Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
I just picked up PTW. Do I need to download the latest patch (sooo slooow), or can I play right out of the box?
Stormrider
Stormrider
Sirp's Training Day Game for Aspiring Monarchs
- Thread starter Sirp
- Start date
Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
You need the patch, for this and for any successful application of the game without bugs and errors.
Yup, everyone definitely needs the latest PTW patch, 1.14f. On this topic, there has been talk that Firaxis may release another patch sometimes soon. If they do, then players may NOT play the game with that patch.
You have to stick with 1.14f: moving a succession game over from one patch to another is just too hard. It is apparently possible to have two installs of the game, one with the old patch, one with the new. That's something that can be tried if anyone really wants to be able to use the new patch for other games.
-Sirp.
You have to stick with 1.14f: moving a succession game over from one patch to another is just too hard. It is apparently possible to have two installs of the game, one with the old patch, one with the new. That's something that can be tried if anyone really wants to be able to use the new patch for other games.
-Sirp.
Ack! I didn't realize that a new PTW patch, 1.21f has *just* been released. The details are at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=46040
Now since this game hasn't really started yet, I am tempted to restart it, using this current patch. If it was half way through the game we'd keep playing under the 1.14f patch of course, but we haven't even started yet!
There is only one concern: The patch only works with the US version of PTW (but I think most English versions are US version compatible), are any of the players unable to get the patch?
I'm going to look at regenerating a start and posting it soon. All players will have to get the 1.21f patch. If there are any concerns or problems with this, please let me know ASAP.
Really sorry about this guys, we'll get into the game soon, I promise
-Sirp.
Now since this game hasn't really started yet, I am tempted to restart it, using this current patch. If it was half way through the game we'd keep playing under the 1.14f patch of course, but we haven't even started yet!
There is only one concern: The patch only works with the US version of PTW (but I think most English versions are US version compatible), are any of the players unable to get the patch?
I'm going to look at regenerating a start and posting it soon. All players will have to get the 1.21f patch. If there are any concerns or problems with this, please let me know ASAP.
Really sorry about this guys, we'll get into the game soon, I promise
-Sirp.
I hope everyone can get the patch. The one thing that will affect us for sure is "Improved random free tech selection for the Scientific civ trait."
I remember reading a post from MikeB (Firaxis) saying that in the modern age for example you had a 91% chance of pulling Rocketry. I believe the odds were heavily stacked for Monotheism in the Middle ages as well. If it's truely random now that will sure change the flavor of the game.
The old Nationlism slingshot may not be around anymore.
I remember reading a post from MikeB (Firaxis) saying that in the modern age for example you had a 91% chance of pulling Rocketry. I believe the odds were heavily stacked for Monotheism in the Middle ages as well. If it's truely random now that will sure change the flavor of the game.
The old Nationlism slingshot may not be around anymore.
Jason The King
Deity
too slow, couldnt join. When u making another one, sirp?Ok, when I install the patch it crashes my machine. I have tried installing and uninstalling several times, including trying uninstalling PTW and Civilization III and reinstalling from CD and trying to reinstall the patch, but still no go. I have posted a message in the thread introducing the patch asking about this.
However, this game has taken too long to start already and I don't think we should delay any further. It's unfortunate that we can't go with the latest patch, but hopefully they haven't changed *too* much.
If you want to use the latest patch for other purposes, I think it should be possible to either install two copies of Civilization III on one machine, or to apply the older patch over the newer one when you want to play. (i.e. keep the exes for both patches in a directory, when you want to play using 1.14f, run the 1.14f patch. When you want to play using 1.21f, run the 1.21f). However I can't test if this is so for obvious reasons.
If you do play with the 1.21f patch, make sure that when you play this game, you're using the 1.14f patch. You can check this by looking at the number in the bottom left of the title screen.
So, the original start stands. Everyone must have 1.14f. Matt_g, take it away.
Jason: Sorry you didn't get in on this. You're welcome to follow the game and ask questions though. *If* this turns out to be as enjoyable/successful as I hope, another one may start when it's done, but uhmm...that may not be for a while.
EDIT: oh also, if anyone really wants to play with the latest patch right now, and doesn't want to have to swap all the time, then I understand if you want to drop this game and go find other games which are run on the latest patch. Just let me know now so I can find other players to fill up the roster.
-Sirp.
However, this game has taken too long to start already and I don't think we should delay any further. It's unfortunate that we can't go with the latest patch, but hopefully they haven't changed *too* much.
If you want to use the latest patch for other purposes, I think it should be possible to either install two copies of Civilization III on one machine, or to apply the older patch over the newer one when you want to play. (i.e. keep the exes for both patches in a directory, when you want to play using 1.14f, run the 1.14f patch. When you want to play using 1.21f, run the 1.21f). However I can't test if this is so for obvious reasons.
