Sirp's Training Day Game for Aspiring Monarchs
- Thread starter Sirp
- Start date
A very good turn overall, other than the 
with the misused leader. You completely repelled the Roman attack, and then took the battle to them, capturing three of their cities, denying them of the horse and incense, and also the saltpeter.
Good work rushing the library in Antium. You should have done the same in Pisae, and you should have kept starving both cities. With cultural expansion and starved down to size 1, and garrissoned by a few troops, Antium will have *no* chance of flipping.
Good work also with the musket man upgrade in our border cities. However, I notice we're building a musket man in Argos. Why? I virtually never build musket men, and we especially shouldn't as Greece, since we have plenty of hoplites lying around. They cost almost as much as knights, and can do so little in comparison. Especially when it's doubtful we'll be on the defensive again, far better only to get musket men by upgrading and to build knights.
Herekleia has a tax man running. Why on earth is this?
I agree that the four lake cities are kinda frustrating to manage, but it's something that has to be done. Also, we're underdeveloped in some areas. Argos has citizens working on two unimproved hills. That's 4 shields per turn being wasted right there.
Now, do you notice how we're already down to a +69gpt surplus, with the ending of our golden age, and the increase in tech prices? It'd have been good if we could have saved a little more cash. We have 2727 in our coffers. Techs are going to get more expensive, and our surplus is going to become a deficit soon, probably before the Industrial Age, if we keep doing 4 turn research, which is precisely what we want to do.
It would be excellent if our coffers were large enough to guarantee 4 turn research from here on out, but they're not quite that full.
I'm really divided as to whether we should try to build every Wonder, or if we should go all-out for knights (and then cavalry) and hope to get them through Great Leaders. I'm leaning toward the latter approach. Tying up our cities with so many Wonders being built will greatly lessen our ability to build troops. We said we were going to do some warmongering, so let's warmonger! I suggest to Stormrider that Sistine's goes ahead, while Smith's is cancelled, and changed for knights. Lots of knights. I'm not sure about Delphi and Magellan's. We could keep building that since it is a good Wonder for us to have.
I'm also not sure how long we want to prosecute this war with Rome for. They look pretty gassed, so we might be able to finish them completely now. Certainly we should take Hispalis, and likely push on to Rome and Pompeii too. That mountain between Rome and Antium is a tactical point which you can camp on before attacking, Stormrider.
Getting Byzantium and Brundisium - the cities on the island - for peace would be a good option, but perhaps we'll just put Rome to rest now. See how things go.
Good luck Stormrider!
-Sirp.
with the misused leader. You completely repelled the Roman attack, and then took the battle to them, capturing three of their cities, denying them of the horse and incense, and also the saltpeter. Good work rushing the library in Antium. You should have done the same in Pisae, and you should have kept starving both cities. With cultural expansion and starved down to size 1, and garrissoned by a few troops, Antium will have *no* chance of flipping.
Good work also with the musket man upgrade in our border cities. However, I notice we're building a musket man in Argos. Why? I virtually never build musket men, and we especially shouldn't as Greece, since we have plenty of hoplites lying around. They cost almost as much as knights, and can do so little in comparison. Especially when it's doubtful we'll be on the defensive again, far better only to get musket men by upgrading and to build knights.
Herekleia has a tax man running. Why on earth is this?
I agree that the four lake cities are kinda frustrating to manage, but it's something that has to be done. Also, we're underdeveloped in some areas. Argos has citizens working on two unimproved hills. That's 4 shields per turn being wasted right there.
Now, do you notice how we're already down to a +69gpt surplus, with the ending of our golden age, and the increase in tech prices? It'd have been good if we could have saved a little more cash. We have 2727 in our coffers. Techs are going to get more expensive, and our surplus is going to become a deficit soon, probably before the Industrial Age, if we keep doing 4 turn research, which is precisely what we want to do.
It would be excellent if our coffers were large enough to guarantee 4 turn research from here on out, but they're not quite that full.
