there would be a lot of people working to undermine strong empires, both as rebels and as neighbours.

 

[silver 2039]

I have deterioration...I could randomly cause a plauge, or some such thing.

 

[Shadowbound]

Clean up the stats a little, but overall I'm very happy with the setting.
Maybe getting Strategos to do a snapshot of the world, including the Americas and Asia would help a bit.

As for the rules:
1) I do not believe that punishing players for writing bad stories is a good idea. That's why I don't even try and write them.
2) Age levels are not in the stats
3) Putting down a cost chart at the bottom of the rules for things, as it is not apparent just how much some things cost.
4) Some military units are described as Eastern Roman Legions. Are these UUs?
5) The levels for education are not spelled out under the education section.
6) Culture levels too
7) Go through the whole thing, one paragraph at a time, and clean up grammar and spelling. Also remove things that you don't think apply to this particular NES.

That's all I can find for the moment. I'd post a reservation, but instead I'll merely use my psychic powers to suggest to you all that you don't take my nation.

 

[Azale]

silver, how does the East Roman Empire work btw? Are they vassals to Rome? Does Rome only control foriegn affairs? Is it still an Empire just very very decentralized?

 

[Shadowbound]

The Western and Eastern Roman Empires, I guess, are supposed to technically be single empires (or, two single empires). They just are de facto many nation states who occasionally get together to vote on who gets to spend the most money on whores.

The Eastern and Western Empires can elect new Augustuses, and its the choice of the losers over whether to go to war afterwards or agree with the decision of the other guys.

The Augustus then could demand tribute, or he could just act as a figure-head if he doesn't want to push the loyalty of his subjects too much.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Which is where arbitrary moderatorial decisions come in. Plus I'm pretty sure there would be a lot of people working to undermine strong empires, both as rebels and as neighbours.

I have deterioration...I could randomly cause a plauge, or some such thing.

Of course, although some players might complain because theirs no clear stat link, especially if the collapse of certain empires is for seemingly arbitary reasons.

I think its for that fear by the mods that the above doesn't happen too often.


Regardless. Good Work Silver, go start it up

 

[silver 2039]

Meanwhile, the Eastern Empire also continued its trend of decentralization, though for entirely different reasons from the west. Because of the almost constant pressure created by the Parthians and their successors in the east and the various tribes to the north meant that most Augusti spent virtually their entire lives with their armies on the field. Because of this, as well as because very little of the bureaucratic mechanizations transferred over to the capital of Caesaropolis, most of the governing of the realm was taken over by local rulers who were given the title of Caesar. Unlike in the west, however, while having significant local political power, these eastern Caesars had no military power, as the armies were concentrated almost solely on the border under the authority of the Augusti.

However, because the Augusti and their heirs spent so much of their lives protecting the borders of the realm, there was the continuous threat of a succession crisis as the Augusti and their heirs were in perpetual risk of dying in battle. The fear was that in such a crisis, the various border generals would all strive against one another for the title of Augustus, leaving the border defenseless and the heartlands of the Empire vulnerable. Meanwhile, the Caesars themselves stood little chance of attaining the title in such a scenario as any significant faction of the standing army could easily brush past any levies that the Caesar’s attempted to raise.

It was one of the many reforms of Augustus Julius, himself heirless, that a solution to a possible succession crisis was reached. At the death of an Augustus, it would be the Caesars who would meet to appoint the successor. This successor, however, must be one of the border generals. In this way, both spheres of power in the East, the Caesars and the generals, remained satisfied. The Caesars not only gained the power of appointment of the next Augustus, but they also ensured that the border would remain stable, its armies not wasted in dynastic struggles. In addition, by electing only generals, they ensured that no Augustus would attempt to combine military with political power, threatening their own local political power. The generals ensured that the throne of Augustus would always be held by a military man, that the defense of the borders would always remain a priority. In addition, all generals had, in theory at least, the possibility of ascending to the throne without the risk that warfare brought. In warfare, if one sought the throne but failed, death was the only possible outcome. In this system, however, one could seek the throne and if failed, would still be able to keep their generalship, losing nothing. Lastly, the future Augusti benefited from this arrangement. With their own army combined with the wealth of the united provinces, they were virtually unassailable from civil war. Because of this, the wealth of the East wouldn’t be drained by constant succession crises and so each Augustus would inherit a stronger Empire than they would without this system.