If you do play with the 1.21f patch, make sure that when you play this game, you're using the 1.14f patch. You can check this by looking at the number in the bottom left of the title screen.
So, the original start stands. Everyone must have 1.14f. Matt_g, take it away.
Jason: Sorry you didn't get in on this. You're welcome to follow the game and ask questions though. *If* this turns out to be as enjoyable/successful as I hope, another one may start when it's done, but uhmm...that may not be for a while.
EDIT: oh also, if anyone really wants to play with the latest patch right now, and doesn't want to have to swap all the time, then I understand if you want to drop this game and go find other games which are run on the latest patch. Just let me know now so I can find other players to fill up the roster.
-Sirp.
Here goes. Hopefully I will avoid any 
4000BC: Move worker to the cow. Found Athens on starting tile. Increased vision shows we will have 3 total BG in city radius before clearing any jungle. Research set to Pottery at break even rate. Due in 14. Production set to a Warrior. Made sure the citizen was working the cow tile.
3950BC: Worker starts irrigating.
3900BC: Zzzzzz
3850BC: Zzzzzz
3800BC: Zzzzzz
3750BC: Worker finishes irrigating and starts a road. Tile now pulls 4 food and is timed perfect because Athens needs 4 food to grow next turn. No waste. Warrior completes and another is ordered. I am sending him to the east to check out whether that is coast or a lake over there.
3700BC. Athens grows. Check city screen to make sure that second citizen is working the BG. Warrior 1 tile East. Its coast, not a lake. Will send him south next turn.
3650BC: Warrior moves south.
3600BC: Worker finishes roading the cattle. Sent to the BG east of Athens. Move warrior south. Extra gold from road cut research time on Pottery. Now due in 4.
3550BC: Athens builds warrior, a third one ordered. Sent him west. Warrior #1 sent south again. Worker starts a mine on the BG. There are 2 cattle SE of Athens as well as a lake 1 tile from the coast.
3500BC: Athens expands. Looks like there is coast 2 tiles north of the city. Move warrior #2 1 tile west onto the mountain. Move warrior #1 another tile south. Glad I checked the city screen because the damn governor moved the citizen from the BG to the forest SE of Athens when the borders expanded. Moved him back to the BG.
3450BC: Athens grows to size 3. I am able to drop research on Pottery to 50% and still get it in 2 turns. No way to still get it next turn and keep Athens from rioting. 0.9.1 just doesnt cut it. 1.8.1 would, but at 80% we lose the turn anyways. Raise lux to 10% to keep Athens from rioting next turn. After all this we are making +1 gpt with the sliders at 4.5.1. Move warrior #2 1 tile north. Move warrior #1 southeast.
Oh yeah, I set the third citizen to working a BG. The governors really have a hardon for forest tiles dont they.
3400BC: Athens completes warrior, set to barracks with the intention of changing to a granary next turn when Pottery comes in. Hmmmm, fortify or send him on a quick 2 turn each way jaunt to the mountain south and a little west of Athens to bust the fog in the immediate area of the capitol. If I fortify him I can drop the lux back to zero. Lets see what the other scouts tell me before I make a decision. I hit the W key and move the other scouts. Warrior #2 goes NE and spots a goody hut. I can pop this in 2 turns. Warrior #1 goes SE to the coast and finds more land wrapping around to the north and east. There is also a wheat tile and a river down here as well as another lux. Dont know what that is yet. All I can see is the happy face under the fog.
Decision time. I drop research to 30% and still get pottery next turn. This nets us 1 gold. If I send the third warrior out for 4 turns round trip that will cost 4 gold. If I get barbs out of the goody hut in 2 turns they cant get to Athens before the warrior gets back and since the last turn will be on a road he will be able to enter the city and fortify. I think its worth it so I move him to the mountain due south of the cattle. Ill see if Sirp thinks this is when he reviews my turn.
3350BC: Pottery is discovered. Athens switched to a granary, due in 14. Writing or IW next? Best rate at either is 40 turns without a deficit. If I didnt have to run lux we could get IW in 32 at break even, Writing would still be 40 turns. I want to know where the iron is so we can better plan our expansion. #1 moves 1 tile south. #2 moves NE. #3 moves onto next mountain south and sees a lake or coast 6 tiles SW of Athens with a bunch of plains and a BG between the 2. sliders at 8.1.1 and we are making +3gpt.
3300BC: Warrior #3 heads back to Athens for MP duty. #1 moves SE onto a hill and sees that other lux is another incense.
I was hoping for a different lux. Oh well.
#2 pops the hut and gets barbs. Damn, I almost didnt pop it just for this reason. Now I wish I hadnt. The worker should be done with the mine before he has to retreat to the city if that becomes necessary.
3250BC: 1 of the barbs attacks and kills our warrior. The other 2 are headed towards Athens. Worker finishes the mine and starts a road but I doubt he will be able to finish it due to the barbs.