I'm really divided as to whether we should try to build every Wonder, or if we should go all-out for knights (and then cavalry) and hope to get them through Great Leaders. I'm leaning toward the latter approach. Tying up our cities with so many Wonders being built will greatly lessen our ability to build troops. We said we were going to do some warmongering, so let's warmonger! I suggest to Stormrider that Sistine's goes ahead, while Smith's is cancelled, and changed for knights. Lots of knights. I'm not sure about Delphi and Magellan's. We could keep building that since it is a good Wonder for us to have.
I'm also not sure how long we want to prosecute this war with Rome for. They look pretty gassed, so we might be able to finish them completely now. Certainly we should take Hispalis, and likely push on to Rome and Pompeii too. That mountain between Rome and Antium is a tactical point which you can camp on before attacking, Stormrider.
Getting Byzantium and Brundisium - the cities on the island - for peace would be a good option, but perhaps we'll just put Rome to rest now. See how things go.
Good luck Stormrider!
-Sirp.
Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
Got it. Should post tonight...
Thanks.Originally posted by Sirp
A very good turn overall, other than the
On the leader, when I realized what a bonehead move I had pulled, I spent about 15 minutes 
then went and 
So you go straight from pikes to rifles with the occassional upgrade to muskets eh? Good to know. I have always built muskets. One more thing I have learned.
Hmmm, I hadn't caught this. It must have grown and not had a free tile put the citizen on. I tend to neglect my city management when I am warring. Very bad habit, I know.
Yeah, I went a little overboard rushing partially completed military. We should have had at least 3400 to 3600 in the bank. To bad Wall Street is now in the Industrial era. That would really help, but I must admit, it is more realistic where it is now.
JMO, but I agree. A domination victory should be fairly quick and easy to achieve.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Wait, I am here
. I have not droped. I am still here. Please let me get to the game. Sorry about the Late Reply since I had to take care of a Situation in the MSDG (Dont ask, its personal)
Nooooooo, Ive got the save, Ive Got the save. Sorry for the Late delay
Nooooooooooooo . 
Well Ive learned my lesson, Always check this Thread, I just hope that I can get a Second chance and, if it is possible, someone switch positions with me so I can get to play.Sirp:
Just saw your post in the 'To old to play" thread. You're only 22 eh? I would have guessed you were older than that. Of course that could be because it feels wierd to realize I am learning Civ from someone who is young enough to be my son. 
Not a knock, not by any means. If I had been playing for 10 years like you have, I wouldn't need this TDG. I have had the game for about a year but only played 2 or 3 games at first. Then RL got to be a bear and I didn't touch it for almost 8 months. Just picked it up again a couple of months ago and this SG is probably my 8th game overall.
BTW I am 42.
Cheers,
Matt
Just saw your post in the 'To old to play" thread. You're only 22 eh? I would have guessed you were older than that. Of course that could be because it feels wierd to realize I am learning Civ from someone who is young enough to be my son.
Not a knock, not by any means. If I had been playing for 10 years like you have, I wouldn't need this TDG. I have had the game for about a year but only played 2 or 3 games at first. Then RL got to be a bear and I didn't touch it for almost 8 months. Just picked it up again a couple of months ago and this SG is probably my 8th game overall.
BTW I am 42.
Cheers,
Matt
I'm sorry, but the rule is 24 hours to say "I got it", and then 48 hours to play. The idea of playing a succession game, and especially a training day game is that you're interested enough in the game to follow it closely. If you don't post within 24 hours of the previous turn, and especially if you haven't posted since your last turn, well you're going to be skipped, especially when there are other players who are ready to go.
If you know that you might not be around, let us know in advance and you'll get special consideration. Renata took longer than 48 hours (I think) to play her last turn, but it was fine because she let us know in advance that that was the situation.
-Sirp.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
This Time I will Follow it Closely. Sorry . I guess I dont get Special Consideration 
.