That should answer it.

 

[Azale]

Yes, start now, while I am still online!

@shadowbound, but...it says Thrace is Augustus' personal province. The West Empire is all but gone, so I'm guessing Rome itself rules over the East Roman Empire. This ruling over being a very loose kind of rule.

EDIT: Ahhh, thanks silver!

 

[carmen510]

Gupta Empire: Blue Purple
Capital: Pataliputra
Ruler: Kumaragupta
Government (Efficiency): Caste-system Centralized Monarchy (Efficient)
Culture: Strong, unified culture, flourishing arts, Dominant Hindu influences
Tech level:
Army (Quality): 200 thousands (Better)
Navy (Quality): 60 ships (Better)
Economy (Total/Economy/EC): 16/4/12
Size: 5
Infrastructure: Good
Education: Perfect
Confidence: Loving
Projects:
Description: The Empire is in its golden age, but how long can it last?

I reserve this nation.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Why carman WHY I DON'T WANT TO CIVIL WAR IN INDIA *cries*

But I will do it.

 

[carmen510]

If you do, my army will wipe you out.

 

[JosefStalinator]

I'd love to reserve:

Britannia: Crimson
Capital: Londinium
Ruler:
Government (Efficiency): Bureaucratic Absolute Augustus (Great)
Culture: Strong Britannia-Roman hybrid culture, Officially Mithras, strong Celtic influences in north
Army (Quality): 40 thousands (Great)
Navy (Quality): 30 ships (Better)
Economy (Total/Economy/EC): 5/4/1
Size: 3
Infrastructure: Efficient
Education: Educated
Confidence: Loving
Projects:
Description: Since its refusal to help defend Rome, Britannia has maintained its independence from the Empire, though maintaining Roman culture.

If we can indeed do it at this point.

EDIT: Nope, not yet. But civil war for whoever takes Britannia before me.

 

[Azale]

Silver Said No Reserving. Azale Will Respect No Reservation.

 

[Kal'thzar]

ohhh choice of two civil wars...

Can I reserve civil wars ?

 

[Shadowbound]

The Morrow Shall Respect No Reservation

I can handle the Britannic Civil War, if you would do the Gupta war, Kal.

 

[The Strategos]

No reservations. I'm posting this because I want your opnions on the rules and stats and any changes I could make. I particularly want your opnions on the Economy, and Tech level.

Just noticed, when compiling stats, I forgot to complete Lugii. Sorry about that, their stats should be:

Spoiler Lugii Stats :

Lugii: Dark Purple
Capital: Augusta Vindelicum
Ruler:
Government (Efficiency): Tribal Caesarship (Tolerable)
Culture: Romanized-Germanic elite, some Roman influences and growing Germanic influences, small, but notable Hellenistic influences
Army (Quality): 20 thousands (Normal)
Navy (Quality): None
Economy (Total/Economy/EC): 2/2/0
Size: 2
Infrastructure: Tolerable
Education: Tolerable
Confidence: Tolerating
Projects:
Description: One of the many “Roman” states to be run by “barbarians”

And while I'm at it, the Hun's stats:

Spoiler Hunnic Empire Stats :