Warrior #3 1 tile from Athens. #1 moves east.
3200BC: Warrior back in Athens and fortified. Athens grew this turn also but I dont need to adjust the lux due to the MP. Still at 10% lux. 1 of the barbs is on the hill north of the city. The other is swinging around to the west. Citizen #4 set to working a BG. With the mine done, the granary is now due in 7.
3150BC: Warrior #1 moves north onto a hill and spots red borders! They are expanded so that means whoevers capitol in only 11 tiles from ours! This is a bit crowded. Im assuming its Rome but I am not sure. Damn barb that was north of the city doesnt attack. Instead he goes to the open grass NE of the city and next to the worker. The other heads SW and is 2 tiles from the city.
Hmmm, risk attacking, or just leave the warrior fortified and pull the worker back to the city, losing the work on the road? If I win the worker doesnt have to retreat, saving turns spent on that road, but if I lose, Athens will be sacked and the worker has to retreat anyways. Can he be killed in the city? Im not sure on this, but I will assume he can be. I make what Sirp will probably call a move and risk it. Our warrior attacks and wins without losing a single hp! Better to be lucky than good? 
Remembered to up the lux due to MP not being in town just in time. Damn near hit the spacebar. Have to run 30% for 1 turn.
3100BC: Only having 1 scout sucks! Our scout moves east along the border. No contact made yet. The other warrior is sent back into Athens and the last barb moves next to the city. Worker finishes road and moves to the adjacent BG. Lux dropped back to 10%.
3050BC: Barb moves onto the cattle. If I dont attack he will pillage it. Our warrior wins and promotes! Now I have to raise the lux again. Our scout moves east and we make contact with Caesar. He has WC, doesnt have pottery. He already has BW, not that I would get him any closer to IW. No trades possible now. Pottery and all our gold isnt enough for WC, and even if it was I wouldnt do it.
3000BC: Scout moves back to the west. Our vet moves back into the city. He can be fortified next turn. Lux is back to 10%. Right now we are running 10% science with IW due in 33, and making +4 gpt. Going up to break even only shaves 2 turns off of the research.
Summary: I think 5 tiles SE of Athens would be an excellent place for our second city. It would have 2 cattle and 3 BG plus it would be on the coast. Yeah it would waste 2 hills right next to the capitol, but you cant have everything. My exploring pattern leaves something to be desired, though it would have looked better if I hadnt lost that other warrior to the barbs.
4000BC: Move worker to the cow. Found Athens on starting tile. Increased vision shows we will have 3 total BG in city radius before clearing any jungle.
Research set to Pottery at break even rate. Due in 14. Production set to a Warrior. Made sure the citizen was working the cow tile.3950BC: Worker starts irrigating.
3900BC: Zzzzzz
3850BC: Zzzzzz
3800BC: Zzzzzz
3750BC: Worker finishes irrigating and starts a road. Tile now pulls 4 food and is timed perfect because Athens needs 4 food to grow next turn. No waste. Warrior completes and another is ordered. I am sending him to the east to check out whether that is coast or a lake over there.
3700BC. Athens grows. Check city screen to make sure that second citizen is working the BG. Warrior 1 tile East. Its coast, not a lake. Will send him south next turn.
3650BC: Warrior moves south.
3600BC: Worker finishes roading the cattle. Sent to the BG east of Athens. Move warrior south. Extra gold from road cut research time on Pottery. Now due in 4.
3550BC: Athens builds warrior, a third one ordered. Sent him west. Warrior #1 sent south again. Worker starts a mine on the BG. There are 2 cattle SE of Athens as well as a lake 1 tile from the coast.
3500BC: Athens expands. Looks like there is coast 2 tiles north of the city. Move warrior #2 1 tile west onto the mountain. Move warrior #1 another tile south. Glad I checked the city screen because the damn governor moved the citizen from the BG to the forest SE of Athens when the borders expanded. Moved him back to the BG.
3450BC: Athens grows to size 3. I am able to drop research on Pottery to 50% and still get it in 2 turns. No way to still get it next turn and keep Athens from rioting. 0.9.1 just doesnt cut it. 1.8.1 would, but at 80% we lose the turn anyways. Raise lux to 10% to keep Athens from rioting next turn. After all this we are making +1 gpt with the sliders at 4.5.1. Move warrior #2 1 tile north. Move warrior #1 southeast.
Oh yeah, I set the third citizen to working a BG. The governors really have a hardon for forest tiles dont they.