Yeah I missed by a couple of hours. Would've been on time if my boss hadn't decided to make me do actual work on Thursday, but you know how these things go. 
Speaking of missing turns and such - I may have to skip the next turn as well (should be the last time) if it comes up before Wednesday. As usual, will keep you all updated.
Renata
Speaking of missing turns and such - I may have to skip the next turn as well (should be the last time) if it comes up before Wednesday. As usual, will keep you all updated.
Renata
Well thanks; I find it gratifying to be recognized to be good at a game that is commonly played by people many years older than me. I haven't exactly been playing it for ten years straight btw, I barely even touched Civilization II at all, after being burnt out on Civilization I.
I'm afraid you don't. I always try to treat everyone playing the same.
Yeah these bosses really get unreasonable sometimes don't they? You'd think they were paying us or something
Being a computer programmer with a non-technical boss is great. He never has a clue if I've done any work or not
Well I think you're just afraid of getting
Let us know how it turns out
-Sirp.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Antisipates a Quiz or a Stragity lesson to take his mind of of the missing 10 turns
Sirp, Do you have any Stragity Lesson on say, How to reach and maintain a positive Gold per Turn income.
Sirp, Do you have any Stragity Lesson on say, How to reach and maintain a positive Gold per Turn income
.CivGeneral: I suggest you read this thread to get advice on most things. However, I would suggest you're asking the wrong question, assuming that a positive gold per turn income was a good idea. If you read early on in the game, you will see that that's not always a goal.
-Sirp.
-Sirp.
Yep, I think musketmen are *way* overpriced for the benefit they provide. See this thread for my opinion on them.
It goes even more for the Greeks. 20 shields for a unit with 3 defense, or 60 shields for one with 4 defense? Hmm....
-Sirp.
Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
Before I post my turn.
Once you get gunpowder, hoplites are no longer available. Therefore do not whip or weed me for building muskets- I just did not have enough hoplites to garrison the entire Roman Empire.
Oh yeah, I opened a 2 liter bottle of whoop-@ss on Rome.
Once you get gunpowder, hoplites are no longer available. Therefore do not whip or weed me for building muskets- I just did not have enough hoplites to garrison the entire Roman Empire.
Oh yeah, I opened a 2 liter bottle of whoop-@ss on Rome.
Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
As you can tell from the title, I accidentally conquered the mainland Roman empire.
0) 800 AD
Starve Antium, Knight kill horse - no dmg, Caesars Bane (1 dmg) - kill longbow
Lugdunum - move 4 knights to mtn outside Hispalis
Argos - switch musket to knight
heraklia - no more taxman
Athens switch to knight
Mobilize from Pisae towards Rome
move workers towards argos hills
IT) We lost our supply of ivory?
Built lots of knights. Set for more knights and muskets to defend new holdings
Rome sorties longbow / horse into our empire
1) 810 AD
Take hispalis with knights - only one wounded (no resistance). starve Roman cities
Kill longbow with leftover knight from hispalis assault
Leaderfish (nothing) elite mi ->kills roman horse
move many knights towards rome
workers work
Left Corinth's new knight fortified outside of Corinth in case of Bab aggression (I have had many bad experiences with them in the past)
Rome will offer 17gpt and monarchy for peace - not yet my Latin friend
IT) Chemistry -> Metalurgy - if we are warmongers, let's research war (I usually would have gone for physics) both at 4
2) 820 AD
ROME falls - 3gp 3 resistors --> Ravenna new roman capital
1st Knight 3 dmg -> kills spear
2nd Knight 2 dmg -> kills spear
3rd Knight 2 dmg -> kills spear
4th Knight dies -> redlines last spear
5th Knight 0 dmg -> kills spear
Pompeii falls with last 2 knights from rome campaign. 1 Resistor
Caesars bane moves up to capture 2 roman workers outside of pompeii
Set rome/pompeii for libararies
IT) Build infrastructure - more infrastructure / knights
3) 830 AD
Leaderfish against roman horse - horse killed, no leader
Ready knights for assault on Neapolis.
