Single paraplegic mothers vs. dumb lazy potheads

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

In every healthcare and welfare debate one side claims that the system is abused by freeloaders and that welfare\healthcare goes to people who, if they made better choices, wouldn't need it. This side likes to use the extreme example of the "dumb lazy pothead" who uses welfare payments to buy alcohol and drugs.

Another side claims that welfare\healthcare is used by people who have fallen on hard times at no fault of their own. This side likes to use the the extreme example of the "single paraplegic mother" of three whose husband died in an automobile accident and has to support her children without any job or income.

The question is: What percentage of people fall under the "dumb lazy pothead" category and what percentage of people fall under the "single paraplegic mother" category?

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

meh, I think that the number of people who would die if they didn't get welfare is small.

 

[Che Guava]

Wait...potheads are using healthcare for what now? Is this about the world, or just the US? I thought you folks didn't have public medicine...

 

[JollyRoger]

The dumb lazy potheads are working for a living, albeit, as little as possible to get by. The smart ones are getting a free ride. The smart, nonlazy potheads run their own business and get a more sophisticated and less criticized form of welfare from the government.

 

[Bamspeedy]

This site says there are roughly 253,000 paraplegics in the US.

http://ase.tufts.edu/gradstudy/alumniAlmaMonkey.htm

There are roughly 5,500,000 people on welfare.

http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/news/recipients.htm

I am unaware of any studies for the number of the lazy potheads, as that would be pure estimates at best because it would be hard to prove who these people are.

I wouldn't have a problem at all with welfare if it was given only to these 253,000 paraplegics (4.5% of welfare recipients).

And the paraplegics would qualify for disability, which I believe is a seperate category from welfare.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Wait...potheads are using healthcare for what now? Is this about the world, or just the US? I thought you folks didn't have public medicine...

We have plenty of opportunities for low income people to receive free or low-cost healthcare.

http://dhfs.wisconsin.gov/badgercare/index.htm
http://www.diabetes.org/advocacy-and-legalresources/healthcare/healthinsurance/low-income.jsp
http://www.omhrc.gov/templates/browse.aspx?lvl=2&lvlID=18
http://www.healthyfamilies.ca.gov/hfhome.asp
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidGenInfo/

There are also clinics that are open that will see people at no charge (just google 'free clinics'), which is usually done by doctors from a nearby hospital donating thier time at the clinic one night a week.

Combine that with energy assistance (pays their electric bills), housing subsidies, collecting unemployment or disability (real or faked), welfare payments, etc. people can get by just fine without working. Add in the possibility of then working 'under the table' (somewhere that is paying them in cash, thus not having to pay payroll taxes, so it still looks like they are making no money and still qualify for the government benefits) and they can live quite comfortably.

I knew a single mother who used the badger care to pay for her pills (she ony had to pay $1 for the prescription) and then go to the free clinic for more free pills which she would then abuse those anxiety pills or sell them to others. She also would visit the chiropractor (paid by badger care) because of her so-called back problems, but admitted to me she used it more for the massage, than to cure her faked back pains. Her partying ways from her freeloading, eventually had her lose her daughter (because she was always getting arrested).

 

[Godwynn]

I would like to draw a line in the middle. This does not have to be a black and white argument. Limit the amount of time someone can be on welfare. I believe paraplegics are on Social Security and not welfare (?). Lazy people can be easily motivated when hungry. The paraplegic, unfortunately, will be in his or her condition for life.

 

[skadistic]

I wish I could show you the forum thread from another forum where I ripped into a dumb lazy pothead that was on wellfare ( he called it a grant) and bragged about how he was sticking it to the "man" (read tax payers).
Dumb lazy potheads on wellfare are criminal frauds and should get nothing but jail time for stealing money. I'm very much against wellfare. But I see how it can be needed. It should come with very strict and stringent terms and conditions like drug testing and time limits. Any one who abuses the system should be imprisioned and forced to pay back all the money they fraudulently stole.

 

[JollyRoger]

Any one who abuses the system should be imprisioned and forced to pay back all the money they fraudulently stole.

Isn't prison giving them free room and board on the taxpayer dime? And how do you propose they pay back the money while in prison?

 

[Che Guava]

We have plenty of opportunities for low income people to receive free or low-cost healthcare.

Thanks for the clarification, Bam, I guess it's not so black and white (on the subject of whether there is healthcare stateside I mean)

 

[skadistic]

Isn't prison giving them free room and board on the taxpayer dime? And how do you propose they pay back the money while in prison?

Did I say lock them up for life? Could they pay it when they get out? Could they like many other inmates work while in prison and have that money imeditly with held? And they could even be made to pay back their prison expense when they get out.

 

[Godwynn]

How much does prison work pay? I know it is much lower than minimum wage. I'm not insinuating anything here, just innocently curious.

 

[skadistic]

How much does prison work pay? I know it is much lower than minimum wage. I'm not insinuating anything here, just innocently curious.

A dollar a day or less at most prisons.

 

[Godwynn]

A dollar a day or less at most prisons.

I was thinking they were paid by the hour, like .25 or around there.

 

[skadistic]

I was thinking they were paid by the hour, like .25 or around there.

I'm sure its different on where and what they do but most of what I've read about it points to .75 - 1.25 a day when they work.

 

[Bamspeedy]

How much does prison work pay? I know it is much lower than minimum wage. I'm not insinuating anything here, just innocently curious.

The prison work is usually for prisoners to enjoy 'canteen' items like candy bars, isn't it? (and why the pay rate is so low) I don't think it is intended to pay for thousands of dollars in restitution.

When the girl I knew was in and out of jail every other week, I often heard references to $50/day that goes towards paying off a fine ($1500=30 days in jail). I don't know about the truthfulness of that, as there are plenty of rumors/BS that circulate in the jail amongst the prisoners.

Once the fine has been 'paid', they are released where they are usually put on probation or parole, that almost always require them to get a job, which should then be used to pay restitution (in this case to the welfare agency for the money they fraudently obtained).

 

[mrt144]

arent people who cant work on SS dissability pay, not welfare?

 

[Godwynn]

arent people who cant work on SS dissability pay, not welfare?

Yes, those who have disabilities. The ones who don't and are without a job are on welfare. (? - I think)

 

[mrt144]

Yes, those who have disabilities. The ones who don't and are without a job are on welfare. (? - I think)

would being a paraplegic count as being disabled from working? the reason i ask is to call into question the type of people that use welfare

 

[skadistic]

would being a paraplegic count as being disabled from working? the reason i ask is to call into question the type of people that use welfare

From most jobs yes being a para. would disqualify you from working but not always. If you lost both arms your short. If you worked construction for 20 years and lost both legs and are not qualified for office work your pretty short.