3400BC: Athens completes warrior, set to barracks with the intention of changing to a granary next turn when Pottery comes in. Hmmmm, fortify or send him on a quick 2 turn each way jaunt to the mountain south and a little west of Athens to bust the fog in the immediate area of the capitol. If I fortify him I can drop the lux back to zero. Lets see what the other scouts tell me before I make a decision. I hit the W key and move the other scouts. Warrior #2 goes NE and spots a goody hut. I can pop this in 2 turns. Warrior #1 goes SE to the coast and finds more land wrapping around to the north and east. There is also a wheat tile and a river down here as well as another lux. Dont know what that is yet. All I can see is the happy face under the fog.
Decision time. I drop research to 30% and still get pottery next turn. This nets us 1 gold. If I send the third warrior out for 4 turns round trip that will cost 4 gold. If I get barbs out of the goody hut in 2 turns they cant get to Athens before the warrior gets back and since the last turn will be on a road he will be able to enter the city and fortify. I think its worth it so I move him to the mountain due south of the cattle. Ill see if Sirp thinks this is
when he reviews my turn.3350BC: Pottery is discovered. Athens switched to a granary, due in 14. Writing or IW next? Best rate at either is 40 turns without a deficit. If I didnt have to run lux we could get IW in 32 at break even, Writing would still be 40 turns. I want to know where the iron is so we can better plan our expansion. #1 moves 1 tile south. #2 moves NE. #3 moves onto next mountain south and sees a lake or coast 6 tiles SW of Athens with a bunch of plains and a BG between the 2. sliders at 8.1.1 and we are making +3gpt.
3300BC: Warrior #3 heads back to Athens for MP duty. #1 moves SE onto a hill and sees that other lux is another incense.
I was hoping for a different lux. Oh well.
#2 pops the hut and gets barbs. Damn, I almost didnt pop it just for this reason. Now I wish I hadnt. The worker should be done with the mine before he has to retreat to the city if that becomes necessary.
3250BC: 1 of the barbs attacks and kills our warrior.
The other 2 are headed towards Athens. Worker finishes the mine and starts a road but I doubt he will be able to finish it due to the barbs.Warrior #3 1 tile from Athens. #1 moves east.
3200BC: Warrior back in Athens and fortified. Athens grew this turn also but I dont need to adjust the lux due to the MP. Still at 10% lux. 1 of the barbs is on the hill north of the city. The other is swinging around to the west. Citizen #4 set to working a BG. With the mine done, the granary is now due in 7.
3150BC: Warrior #1 moves north onto a hill and spots red borders! They are expanded so that means whoevers capitol in only 11 tiles from ours! This is a bit crowded. Im assuming its Rome but I am not sure. Damn barb that was north of the city doesnt attack. Instead he goes to the open grass NE of the city and next to the worker. The other heads SW and is 2 tiles from the city.
Hmmm, risk attacking, or just leave the warrior fortified and pull the worker back to the city, losing the work on the road? If I win the worker doesnt have to retreat, saving turns spent on that road, but if I lose, Athens will be sacked and the worker has to retreat anyways. Can he be killed in the city? Im not sure on this, but I will assume he can be. I make what Sirp will probably call a
move and risk it. Our warrior attacks and wins without losing a single hp! Better to be lucky than good? Remembered to up the lux due to MP not being in town just in time. Damn near hit the spacebar. Have to run 30% for 1 turn.
3100BC: Only having 1 scout sucks! Our scout moves east along the border. No contact made yet. The other warrior is sent back into Athens and the last barb moves next to the city. Worker finishes road and moves to the adjacent BG. Lux dropped back to 10%.
3050BC: Barb moves onto the cattle. If I dont attack he will pillage it. Our warrior wins and promotes! Now I have to raise the lux again.
Our scout moves east and we make contact with Caesar. He has WC, doesnt have pottery. He already has BW, not that I would get him any closer to IW. No trades possible now. Pottery and all our gold isnt enough for WC, and even if it was I wouldnt do it.3000BC: Scout moves back to the west. Our vet moves back into the city. He can be fortified next turn. Lux is back to 10%. Right now we are running 10% science with IW due in 33, and making +4 gpt. Going up to break even only shaves 2 turns off of the research.
Summary: I think 5 tiles SE of Athens would be an excellent place for our second city. It would have 2 cattle and 3 BG plus it would be on the coast. Yeah it would waste 2 hills right next to the capitol, but you cant have everything. My exploring pattern leaves something to be desired, though it would have looked better if I hadnt lost that other warrior to the barbs.
Matt's turn is done, and the game is afoot! We've almost got our granary ready to start cranking out settlers, we've survived an early barbarian scare intact, and we've made contact with one of our rivals: the Romans. So far so good!
A good move. Irrigate *before* the road. This is an age-old question: do you irrigate/mine first, or do you build the road first? Usually I build a road first, mainly so that other workers can come and help out with the irrigating/mining, because it gives more flexibility for the worker to flee if in danger once the road is finished, and it allows use of the road immediately.
However, in situations when the extra food or shields could really help, I will mine or irrigate first. At the start of the game is such a situation.