Hunnic Empire: Dark Gray (revolts and rebellions)
Capital: ???
Ruler: Three Claimants to the throne: Dengizik, Rugila, Uldin
Government (Efficiency): Tribal Coalition (Imaginary)
Culture: Dominant Hunnish culture, various tribal cultures among allied tribes, minor Hellenistic influences
Army (Quality): Denigizik: 15 thousands (Mighty); Rugila: 30 thousands (Tolerable) Uldin 20 thousands (Good)
Navy (Quality): None
Economy (Total/Economy/EC): 6/3/3
Size: 3
Infrastructure: Pathetic
Education: Illiterate
Confidence: Hateful
Projects:
Description: Oktar the Hun is certainly a name that will be remembered forever, as he defeated the aura of invincibility of the Eastern Roman legions, ascended the throne of the Eastern Roman Empire by force, and united the West and East again under his person. With his death, however, the Hunnic Empire has collapsed into civil war between Oktar’s three sons as well as rebellions by the various tribes. Despite this, Hunnic pride is not dead, and all three of Oktar’s sons claim the throne of the Eastern Roman Empire. If one son should defeat the others, the Hunnic Empire might rise once again.

how do you intend to balance the massive powers that be in the east if they go on a rampage to the west? (this IS a NES).

Don’t think its going to happen. Thee two China’s will be concerned with each other for a while, Gupta has to go through both barbarians and Bazrangids while Bazrangids may be able to pull it off, but they’re not really a “massive powers that be in the east.”

Clean up the stats a little, but overall I'm very happy with the setting.
Maybe getting Strategos to do a snapshot of the world, including the Americas and Asia would help a bit.

Will work on that tonight, though for those who can’t wait, outside Europe/Middle East, things are pretty much like OTL.

4) Some military units are described as Eastern Roman Legions. Are these UUs?

No. These are the famed Eastern Roman Legions. They are NOT under control of the nation they are in. They ARE under direct control of the Augustus of the East (with local control by the various Imperators of the legions of course). Since at this time there is no Augustus of the East, if one is not elected, it is possible that they will merge with the nation they are in, though it is also possible that an ambitious Imperator would march on Caesaropolis (OTL Constantinople) and force the Caesars to make him Augustus.

silver, how does the East Roman Empire work btw? Are they vassals to Rome? Does Rome only control foriegn affairs? Is it still an Empire just very very decentralized?

Eastern and Western Roman Empires are completely separate. If anything, the East is the dominant one, as they have in the past appointed Western Augustii, and very recently returned Marius to the throne of the West. The West is now an Empire only in name, while the East is politically decentralized (hence them showing up as separate nations on the map) though militarily centralized. However, there is currently no Emperor in the East, so things could go a variety of directions in the East at the start of the NES.

The Western and Eastern Roman Empires, I guess, are supposed to technically be single empires (or, two single empires). They just are de facto many nation states who occasionally get together to vote on who gets to spend the most money on whores.

The Eastern and Western Empires can elect new Augustuses, and its the choice of the losers over whether to go to war afterwards or agree with the decision of the other guys.

The Augustus then could demand tribute, or he could just act as a figure-head if he doesn't want to push the loyalty of his subjects too much.

The East and the West are two separate nations and do things two different ways.

In the West, the Augustus is by birth, or, as is more commonly recently, by seizing it militarily. He has as much control over the provinces as the various local Caesar’s allow him, in other words, not much at all. The current Western Augustus, Marius, tried to reverse this trend, and got kicked out for his troubles, only to be reinstated by Eastern Roman Emperor Leo II (better known as Oktar the Hun). Now that his protector is dead, Marius may try again to recreate the Western Roman Empire, but then again, perhaps he has learned his lesson from the last time he tried it.

In the East, the Augustus is more alike an Imperator-in-chief. Technically Thrace is his personal province, though the demands of keeping the vast border secure means that recently the Augustus haven’t spent much time in it. The Eastern Augustus has the power to lead any army in the East he chooses, raise new troops, and is in charge of the settlement of veterans. The local Caesar’s have supreme political authority within their realms and pay taxes/tribute to the Augustus which is used to pay for the armies.

 

[germanicus12]

The Eastern Empire is divided into several nations, these are run by Ceasar's right? If so one is elected to become Augustus and take command of the entire Eastern Empire?

 

[Azale]

Hmm, silver, what's your estimated ETA on this?