Rome will still not give up more than one of the island cities.
IT Rome / Pompeii stop resistance - put on population diet. Everyone starts Leo's. We finish Sistine in Athens - set to Smith (can change)
4) 840 AD
Take Neapolis - 2 resistors
1st Knight 2 dmg, now elite -> kills spear
2nd Knight 0 dmg -> kills spear
3rd Knight 0 dmg -> kills Longbow
Rest of Knights sent to attack Ravenna next turn
Rome will still not give up more than one of the island cities
IT Roman Longbow from Ravenna redlines vet knight
5) 850 AD
Realized I got a little too caught up in warmongering. I rushed libararies in all newly
captureed roman cities
Take Ravenna - 3 resistors
1st E Knight 0 dmg, kills spear
2nd E Knight (3/5) goes down to 1/5 retreats
3rd Knight 0 dmg -> kills spear
Take Veii (and Great Wall)- 2 resistors
1st Knight 2 dmg -> kills spear
2nd Knight 1 dmg -> kills spear
3rd Knight 0 dmg -> kills spear
IT) Metallurgy -> Mil Tradition in 4 and making our new found Great Wall obsolete
6) 860 AD
Take Cumae - 2 resistors
1st Knight 3 dmg retreats (no damage to spear)
2nd Knight 2 dmg -> kills spear
3rd Knight Caesar's Bane -> kills spear
Switch Athens to Bach as we have close to 2 dozen knights
After libraries are built, I have switched roman territories to muskets for defense, except for a Caravel to take roman island cities
All Roman offense knights are resting
Rome is done for - we can have them off the map in 5-6 turns.
7) 870 AD
Move forces to prepare for taking of virconium
War weariness - up lux to 10%, science down by 10% - Mil Trad in 4
rush caravel and move 2 Knights / 1 MI to load next turn
IT Roman longbow redlines vet knight outside of Virc. Sparta musket -> Cannon
8) 880 AD
Still rushing libraries in newly pacified roman cities.
Virc taken / 2 workers captured
1st Knight 3 dmg retreats (no damage to spear)
2nd Knight killed
3rd Knight (3 dmg) -> Kills spear
4th Knight (1 dmg) -> kills spear
Assault on Lutitia fails (1 knight redlined and one spear killed)
Unload troops next to Byzantium from caravel
IT) Hispalis culture expands, pops hut on roman island and Barbs show up - ain't life funny that way?
9) 890 AD
Lutitia taken - Rome off mainland - worker taken. No one died (Greek that is)
Byzantium assault fails - Spear / Longbow killed for them, our MI dies, but both knights are now Elite.
IT) 2 Roman galleys off of our West coast!!
10) 900 AD
Took Byzantium
3 Knights ready to load caravel to get last roman city
Summary)
Rome. What else can I say? I originally was going to take a city or two. However, with knights vs. spears (no dreaded legions), Rome fell apart like a cheap suit. I hope no one minds, but I was left so many knights, I could not stop my self from the conquest of Rome. They lost 10 cities and 20-30 units, we lost 2 knights and a MI
It was a very disappointing war in terms of leaders (none). Plus only a few units went elite
3 Knights ready to load caravel to get last roman city. Rome will make peace for all of his gold, Monarchy, maps, etc..
I spent about a 1000 gp (should make some up this turn) to rush libraries in roman cities.
* 2 knights fortified outside corinth as Bab busters
* 2 Knights in range of west coast if romans in galleys land
* Workers on iron by sparta can mine next turn
* Northern jungle all but cleared.
* Irrigation brought up into the Choke province.
Need defense in Rome province and this will free up some knights to take out the Aztecs (or Babs)
Mil Trad next turn - DO NOT FORGET TO ADJUST SLIDER.
I probably did not need 10% lux, but I hate having to trade 2 lux to get 1.