Nope this was fine. You knew it would cost a couple of gold, and you judged it to be worthwhile. It was well thought-out and executed.
This was a little but also a little unlucky. You could have popped a settler, but you got these guys instead. What terrain was the hut on? If on a hill then not so bad, since you know the warrior will be better defended.
However, you chose to build a warrior as Athen's guard instead of a hoplite. This wasn't a bad choice in itself, however seeing that you built a warrior, popping villages near the capital is a bad idea. If you had built a hoplite, then you could much more confidently enter villages.
Note that as the difficulty level goes up, the likelihood of barbarians in villages does too, and your combat advantage against them falls. On Deity, you don't want to pop any villages early on unless you're expansionist. I'm an Epic 4 survivor; anyone who played that game will live in fear of barbarians forever.
Although this is a Monarch training game, I want to impart skills that are useful all the way up to Deity. Although popping the village isn't so bad on Monarch, it would *definitely* be bad on Deity. See the upcoming quiz for ideas on how to deal with villages.
I would have probably done the same thing as you. A worker can be killed in a city, so you'd have had to retreat him back into the wilderness. Then the barbarian could move onto the improvements and you'd have to attack him anyway to stop him pillaging them. Or he could go chasing the worker. Barbarians are more annoying these days. It could have cost us big, but it didn't. We dodged a bullet there.
To be honest, I think you're afraid of the here because uhmm..you're actually having to make decisions that haven't come up in the pre-game discussion! This game isn't designed to be filled with robots who follow a perfect gameplan. You will have to make real decisions, don't be afraid to go with what you think is the best move. I'd much rather you go with what you genuinely think is the best move rather than what you think is the best move to avoid criticism.
It sure does!
Ok, we dodged the bullet. It'd have been better not to have it fired in the first place though.
Ok, so you decided to go for a min-science gambit. But, you went for the cheaper technology, iron working. If you want to go for a 40-turn gambit, you go for a combination of the most expensive technology/the technology you think the AI is the least likely to get.
I can appreciate you wanting to see all the iron, but we'll almost certainly get IW off the AI before the 40 turns is up. So what should you have done? Research IW at max science. But it would still take 40 turns? No it wouldn't. You already saw that if we didn't have to run luxuries we would get it in 32 turns, so you knew we are almost big enough to research it in under 40 turns. Our economy is going to grow substantially over the near future, you should have researched it at the maximum, and as we grew in size, it would have come well down. I'd say we could have had it in 25 turns or so, and probably be the first to get it.
Going for writing in 40 turns would be a not-too-unreasonable option, but missing out on seeing where the iron is for that long is a pretty big disadvantage.
The next player should almost certainly set the science to the maximum. Thankfully your mistake here isn't too bad, since we can just use the surplus you built up to run deficits for a while, and make up the research.
I played a shadow of your turns, before I read your report. I'll probably play a shadow of most people's turns, mainly so I can compare how they went with my shadow. That way there'll be a benchmark to judge against.
Others are welcome to play shadows a little later, but not yet. You're not allowed to play shadows yet because you would discover parts of the map that would give away game information and influence later turns. Once our continent has been discovered, I will rediscuss others playing shadows if they want.
Your internal development was *exactly* the same as mine. I built 2 scouting warriors, then a warrior for guarding. Your worker movement was exactly the same. Good work on that. Something that would have been but a common mistake I think would have been to move the worker onto the incense to hook it up. Hooking up a luxury isn't worth very much this early, and since they're on hills, it'd have taken a long time. Anyone who had done that would have gotten 
Your citizen tile placement was very similiar. Good work on taking them off the forests (and yes, city govenors do like shields too much). However, when the granary was almost complete, I put the citizens back on the forests. I timed it so that the granary would complete one turn before the city would grow. That way, you get the benefits of the granary earlier, having the food box half full. This is a minor optimization that can net you a little extra food. It's worth it though. At the end of your turn, Athens was size 4, growing in 1 turn, with a granary due in 3. At the end of mine, it was size 4, growing in 3, but with the granary due in 2.
Your way, the city grows, and you actually end up completing the granary in 2 turns, due to the extra growth. By the end of the third turn, you'll be size 5 with 6 food in the box, and one turn into your next project.
My way you'll be size 5 with 10 food in the box, and one turn into your next project. You'll also end up with a bonus shield due to the earlier growth, I'll end up with an extra commerce, due to the reduced need for MPP.
Not a big difference, 4 food. Still, the small stuff matters at this stage.
That I'm discussing such a minor nit is a reflection on how great your city management was other than this. It really was very good other than this small thing.
I didn't see any villages in my shadow, let alone pop them, so needless to say I still have 2 scouts in tact, which is obviously better; although you were partly unlucky in this regard.
Overall, your turn gets a B+. Good solid play, definitely good enough play to win on Monarch level.
EDIT: Oh I forgot to comment on your suggested city placement. 5 tiles south-east of Athens. I thought *exactly* the same thing myself. That would be a great place for a city. We can't really get the hills next to the capital unless we have major overlap with the capital and/or sacrifice being on fresh water. The first would be silly, the second would be a huge
-Sirp.
A good move. Irrigate *before* the road. This is an age-old question: do you irrigate/mine first, or do you build the road first? Usually I build a road first, mainly so that other workers can come and help out with the irrigating/mining, because it gives more flexibility for the worker to flee if in danger once the road is finished, and it allows use of the road immediately.
However, in situations when the extra food or shields could really help, I will mine or irrigate first. At the start of the game is such a situation.
3400BC: ... Ill see if Sirp thinks this is
Nope this was fine. You knew it would cost a couple of gold, and you judged it to be worthwhile. It was well thought-out and executed.
This was a little
but also a little unlucky. You could have popped a settler, but you got these guys instead. What terrain was the hut on? If on a hill then not so bad, since you know the warrior will be better defended.However, you chose to build a warrior as Athen's guard instead of a hoplite. This wasn't a bad choice in itself, however seeing that you built a warrior, popping villages near the capital is a bad idea. If you had built a hoplite, then you could much more confidently enter villages.
Note that as the difficulty level goes up, the likelihood of barbarians in villages does too, and your combat advantage against them falls. On Deity, you don't want to pop any villages early on unless you're expansionist. I'm an Epic 4 survivor; anyone who played that game will live in fear of barbarians forever.
Although this is a Monarch training game, I want to impart skills that are useful all the way up to Deity. Although popping the village isn't so bad on Monarch, it would *definitely* be bad on Deity. See the upcoming quiz for ideas on how to deal with villages.
I would have probably done the same thing as you. A worker can be killed in a city, so you'd have had to retreat him back into the wilderness. Then the barbarian could move onto the improvements and you'd have to attack him anyway to stop him pillaging them. Or he could go chasing the worker. Barbarians are more annoying these days. It could have cost us big, but it didn't. We dodged a bullet there.
To be honest, I think you're afraid of the
here because uhmm..you're actually having to make decisions that haven't come up in the pre-game discussion! This game isn't designed to be filled with robots who follow a perfect gameplan. You will have to make real decisions, don't be afraid to go with what you think is the best move. I'd much rather you go with what you genuinely think is the best move rather than what you think is the best move to avoid criticism.It sure does!
Ok, we dodged the bullet. It'd have been better not to have it fired in the first place though.
Ok, so you decided to go for a min-science gambit. But, you went for the cheaper technology, iron working. If you want to go for a 40-turn gambit, you go for a combination of the most expensive technology/the technology you think the AI is the least likely to get.
I can appreciate you wanting to see all the iron, but we'll almost certainly get IW off the AI before the 40 turns is up. So what should you have done? Research IW at max science. But it would still take 40 turns? No it wouldn't. You already saw that if we didn't have to run luxuries we would get it in 32 turns, so you knew we are almost big enough to research it in under 40 turns. Our economy is going to grow substantially over the near future, you should have researched it at the maximum, and as we grew in size, it would have come well down. I'd say we could have had it in 25 turns or so, and probably be the first to get it.
Going for writing in 40 turns would be a not-too-unreasonable option, but missing out on seeing where the iron is for that long is a pretty big disadvantage.
The next player should almost certainly set the science to the maximum. Thankfully your mistake here isn't too bad, since we can just use the surplus you built up to run deficits for a while, and make up the research.
I played a shadow of your turns, before I read your report. I'll probably play a shadow of most people's turns, mainly so I can compare how they went with my shadow. That way there'll be a benchmark to judge against.
Others are welcome to play shadows a little later, but not yet. You're not allowed to play shadows yet because you would discover parts of the map that would give away game information and influence later turns. Once our continent has been discovered, I will rediscuss others playing shadows if they want.
Your internal development was *exactly* the same as mine. I built 2 scouting warriors, then a warrior for guarding. Your worker movement was exactly the same. Good work on that. Something that would have been
but a common mistake I think would have been to move the worker onto the incense to hook it up. Hooking up a luxury isn't worth very much this early, and since they're on hills, it'd have taken a long time. Anyone who had done that would have gotten Your citizen tile placement was very similiar. Good work on taking them off the forests (and yes, city govenors do like shields too much). However, when the granary was almost complete, I put the citizens back on the forests. I timed it so that the granary would complete one turn before the city would grow. That way, you get the benefits of the granary earlier, having the food box half full. This is a minor optimization that can net you a little extra food. It's worth it though. At the end of your turn, Athens was size 4, growing in 1 turn, with a granary due in 3. At the end of mine, it was size 4, growing in 3, but with the granary due in 2.