Game
0) 800 AD
Starve Antium, Knight kill horse - no dmg, Caesars Bane (1 dmg) - kill longbow
Lugdunum - move 4 knights to mtn outside Hispalis
Argos - switch musket to knight
heraklia - no more taxman
Athens switch to knight
Mobilize from Pisae towards Rome
move workers towards argos hills
IT) We lost our supply of ivory?
Built lots of knights. Set for more knights and muskets to defend new holdings
Rome sorties longbow / horse into our empire
1) 810 AD
Take hispalis with knights - only one wounded (no resistance). starve Roman cities
Kill longbow with leftover knight from hispalis assault
Leaderfish (nothing) elite mi ->kills roman horse
move many knights towards rome
workers work
Left Corinth's new knight fortified outside of Corinth in case of Bab aggression (I have had many bad experiences with them in the past)
Rome will offer 17gpt and monarchy for peace - not yet my Latin friend
IT) Chemistry -> Metalurgy - if we are warmongers, let's research war (I usually would have gone for physics) both at 4
2) 820 AD
ROME falls - 3gp 3 resistors --> Ravenna new roman capital
1st Knight 3 dmg -> kills spear
2nd Knight 2 dmg -> kills spear
3rd Knight 2 dmg -> kills spear
4th Knight dies -> redlines last spear
5th Knight 0 dmg -> kills spear
Pompeii falls with last 2 knights from rome campaign. 1 Resistor
Caesars bane moves up to capture 2 roman workers outside of pompeii
Set rome/pompeii for libararies
IT) Build infrastructure - more infrastructure / knights
3) 830 AD
Leaderfish against roman horse - horse killed, no leader
Ready knights for assault on Neapolis.
Rome will still not give up more than one of the island cities.
IT Rome / Pompeii stop resistance - put on population diet. Everyone starts Leo's. We finish Sistine in Athens - set to Smith (can change)
4) 840 AD
Take Neapolis - 2 resistors
1st Knight 2 dmg, now elite -> kills spear
2nd Knight 0 dmg -> kills spear
3rd Knight 0 dmg -> kills Longbow
Rest of Knights sent to attack Ravenna next turn
Rome will still not give up more than one of the island cities
IT Roman Longbow from Ravenna redlines vet knight
5) 850 AD
Realized I got a little too caught up in warmongering. I rushed libararies in all newly
captureed roman cities
Take Ravenna - 3 resistors
1st E Knight 0 dmg, kills spear
2nd E Knight (3/5) goes down to 1/5 retreats
3rd Knight 0 dmg -> kills spear
Take Veii (and Great Wall)- 2 resistors
1st Knight 2 dmg -> kills spear
2nd Knight 1 dmg -> kills spear
3rd Knight 0 dmg -> kills spear
IT) Metallurgy -> Mil Tradition in 4 and making our new found Great Wall obsolete
6) 860 AD
Take Cumae - 2 resistors
1st Knight 3 dmg retreats (no damage to spear)
2nd Knight 2 dmg -> kills spear
3rd Knight Caesar's Bane -> kills spear
Switch Athens to Bach as we have close to 2 dozen knights
After libraries are built, I have switched roman territories to muskets for defense, except for a Caravel to take roman island cities
All Roman offense knights are resting
Rome is done for - we can have them off the map in 5-6 turns.
7) 870 AD
Move forces to prepare for taking of virconium
War weariness - up lux to 10%, science down by 10% - Mil Trad in 4
rush caravel and move 2 Knights / 1 MI to load next turn
IT Roman longbow redlines vet knight outside of Virc. Sparta musket -> Cannon
8) 880 AD
Still rushing libraries in newly pacified roman cities.
Virc taken / 2 workers captured
1st Knight 3 dmg retreats (no damage to spear)
2nd Knight killed
3rd Knight (3 dmg) -> Kills spear
4th Knight (1 dmg) -> kills spear
Assault on Lutitia fails (1 knight redlined and one spear killed)
Unload troops next to Byzantium from caravel
IT) Hispalis culture expands, pops hut on roman island and Barbs show up - ain't life funny that way?