Your way, the city grows, and you actually end up completing the granary in 2 turns, due to the extra growth. By the end of the third turn, you'll be size 5 with 6 food in the box, and one turn into your next project.
My way you'll be size 5 with 10 food in the box, and one turn into your next project. You'll also end up with a bonus shield due to the earlier growth, I'll end up with an extra commerce, due to the reduced need for MPP.
Not a big difference, 4 food. Still, the small stuff matters at this stage.
That I'm discussing such a minor nit is a reflection on how great your city management was other than this. It really was very good other than this small thing.
I didn't see any villages in my shadow, let alone pop them, so needless to say I still have 2 scouts in tact, which is obviously better; although you were partly unlucky in this regard.
Overall, your turn gets a B+. Good solid play, definitely good enough play to win on Monarch level.
EDIT: Oh I forgot to comment on your suggested city placement. 5 tiles south-east of Athens. I thought *exactly* the same thing myself. That would be a great place for a city. We can't really get the hills next to the capital unless we have major overlap with the capital and/or sacrifice being on fresh water. The first would be silly, the second would be a huge
-Sirp.
Stormrider, you're up! Take the game whenever you can. Matt_g's report was excellent as far as details go. If everyone can do reports that good, I'd be happy. If you don't have the time for *quite* as much detail, I understand, but remember, the less detailed you are, the less I have to critique.
My mistake on the second round being 10 turns, Stormrider take 15 turns.
The roster:
Matt_g <--- just played
Stormrider <--- UP NOW
Sirp <--- on deck
Shaehsa - getting PTW soon!
Wetterlind - getting PTW soon!
Renata - Let's hope she has enough time!
My mistake on the second round being 10 turns, Stormrider take 15 turns.
The roster:
Matt_g <--- just played
Stormrider <--- UP NOW
Sirp <--- on deck
Shaehsa - getting PTW soon!
Wetterlind - getting PTW soon!
Renata - Let's hope she has enough time!
Ok it's time for our next quiz! Matt_g did a very good job of introducing this quiz topic in his turn. The topic is Villages (Huts).
The questions are,
(1) What are the possible outcomes when one enters a village?
(2) Under what circumstances can you be sure that entering a village will not produce barbarians?
Subjectively,
(3) What is a good policy on when to enter villages and when not to?
-Sirp.
The questions are,
(1) What are the possible outcomes when one enters a village?
(2) Under what circumstances can you be sure that entering a village will not produce barbarians?
Subjectively,
(3) What is a good policy on when to enter villages and when not to?
-Sirp.
Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
Matt_g - well done. I am afraid I also can not keep my hands out of the cookie jar (i.e. goody huts).
Sirp - I will play my 15 turns tonight (I am downloading the patch as we type)
Quiz:
1. Settler, conscript warrior, tech, barb, $cash, map, nothing (deserted)
2. I believe that expansionist trait prevents barbs
3. I try not to pop huts to close to unprotected cities/workers. Other than that, I have very little self-control in popping them. I suppose that will change when I get burned more frequently at the higher levels.
I will post my turns later.
Stormrider
Sirp - I will play my 15 turns tonight (I am downloading the patch as we type)
Quiz:
1. Settler, conscript warrior, tech, barb, $cash, map, nothing (deserted)
2. I believe that expansionist trait prevents barbs
3. I try not to pop huts to close to unprotected cities/workers. Other than that, I have very little self-control in popping them. I suppose that will change when I get burned more frequently at the higher levels.
I will post my turns later.
Stormrider
Just popping in for a look-see before I go incommunicado for a couple of days.
Yay, Matt! No. 
That SE city site needs a temple to get the cows, right? Hard to tell on my screen, too dark. (I could adjust the brightness, but that would take effort, and I just got out of bed.) At any rate, that means we'll need ceremonial burial before too much longer.
As to the quiz:
1) barbarians, maps, 25g (I've seen 50g in late-popped huts but don't know the criteria), tech, nothing, settler, conscript warrior. I guess in PTW you can get an advanced tribe (city), too? And someone somewhere mentioned getting an army, but that must be very rare.
2) If you're expansionist, you'll never get barbs. I think I remember reading you don't get barbs if you haven't built any military yet, i.e. you pop the first hut with your worker, but I'm not positive. (Never dared to try, lol.) And again I *think* that popping a hut by founding a city immediately adjacent to it will not give barbs.
3) I have no really good feel for this at this level - I was playing warlord level a handful of games ago and chieftain 5 or 10 games before that. I've never tried monarch. I suppose I'll have to start avoiding huts close to home until I have some extra military lying around. Huts on defensible terrain are obviously safer. Other than that, I'm not sure.
Renata <--- will check in again after the weekend
PS Sirp (or anyone) if you know how to prepare screenshots for upload using Paintshop Pro could you email me with directions? I know how to take screenshots and paste them in, but after that, that program just baffles me. Thanks.
Yay, Matt! No
. That SE city site needs a temple to get the cows, right? Hard to tell on my screen, too dark. (I could adjust the brightness, but that would take effort, and I just got out of bed.
) At any rate, that means we'll need ceremonial burial before too much longer.As to the quiz:
1) barbarians, maps, 25g (I've seen 50g in late-popped huts but don't know the criteria), tech, nothing, settler, conscript warrior. I guess in PTW you can get an advanced tribe (city), too? And someone somewhere mentioned getting an army, but that must be very rare.
2) If you're expansionist, you'll never get barbs. I think I remember reading you don't get barbs if you haven't built any military yet, i.e. you pop the first hut with your worker, but I'm not positive. (Never dared to try, lol.) And again I *think* that popping a hut by founding a city immediately adjacent to it will not give barbs.
3) I have no really good feel for this at this level - I was playing warlord level a handful of games ago and chieftain 5 or 10 games before that. I've never tried monarch. I suppose I'll have to start avoiding huts close to home until I have some extra military lying around. Huts on defensible terrain are obviously safer. Other than that, I'm not sure.
Renata <--- will check in again after the weekend
PS Sirp (or anyone) if you know how to prepare screenshots for upload using Paintshop Pro could you email me with directions? I know how to take screenshots and paste them in, but after that, that program just baffles me. Thanks.
Welllll I'm suppose to leave for work in 20 mins and I am sitting here in a towel, so this will be fairly short.
To anyone that doesn't know, I am sooo new to this game. I did a TDG with Sirp for Warlords. It was just him and I cuz noone else signed up! That's one of a couple of games I have played to the finish. I plan on staying in this game unless/until I start to slow things down too much then I will drop out and let the game continue =o) So, if I ask what seem to be basic questions, that is why!
As for the quiz.. I only knew about getting gold or a technology from a village. As far as getting (or not getting) barbs from a village... I only knew that you could get barbs from reading this thread so I don't know =o)
Lastly, reading Matt_g's report let me know how much I *don't* know! Leave it to me to miss some very basic concepts =o) I'm not sure how Matt_g figured out where to put the sliders. Now the slider has always given me trouble... I have dreams about it! Ask Sirp! At any rate, I never realized you could 'predict' what would happen on your next turn =o) If someone would please take the time out to explain it to me, I'd appreciate it.
TIA for your patience!
To anyone that doesn't know, I am sooo new to this game. I did a TDG with Sirp for Warlords. It was just him and I cuz noone else signed up! That's one of a couple of games I have played to the finish. I plan on staying in this game unless/until I start to slow things down too much then I will drop out and let the game continue =o) So, if I ask what seem to be basic questions, that is why!
As for the quiz.. I only knew about getting gold or a technology from a village. As far as getting (or not getting) barbs from a village... I only knew that you could get barbs from reading this thread so I don't know =o)
Lastly, reading Matt_g's report let me know how much I *don't* know! Leave it to me to miss some very basic concepts =o) I'm not sure how Matt_g figured out where to put the sliders. Now the slider has always given me trouble... I have dreams about it! Ask Sirp! At any rate, I never realized you could 'predict' what would happen on your next turn =o) If someone would please take the time out to explain it to me, I'd appreciate it.
TIA for your patience!
If you're talking about rioting, what you need to do, basically, is when a city grows, check your F1 screen. (Conversely, you could check the city itself, but the lux slider is on the F1 screen, so it's easier that way.) You get one turn of leeway with an unhappy-citizen excess before your city riots. So if you see that, for instance, Athens now has one happy, one content and two unhappy citizens, you know it's about to riot. You then move the lux slider up as high as necessary to to get the happy citizens at least equal to the unhappy.
That's about it. It takes practice to keep on top of, but isn't hard once you've done it a few times.
Renata
That's about it. It takes practice to keep on top of, but isn't hard once you've done it a few times.
Renata
Shaesha, Renanta pretty well covered it. Main thing to remember is that content citizens are neutral. Just pretend they aren't even there. If you have more unhappy than happy it will riot.
Sirp, about the timing on the granary build, I know better than this and spaced it out.
I hate it when that happens.
BTW the hut was on a jungle tile, N,N,NW of Athens.
Question for you. That spot 5 tiles SE. How do you know you will get the benefit of the fresh water in the city, i.e. not need an aquaduct? I have never been sure with lakes, and I believe I got burned by this once in one of my first games (1.21f) regular Civ3.
Sirp, about the timing on the granary build, I know better than this and spaced it out.
I hate it when that happens.
BTW the hut was on a jungle tile, N,N,NW of Athens.
Question for you. That spot 5 tiles SE. How do you know you will get the benefit of the fresh water in the city, i.e. not need an aquaduct? I have never been sure with lakes, and I believe I got burned by this once in one of my first games (1.21f) regular Civ3.
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