9) 890 AD
Lutitia taken - Rome off mainland - worker taken. No one died (Greek that is)
Byzantium assault fails - Spear / Longbow killed for them, our MI dies, but both knights are now Elite.
IT) 2 Roman galleys off of our West coast!!
10) 900 AD
Took Byzantium
3 Knights ready to load caravel to get last roman city
Summary)
Rome. What else can I say? I originally was going to take a city or two. However, with knights vs. spears (no dreaded legions), Rome fell apart like a cheap suit. I hope no one minds, but I was left so many knights, I could not stop my self from the conquest of Rome. They lost 10 cities and 20-30 units, we lost 2 knights and a MI
It was a very disappointing war in terms of leaders (none). Plus only a few units went elite
3 Knights ready to load caravel to get last roman city. Rome will make peace for all of his gold, Monarchy, maps, etc..
I spent about a 1000 gp (should make some up this turn) to rush libraries in roman cities.
* 2 knights fortified outside corinth as Bab busters
* 2 Knights in range of west coast if romans in galleys land
* Workers on iron by sparta can mine next turn
* Northern jungle all but cleared.
* Irrigation brought up into the Choke province.
Need defense in Rome province and this will free up some knights to take out the Aztecs (or Babs)
Mil Trad next turn - DO NOT FORGET TO ADJUST SLIDER.
I probably did not need 10% lux, but I hate having to trade 2 lux to get 1.
Game
I was hoping you would feel that way.
Sounds like an awesome turn StormRider!
Edit: When you get the save uploaded, I think I might play a shadow of Shaesha's turn and do some ummm..... *cough* ummm..... testing, yeah that's the word, on Monty.
Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
I just attached the game file to my turn write-up
Stormrider
Stormrider
Stormrider, great work taking out Rome!
I noticed you didn't take Lutetia on your first turn of attacking it. You should always try to take a city on the first turn of attacking; doing otherwise is costly and indicates you didn't take enough troops along and/or were impatient (and maybe just unlucky).
The other thing you did wrong was having our luxuries at 10%. Considering our empire is twice as big as anyone else's, it's no wonder that they want alot to do a trade with us. Send them gpt, lots of luxuries, or even iron or horses! We'll probably want an ally on the other continent, so make one by making them a trading partner. The Iroquois could do with some iron, and the luxuries they'll give us in exchange will help us immensely. Then we can sign them to a military alliance against one of the other civs there and start a war fueled by our iron supplies.
It's costing us over 70gpt to have luxuries at 10%.
I'm really not sure about switching Athens over. When you're going for a Domination/Conquest victory, you really can't have too many knights
If we had 30+ cavalry, we could prosecute a war against both Babylon and Azteca simultaneously. But, the Wonder will help us alot too.
Good turn though; very well done
-Sirp.
I noticed you didn't take Lutetia on your first turn of attacking it. You should always try to take a city on the first turn of attacking; doing otherwise is costly and indicates you didn't take enough troops along and/or were impatient (and maybe just unlucky).
The other thing you did wrong was having our luxuries at 10%. Considering our empire is twice as big as anyone else's, it's no wonder that they want alot to do a trade with us. Send them gpt, lots of luxuries, or even iron or horses! We'll probably want an ally on the other continent, so make one by making them a trading partner. The Iroquois could do with some iron, and the luxuries they'll give us in exchange will help us immensely. Then we can sign them to a military alliance against one of the other civs there and start a war fueled by our iron supplies.
It's costing us over 70gpt to have luxuries at 10%.
I'm really not sure about switching Athens over. When you're going for a Domination/Conquest victory, you really can't have too many knights
If we had 30+ cavalry, we could prosecute a war against both Babylon and Azteca simultaneously. But, the Wonder will help us alot too.
Good turn though; very well done
-Sirp.
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